Cubed...

Know that most of what she's going to say is going to be fog babble, nonsensical crap that may be mean, spiteful, foolish or just not make sense. Most of it will be the utterance of words to justify her actions.

Train yourself not to hang on every word, nor allow yourself to be reactive to everything she says. Listen carefully, and respond to the parts that may have some base in reality. Otherwise, either don't respond, or just chuckle and wonder aloud how YOU were once the love of her life and are "amazed" that that has been lost. Not in a mean spirit, not to mock or make fun of her, but to repeat her own words back to her then display utter disbeleif, can show her how fogged she is.

Hang in there, and read, read, read, and learn all you can...

SD

You still need to contact the other man's wife.

Well yesterday she wanted to go get the dr phil relationship rescue book and workbooks. We did. We both started our workbooks, they're supposed to be private. I asked her why she decided to stay with me and try. She said she felt she owed it to me. I guess that shows either a degree of respect or pity, dont know which one.

It doesn't matter, Cubed, why they stay. What matters is that they DO stay, which gives you the chance to Plan A until she's for sure in recovery. Your outlook seems pretty positive, but remember this is a roller coaster. There will be ups and downs...

SD

FVCK!!! My wife is a lying piece of trash. I asked for his phone number today. I was going to check to see if they had been talking. I said i needed to know if he'd been calling. She said that had been calling.....duh...I mean not recently. [censored]!!! She told me last week that she had ALWAYS been the one to contact him. LYING PIECE OF TRASH!! She's refusing to give me the number.

Don't get angry with her and love bust. Just be determined and find OM's number. Check her phone when she isn't looking. Check the cell phone bill online. If she tells you not to snoop, snoop anyway. You can get the number, just not from her.

Edit:

If you have your WW's cell phone log, call up every number on the log, and ask for OM. If it's not him say wrong number. Have you contacted OM's family? I would let them know what their son has been up to.

I DONT GET IT!! Why would she come tell me that she wants to work it out with me if she is still talking to this guy? Does she really think it will work out if she's still talking to him?

This is part of the email she wrote me after I asked her for the number.

"What you don't understand is that me not giving you the number has nothing to do with hiding. I'm really trying to stop thinking about everyone but you, and it's difficult to do that with you constantly bringing him up or wanting me to email or call him. With you constantly bringing him back into our lives you are only opening up a door that I don't want to go into.
I know what it is that I have to do BH, and you spying on me is not going to make it easier or harder for me to make my decisions. If I do or do not choose to continue a relationship with him has nothing to do with you screaming at me or not. You HAVE to get that through your head. There is nothing that you are going to be able to do to make my decisions for me.
What you are going to have to do is trust that whatever decision that I make, I will be honest with you at that point. What are you trying to do here??"

The thing is is that she already told me that she'd made her decision to stay with me.

Cubed...

You need to understand that YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND the words or actions of a Wayward. Stop trying to understand what can't be understood. NONE OF WHAT THEY DO MAKES SENSE.

What matters is what YOU do. Control your Angry Outbursts, Disrespectful Judgements and all other Love Busters. Ugly behavior by you makes the OM look like the best of the two choices in her mind.

You must remain covert in your snooping, and quit being so confrontational. Read back through this entire thread and begin following this advice to a T, and you will begin to realize progress.

You must snoop, just be totally secretive. You must expose, so create your list. You must control your emotions, so vent here, but in your WW's presence, maintain complete control. You must do the work, so roll up your sleeves. You must think positively, so purge your mind of the negative thoughts. Check your WW's phone bill online, and his number will be the one that pops up the most times, I guarantee it. It's the way it is.

Hang in there!

SD

Cubed,

DO NOT scream at your WW. Instead cut off ALL access to OM and make there be consequences if there is continued contact. I would definitely start by contacting OM's family and letting them know that there son is interfering with your marriage. At our age, parents still have influence on their children (especially if their children are losers and still cannot fully support themselves). Secondly, get spyware and access to all your WW's accounts to verify NC. Dig through her purse before she wakes up in the morning. Check her car for a hidden cellphone. Don't be snooping out in the open, but if she catches you, make no apologies and DO NOT agree to stop. You will stop when she PROVES to be trustworthy. Watch her like a hawk.

NOW AT THE SAME TIME, you need to be on your best behavior and meet her ENs that she will allow you to meet. Continue this for a few months, and if she continues to contact OM, THEN we'll talk about plan B. Get some antidepressants to help you get through this time. DO NOT take your frustrations out on your WW. This will only exacerbate the situation.

You know what. ****** THIS!!

If 8 years of my life aren't enough for her to just STOP TALKING TO HIM then I don't give a ****** about her either.

"in sickness and in health"

This is an addiction. Your wife is "sick". She needs you now more than ever. Marriage Builders works. YOU have to "work" it. Not at 20% or 50% or even 80%. You have to buy in and go at it 100%, 95% of the time. But you have to "believe" in the program, get control of your temper (which might have been something that was an "issue" in your marriage before it became vulnerable to an affair?) and work it.

There is no "easy" button.

Many have arrived here, worked the program, and save their marriages. It can be done. But not without a great deal of effort.

How much do you love your W?

SD

I agree with SD- do you want to save your marriage or not?

