2 questions:
1: I bring up OW more than I should, I mean, whenever she’s brought up it’s because of me. I also talk bad about her, try to show him how she really is. Face the fact that she’s not a good person whether he’s sleeping with her or not. Duh, I need to stop. But when I talk bad about the OW I’m able to show him the logic, however, am I enticing him to want to be with her more? You know what I mean, its like the more your parents hate something the more you love it? WS and FWS, is this the case when BS talk bad about the OP. (Mine you, I not just name calling w/o justification, I’m giving him facts to show him that she’s just playing a game with him, I do this because he tells me he will always care for her, even if he falls out of love for her.)

2: I can’t believe how many posts I’ve seen talking about false recovery after 5 months, 6 months, 10 months etc. We’ve been in recovery for 15 days…I think. How do I know if its false or not. Because I think its true recovery right now. I did post yesterday that by the works of God, I caught OW parked at my house when I should have been at work. She left when she saw me, I quietly enter the home and my husband was sound asleep like I had left him—to me he had no idea she was out there. That’s what he said too and I believe him. I believe she is mad and in withdrawals of her own and to her, she wants her man back….HA, “her man” is she crazy, I’m his wife. Other than her crazy @$$ being outside in stalking mode….I have no suspicion, no clues, no feeling that he’s failing NC. So, What are the signs of false recovery, could OW parking at house be one of them? Is that obvious? Or am I just in fog of my own?

I think you hit a bulls eye when you said that talking about the OW is like when a parent hates something, the kid loves it more.

Talking bad about the OW doesn't show him any logic. He may actually want to defend her. His thinking isn't clear right now. You are constantly bringing up his addiction to him.

He needs to come up with the logic on his own or it won't mean anything.

As you make your M the best he has ever had, he will see that his "...will always care for her..." is just part of the fog of the A.

Did he say anything about her being at your house? Did he think it was stalking behavior? Reinforce what he is doing right in recovery and with NC. If you believe it is recovery for real, let your H know that. Tell him the things that you notice and how things are different. Encourage him.

Let the OW and her behavior be part of God's work. She will show her true colors and God will open his eyes.

Come here to vent.

Talking bad about the OW makes him have to defend her...is that really what you want?

I had to deal with this during our recovery...I wanted to point out all the ways that OM in our case was NOT my friend, was NOT innocent in all of this, etc... But I DIDN'T. Because I knew that she wouldn't agree with me, that it would simply turn things into a fight. That's not what I wanted.

So I avoided talking about him all at first. I concentrated instead on what SHE was feeling, and how to deal with it. If I DID think it was important to point out to her during a conversation some specific thing about OM...for example, if she went on about how he was worried about how this would affect his friendship with me...I'd simply say "Well, he didn't care enough about that friendship to take a step back and stop this, did he?. And then I would DROP it completely. I'd make her THINK, not REACT.

Get the idea?

What is it mom's used to say?
"If you've got nothing nice to say...". Not much nice to say about a man who's convinced your wife to run away and live with him, is there? So he wasn't the subject of much conversation.

It took several months...even the better part of a year...before she no longer tried to defend him if I said something negative...her view of him changed to the point where she could see that he WASN'T such a nice guy.

John and Owl, you guys are soooo right and he does defend her. I will stop, hard it may be I have to stop.

He needs to come up with the logic on his own or it won't mean anything.
True True, he has to learn it for his self, it will have far better effect then just me telling him. But without saying it, at least he will have the I told you so in his head if he ever does come to grip with reality. (I will never say I told you so though).

Did he say anything about her being at your house? Did he think it was stalking behavior? Reinforce what he is doing right in recovery and with NC. If you believe it is recovery for real, let your H know that. Tell him the things that you notice and how things are different. Encourage him.

No, he don't think it was stalking, I dont think she can do no wrong in his eyes. He has no idea why she came. And once again you are right because I DO NOT encourage him...and when I do, there's a "but" that follows. I just dont see the justification to encourage when he's the wrongdoer....but if I want my M, AND I DO...that's the justification. sigghhhhhhh. STRESS!

I will encourage him when I get home...even when I dont feel like him...and to be honest-I am proud of him...I just dont say it. I will start.

So I avoided talking about him all at first. I concentrated instead on what SHE was feeling, and how to deal with it. If I DID think it was important to point out to her during a conversation some specific thing about OM...for example, if she went on about how he was worried about how this would affect his friendship with me...I'd simply say "Well, he didn't care enough about that friendship to take a step back and stop this, did he?. And then I would DROP it completely. I'd make her THINK, not REACT.

