Tami,

When you speak (and write to WH) about boundaries, be very careful you don't fall into the trap so many do. You can only set boundaries for YOU not for WH.

By that I mean you can state that you will not remain with him if he continues seeing OW. This should likely have a progressive enforcement attached to it. ie: Step 1) Stop actively doing most of Plan A stuff. Just quit helping him out and begin to withdraw a bit. 2) Pretty much begin to ignore him except to reinforce why you are ignoring him 3) Ask him to leave unless he writes NC letter and commits ...


Notice that the boundary states what you will and will not tolerate and only says what you will do. It does not say "You will have NC with her ever or else..." This is not an enforceable boundary since it is for him and not you.

When you state your boundary, it must only be a statement of what YOU will do, not what he should do. "I will not stay with you if you keep seeing her" is not the same as saying "Don't you ever go near her again..." The reason for both statements is the same and hopefully the results of the first will lead to the second, but you can only control YOU not him so your boundary must be about you and not him.

Be sure that he knows the consequences of violating your boundary. Shouting and yelling at him are not real consequences only a minor annoyance. Resist the urge to verbally beat some sense into him.

Foggy folks from fantasy-land feel few forays into logic. (Ran out of alliteration...)

This is not something that can be solved by simply finding the right thing to say or do. The effort is cumulative and hopefully the results will be as well.

Before he gets it, he must first get the fact that you will not share him. This should be your boundary. "I will not share you with OW."

Consequences applied incrementally but with never a retraction of them will show him you are serious. And when it is the end of the line for your efforts and you are out of gas, have Plan B ready and all plans completed so that when you lower the boom you are also ready to raise the drawbridge and shut him out until all conditions are met.

And remember that Plan B is for you not him. It is not to punish him but to give you relief. It is also not simply the first step toward Plan D. That is a separate decision that should not be made while emotions are ruling your thoughts.

Mark

Listen to these folks Tami. Breathe, Eat, try to sleep. Get busy on your boundaries and setting up Plan B, so that you are ready if you need to.

Remember, other people do care. How are your kids?

FTS

Tami,
I really get where you're at. I wish I had answers; but I don't. But I am here for you with support & empathy.
Stay strong. You're in my thoughts.
-SL

Tami,

Wazup?

What's going on?

How are you doing?

Let us know what's happening. The silence is deafening.

Mark

Hi Mark,

Sorry I'm not sure "Wazup?". I'm having a problem forming a boundary letter. Each one I start I end up sounding like I'm either beating him over the head or it's so direct it's harsh.

Also, I've been wondering if I really even care what happens next. I look at him and think....what's the appeal? He's perfectly content with the way things are at this point. Not only is he in the fog, he's also buried deep in the sand.

We have "little moments" but he takes everything I say with a 2nd meaning. Like that Sen. Larry Craig...we were talking about that. I said if he wasn't guilty why would he 1)plead guilt and 2)hide it from everyone. Those are a action of a man who got caught w/his pants(ha ha)down and now trying to cover it up by placing the blame onto everyone else. Of course, my H, read more into it...I told him "not every comment I make is about him."

I took my wedding ring off the other day....just to see how it would feel. Even though the ring was off, it left the impression on my finger. Then I wonder how long it would take for the skin to become like the rest of my fingers....hmmm.

I have been reading a lot of posts, just trying to figure out where I am. I'm feeling a little lost....

FTS--

The kids are okay. My daughter is gone most of the week so she doesn't witness anything but my son is at home and he notices something. We don't have "tension" between us per say....it's just we are not as "affectionate" as we use to be. I think I'm just lonely....it's been over a year since we had SF. I'm a little starve for "attention".

Since that is his biggest issue is weather or not he can feel "sexual" towards me....what's a girl to do? Since the A, I've lost 35lbs, got contacts, and wearing make-up....he doesn't like that. I think w/these changes (outside/inside) it's harder to justify to himself why he's not attracted to me. I was talking to one of his male co-worker...he's a flirt....says to me "too bad your married....your looking good!" Then my H came up and he said to my H. I think that threatens him more...what do I know I'm not a guy!?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I took this weekend off...so looking forward to 3-day weekend. My son's 16th b-day is fri, but we are having a party on Sat. for him. I'll work on the letter between the party, school shopping and cleaning the house. Life goes on!