You're incredibly angry- and I understand that. I get it and I understand why. But if you want to save your marriage this anger being directed towards your WW will not help.

Come here and vent to us- we'll try to help you. Vent to a good friend. Go to the gym, run, box or something to help get rid of some of the anger!

I feel like she wants me to yell at her, go get her and throw her back into the house. I know she's said she wants me to fight for our marraige before. And while I know she doesn't mean actually FIGHT, I sometimes think she wants that whole "caveman beats you over the head with a club and drags you back to the cave" thing.

Of course she wants you to fight and yell at her. It justifies her cheating on you and leaving you, doesn't it?

That's why its the LAST thing you should do. Don't play her game...you can't win.

Play YOUR game...with YOUR rules (as learned here).

And if you're not playing to win, you're just wasting your time.

Allowing your anger to make your decisions for you is the surest way to take this straight to divorce.

ACT...stop REACTING.

Cubed...

We KNOW how INSANE this whole experience is. We have LIVED it, just like you are living it today. There is no limit to what a Wayward will do or say. NO LIMIT.

They are temporarily insane, and will drive you to the same level of insanity IF YOU LET THEM. Reacting to everything they do and say is LETTING THEM DRAG YOU INTO THEIR WORLD OF INSANITY!

So STOP listening to and hanging on every word she says, and every action she takes and being REACTIVE, and dragged into her sinkhole of crazy.

START listening to the advice you are being given here, and be PROACTIVE in dealing with the insanity. It will keep you SANE.

You've been given as good as advice on this thread as anyone can get, yet you don't respond to the posts. You don't ask specific question or ask for guidance in regard to your actions. On the contrary, you come here after REACTING to her insanity and VENT and COMPLAIN about stuff we've told you IS GOING TO HAPPEN...yet you act offended and angry when it does. WTF?

If you don't settle down and get a grip, you might as well call a lawyer and file for D. You are ignoring advice and the MB program, and you've allowed yourself to be worked into such a lather you are incapable of taking any ACTIONS that will HELP YOUR CAUSE.

I hardly post here anymore, but in your initial post I thought I "saw" a man of character who had a pretty good chance of hanging tough, working the program and saving his marriage. I still believe that man exists, but you are going to have to summon him up from your panic over all this, and put him to work. And soon...

SD

You're right..... I'm really scared of exposing to people. I've told a limited number of people so far. I'm sure that at least her mother, father and grandmother know about this. As far as the OM is concerned, I've found out that his parents live in another city. I don't know if it would do any good to expose to them, he's 27 and they're in their sixties.

I talked to her calmly last night and apologized for getting angry at her. I think the first thing I need to do is see if she'll cut down or stop drinking. My good friend and her own mother seem to think that alcohol is playing a big role here. I agree.

Any suggestions for talking to her about her alcohol abuse?

Have you talked to her family about this, or are you just "sure they know about this." They probably don't know half the story if you left it up to your WW. When you talk to them you should also talk to them about her drinking.

YES, EXPOSE TO OM's family. I know if I ever caroused with a married woman my family would disown me. They also need to know in case OM tries hooking up with your WW again, they will already think she's trash and will not like her. Any pressure they can put on OM to stop talking to your WW is welcome.

I promise you, once you stop fearing losing your WW, that is when your situation will turn around. What would you do if you weren't afraid? That's what you need to do.

I've talked to her family about it, her mom was PISSED!!

Expose to her mom, her dad, her brothers, her sisters, her best friends, close aunts, uncles, preacher, whomever YOU think are friends of your marriage. Like a tsunami, all at once, just do it, telling them all your W is having an affair, and you still love her, and you'd like their assistance in helping her return to the marriage. Exposure is NOT done out of vengence.

On the drinking...ask her mother if she'd go to the first few AA meetings with your W. If the drinking is a result of her recent actions; ie, she's not had a drinking problem before the affair, then it will be much easier to beat. If she was a chronic alcoholic before the affair, then she will need the help of a 12 step program, and Marriage Builders principals are less likely to work until she is a recovering alcoholic.

In the mean time, stop with the confrontations, NO LoveBusters, and Plan A your a$$ off. Show her you realize some of your behaviors prior to the affair were not conducive to a good marriage, and set forth to change and improve those things immediately. Get the keylogger and install it on your computer. Scour the phone logs online and verify whether NC is in place or not.

Like Jim posted...what would you do if you weren't afraid???

SD

Keylogger is installed. She hasn't been using the computer for the past few days. I'm getting cell records tomorrow. I really think that she hasn't been talking to him though. She has been home every night since she wrote me the letter.

We went to eat last night and talked briefly about our relationship. She says that she's just not attracted to me anymore. I asked why and I get this "I don't know" crap.

I've committed to doing plan a. One of her EN's though is sex. She says she's not ready for that with me yet. (I'm not sure I am either) Our sex life was crap lately (although it has been really great for both of us before) and I've committed to making it better with her but I know it's not going to happen for a while. I think this is a huge area that needs to be addressed but I'm not sure if I will have the chance with her.

We talked about when she started feeling like our marriage wasn't working. She said around february. (I guess I didnt see the signs, she sure didnt tell me) It wasn't until recently that she really expressed these feelings. She told me the main reasons for her staying right now are guilt and fear.