GREAT!!!! I will keep my thoughts to myself....and when appropriate....."THINK before I SPEAK" and like you said Owl make him "THINK" and, not "REACT"

Just remember...WS's are not notorious for their thinking abilities.

If he reacts when you expected to think...simply let him rant, don't respond angrily, and LISTEN to what he says. No sense in responding to a WS in full fog-babble-fight mode...you're better off arguing with the wind.

Mine does the same thing. The other day he told me that if she kills herself, he will carry that forever on his head. I looked at him & said "As much as I love you, & I love you more than life, I still have two girls who need me. I have seen OW with her grandbaby, all crazy over him. She doesn't care about him very much if she would kill herself over this. Not very maternal either to do that to her kids." I said no more. A little later, he told me he agreed with me about her.

That's why mine has contacted his. Because someone got word to him that she was not sleeping, not eating, losing a lot of weight fast, not going & doing anything with anyone. He is so afraid, since her BH killed himself in March, that she will do the same & it will be his fault, just like he believes BH suicide is his fault.

He has to realize that life is about choices & you aren't responsible for anyone else's choice. When he brings it up, I just say, He made a choice, you didn't make it for him. (One of the few times I seem to be able to be short & to the point.)

I have the same problem you have of bringing the OW up. As he has told me more about the A, it has gotten easier to not bring her up. It will get better with time. And if you know there is NC, (which mine keeps breaking), & he really didn't know she was there (sounds like it could be "fatal attraction"), that will also make it easier to not talk about the OW. I now go 2 or 3 days without her coming up. But I will admit, I think about her every day, I just don't say anything to him. I know this will fade with time also.

Keep your chin up. Your still in the baby-step stage. It's only been recovery for a short time. The longer recovery lasts, the longer you can go without bringing the OW up.

Lost you put it so nicely. yeah, I don't think much is talked about the OP on this site when WS is willing to end it but the OP say's "NO NO, you'll go when im done with you, or how dare you leave me for your S, I'm gonna make you both suffer cuz i have nothing better to do with my life."

She has 3 kids (girls and boy), what is she teaching them--yes the 11 and 6 year old girls knew about the affair ....she hid nothing from them the entire 10 months. I'm not friends when OW or her kids but friend of a relative of hers, so I know of them. I've conversated with the children on few occasions and they told me nothing, other than a fondness for my husband i couldnt figure out (i know why now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />) there were no clues from them. Which tells me, they are use to this. Now I want to run and tell him that he's probably not the only married man....but I won't. I will not. This is so hard. Pray for me, I really need to learn how to shutup. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

waking,

Sometimes I just tell myself that this is not my DH but an alien that has taken over. It helps me to shut up occasionally, LOL. I'm gradually learning to be short & walk away.

I'll pray for you, just like others do & did for me. It's hard but we'll both, you & me, get through this.

I've learned from my experience that its better just to walk away when you are going to say something that will stir up an argument. We just have to face reality, our H's are not completely there. Someone has taken over them. I try to remind myself of that every time my H says something to hurt my feelings. At first, I would cry over every little bad thing he would tell me. I'm learning little by little to try and ignore it. I know its hard, believe me, it is, but why stir up a fight with someone who is not completey there. Two wrongs doesn't make 1 right. keep trying, it doesn't hurt anyone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My situation is somewhat different as I am divorced and wanting to reconcile with XH, but your post strikes a chord with me.

I had a relationship after my M, that was a disaster. In hindsight I can see that but at the time... well I was as foggy as any WS here. XH would take digs occasionally - and he's the last person I'd have "heard" logic from.

The irony is that he was involved post-M too (still is, sorta) with a real prize too. The difference is, I've managed to keep my mouth shut.

The only time I said anything was when he first took up with her (met her on an online dating site - I think she found him, not the other way around) and 3 months or so into the 'relationship' he opted to pay her rent instead of his bills - and that affected my credit because I was still on one of his credit cards when I wasn't supposed to be (he never took me off - took 2 years and lots of paperwork for ME to fix that)...

Anyway I told him then that she was using him - he wouldn't hear it, after all she was his soul mate (gag), I didn't understand, it was a 'loan' blah blah. I simply said that I understood completely - and it was a 'gift'. I left it at that and to this day nearly 2 years later I have held my tongue.

Oh except for once- back in March I had an AO over some business stuff (we own a business together)... and when he took a pot shot below the belt at my XBF (who had nothing to do with matters at hand), I stooped and said that he was being led around by the penis. Then I caught myself and said no more. That shot was directed to him, not GF - but the intent was there.

It's hard to see the one you love, being led down the garden path - (and that goes both ways in my case I guess) but speaking from experience on both sides of that coin, the last person you want to hear 'logic' from, is your BS or XS - after all, the spouse has an agenda, to break up the relationship so they can get back in.

So now in my situation, I've spent the last several months posting here and working on me, while out of the corner of my eye, I see XH hanging on desperately to a relationship that I saw as a dead-end nearly 2 years ago. She moved in for a year, moved out 4 months ago, she lives over 2000 miles away, yet they still are 'together' in some form or fashion. He was supposed to be out there to visit her this past 10 days, but for whatever reason(s) he ended up going to visit his parents instead (a good thing, IMO).

I don't know if it's 'over' yet between them or not - and I still want to reconcile. I've been doing sort of a Plan A and 180 as when he's not on vacation we see each other at work (him part time, me full time) nearly daily.

I know what you mean though - you want to grab them and give their head a shake and say, "Don't you SEE?"

The truth is, they don't. Either they can't in the fogged in state, or they don't want to. Nothing you can do about that, except keep quiet about it, work your plan, work on you and let your WH come to the realization on his own. To do otherwise *would* be false recovery, especially if you're love-busting by running down OP, instead of just focusing on the positives between yourself and H.

It's probably one of the hardest things to do - but I think it's necessary.

JinGA

Which would you prefer?

You try to tell your husband about OW's flaws resulting in your husband defending OW (ouch).

OR

Your husband (eventually) admits OW's faults AND tells you that you are better than OW in every way.

I would rather my H (eventually) admit....but does that actually happen???? They didnt have a fallen out, he merely choose to come home. He may never see her faults...unless she does something stupid.

As I mentioned b4, here or some other thread....he feels that it was just bad timing (him and the OW) and that he met a really nice person.

Well that was 2 weeks ago, dont know if he still feels that way or not, but probably so. I mean she's not around to withdrawal love units from his bank.

Call me crazy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> but I have decided to pray <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> for other woman.

I'm still mad at her so I dont pray as often for her as I do my H....but I pray for her to find happiness, not to want for anything, to find a man to love her right and not do her wrong (this is really hard to say and mean it, actually ---at this point in time i dont really mean but i ask God for forgiveness) and to be happy finacially...I do this because I want her to forget all about my H. As long as she's depressed, she will think it has something to do with my H being out of her life....if she happy...she will see that she doesnt need my H and she wont be as much of a threat.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Even though deep down I wish the worse for her...I wish she felt what she made me feel...but I confess to God how i really feel and pray that he gives me a forgiving attitude toward her and to pray for nothing but good to her...."forgiving attitude toward her" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> WOW-this my take a while.

someone just plz put me out of my misery.

ok to recap, H dumped OW and decided to come home. NC for 4 weeks -so I thought. And has been going through the normal w/drawals.

Just the pass week or so he's been doing good with w/drawals, hmmmmm? Is it prayer (been praying everyday) or has NC been broken. Not trying to shorten the power of prayer because I know prayer works, HOWEVER in this sitch NC been broken with a 15 min. Phone call. I guess prayer is working because "according to him" he still hasn't "seen" her, nor did he tell her he wanted to come back. He was just calling to check up on her.

I asked him prior over and over "you sure you haven't broken NC?" "Yeah i'm sure" he says. Well just yesterday, I decided to ask him again only this time swearing on someone's life ....he'll never do this if he's lying. And lo and behold he said he couldn't swear on someone's life. So he just finally admitted to the phone call. Then he sweared to not seeing her, only contacted by phone. This fool had the nerve to say "what's the big deal about a phone call?" arrrgggggg....

Remember (from my other posts) this is the guy who refused to NC letter because he had already ended it face to face, he felt that the letter would be salt on wound.

But i guess its ok to put salt on my would with a phone call...that I dont even know if that's all it was...that's all he's admitted too....is he telling the truth....who knows...but I'm tired of playing the investigator trying to catch a crook.

Oh yeah....Thursday I call the radio station and Dr. Harley said if he gets out of w/drawal too quick that means he has had contact.....Harley u were right.

BTW he had this phone call Monday 8/27/07 from a pay phone. Said he may have told her he missed her, and that he still cares but home is where he wants to be...she precedes to tell him the h3ll she has been in and that she loves him and misses him too and other b/s. He said he just listened.

So am I wrong for this: You can imagine how hurt I was, just the intial blow of hearing NC broken...so I throw the HNHN book at his face (hard)-(we were in the middle of lesson 2), he got really really mad and I could tell he wanted to knock me out but he didn't. Soooo I preceded to do every LB in the book, screaming , cussing, AO, DJ, calling him dumb and stupid, and repeatly asked him to leave.....at that point who cared about plan A....I WENT BALISTIC, I SNAPPED ON HIM...in the end (like an hour later) he asked how can he prove to me that he really wants his M....

I told him to give me $2000 for my divorce lawyer.

sooo as time went by I had calm down and went to bed, b4 he went to work to 3rd shift he kissed me goodbye and started rubbing on me....(wow, now that i dont want your @$$ you're giving me affection) anyway he's still at work and now I'm here venting. Now that i've calm down....the phone call hurts but worst things could have happen (if he's being truthful).

Did I overreact? I let my emotions get the best of me.

WB10

Even though I'm still pretty new the MB stuff I can tell you that trying to use logic to show my WH the flaws of his OW (leaving three kids; breaking off from her mother, father and sisters; needy; weak...blah, blah, blah the list goes on) demonstrated that she is a person of low morals and character--not the "soulmate goddess" he made her out to be. Needless to say, my efforts were a complete bust. His view was that if she was that bad he was too since they were affair partners (actually this line of thinking on his part has turned out to be one of the few things that is pretty accurate!)

All my logic did was make him try to convince ME what a special and wonderful person she is. That was the biggest mistake I made in Plan A before he moved out to live with her.

Interestingly enough, I found out today that my WH is not her first affair partner -- he's at least #2!! So, looky-looky here, Miss Special Soulmate OW is a serial cheater on top of everything else. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I am pretty sure my WH does not know, and I've learned my lesson--I'm not telling him this latest piece of info. In his current foggy state he'd think I was lying or find a way to justify her.

Anyway, continuing Plan B. It's really dark in here...

Smartiepants

WH filled out ENQ...interesting
I havent read the entire ENQ, only the ranking (last page)

1. SF (surprise surprise)
2. DS I figured
3. Financial Support ?????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
4. Honesty and Openness?????????????????
5. Family Commitment ?

Did he even try to fill out the ENQ right.....lol...j/k, but I'm just surprised with 3, 4, and 5...my explanation below:


3. FS?????? Wow! He has complained about this over our entire M BUT...he makes twice as much as me. He said he would never want a SAHW...which works because Im a career woman....but WOW, we'll have to talk about this one because what does he expect me to do....He buys whatever he wants WHAT-EVER-HE-WANTS(w/in reason) Im the one that has to scrap and save to get anything I want. I dont under stand this. Never understood it when he complained about it...for the most part I just ignored him. I mean, times have changed but I still have the thinking that he's the man he's the provider...plus he makes twice more than me. He would have some argument if I made more than him....but I dont.

4. HO???? How could he rank honesty and openness???? ok when we were dating we use to do this all the time. After M i continued, he stopped. How did this make his top 5?? Did he read the ranking right? Its suppose to be what you can't be without...or is he saying He like when IM H/O but he doesnt want to be H/O...because forget the affair...its like pulling teeth to get him to talk about his feelings and the future anymore....If this is fact-great....But I really think (based on the past) he didnt rank these very well. but i havent read the H/O sheet so later when we combine notes...we'll see if H/O is 2, 4, or 6 of importance.

5. FC, hmmmm I would think this one would be ranked 7...we hardly do anything together as a family unless its my idea and then he dont feel like doing it. But my WH doesn't like doing anything that doesnt have to do with him laying on the couch.

I'm very surprised that "An attractive Spouse" didnt make the 5.....sooooooo I guess if i was funky all the time, ugly, teethless, hair not done, hairy legs and pits, musty, and unattractive weight and clothing...but did everything else....it still wouldnt be a top 5??? I should at least make sure he understands. It may have not been a top 5 need because I'm the opposite of the description, so he has no need for it because he has it all the time....so i will break it down and see if he keeps his ranking.