I'm in a funky funk.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Tami

Have a great b-day party for your son. We will be camping in the mountains.
Did you find any of the sample letters for NC, and Plan B? Look at them for suggestions on thoughts and wording. Then post what you come up with here for others to give you input.
It's threatening to the WH to see you making improvements to yourself. Congratulations on losing the 35 lbs on the infidelity diet. I did too. Not the way you want to even if you need. Hopefully, you haven't lost to much. Try to eat, eat small but more often. (I needed the immodium in the cabinet for every meal the first 4months, the stress was so great that no food stayed put). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

It's okay to have doubts about why your staying. I only left my rings on because I didn't want the kids to ask me about them being off. I hated them. My stomache turned when I looked at them. They quit representing what they always had to me, instead they became a symbol of lies and deceit. Now, I look at them and they are not really any different than the ring on my other hand, a piece of jewelry. Will I ever look at them proudly again??? I don't know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Give yourself time, be gentle with your self and your flip/flopping thoughts and emotions. We've all been there. And the anger is coming. Avoid LB'ing, think about your plans, have fun with your son.

It's amazing how everything in the news is associated with immoral/amoral acts. Comments and jokes about them always feel like zingers. Even when the comments come from someone without a clue to the situation, worse from someone who does.

FTS

Tami,

Just wondering how you're doing.

Mark

Hey Mark,

To be honest I'm totally discouraged. I started reading FIL/SIL, I'm hoping it will motivate me in wanting to do something about our M. We are at a stand still. He's miserable (withdrawals)--I'm miserable (cause he's in withdrawls). We talk around the elephant and doing just what it says not to do in the book. I'm wondering if I will ever trust him and he's wondering if he'll ever "love" me.

As much as it hurts me, I just don't see a solution. He doesn't want to have any conflicts and I think it's b/c he's not sure what he wants. I want to just "do something". We are back in the rut we were in b4 the A. And we all know how that turned out. I think if I can find something....anything about him that I admire....I could "feel" something for him. At this point when he talks about things, and if it's a moral issue, I have to fight to not roll my eyes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I know that I must love him, b/c I'm still having dreams about him. The other night I dreamt that he told me he was w/OW and that they had sex again. I woke up crying....the loud, hicup, ugly cry. If my H heard it he, ignored it. I know not to expect anything but I'm starved for attention, affection and "other" things. I don't know how long I can do this, if I'm going w/o, then why be w/him?

Any advice....normal (if there's such a thing!) to feel this way?

Thanks for checking up on me!
Tami

Tami,

I'd say you are in a pretty normal set of feelings right now.

He wants to avoid conflict, you want to confront the situation and have it resolved. But until he completes withdrawal from OW, he is in fact in a state of withdrawal from you. If you read Dr Harley's description of three states of mind in marriage, you will see that he cares not one bit whether you are meeting his ENs. In addition, he has no reason to attempt to meet your ENs either.

You are correct that you cannot wait forever for at least two reasons, both related to your ENs going unmet. First of all your LB$ is draining away to nothing and it is only a matter of time before you too will be in withdrawal and not care whether recovery begins or not.

The second reason is that as your LB$ gets drained further, you too become vulnerable to a revenge A. Since you aren't having your ENs met it is only a matter of time before you succumb to the temptation to seek having those needs met elsewhere.

This is why you need to be preparing for Plan B, before you no longer give a hoot and while you still have some sense of responsibility and rational thought yourself.

Plan A is hard and while you can you need to show him what being married to you could be like so that when you do enter Plan B phase his last memory is of how wonderful you were in spite of his failings. But if he shows no signs of beginning to dialog, keeping in mind that at no time will you simply sit down and hash things out till everything is resolved, then you must go to Plan B before you are at a complete end of your love for him since it is likely that he will one day wish to return to you and if your love is totally gone, you will then not desire reconciliation.

What you need right now is simply a commitment from him to try. You cannot force this as it must be his decision and you must guard against attempting to coerce or convince him that it is the right thing to do because it has to come from him to be real and pressing the issue too hard will actually have the reverse effect of what you seek; he will withdraw even further.

While the elephant will be present in the sitting room for quite a while yet, if he shows any sign of wanting to stay, continue down that path without trying to fix it all in one fell swoop. You eventually have to discuss the elephant; you don't have to discuss it to the exclusion of all other topics or when both LB$s are at a low point. You build a little love, then take a shot at the elephant, then back off and build a little more love. Eventually, you hit the sucker and things improve, but if all your effort is given to talking out the relationship issues including the affair, nobody gets anything, your LB$ empties and his never fills up. Then all that is left is Plan D.

Mark

Tami,

Listen to Mark, I know that you are feeling as though there is nothing positive. It's very hard to be polite and not roll your eyes when issues of morals come up. It's hard to watch TV, listen to music, etc. This crap seems to be everywhere. Try to control it. Try to take a walk together, you don't have to talk. Go to the zoo and look at the animals, or to an art gallery, whatever. Try to spend time without the intrusion of our amoral world imposing itself on you. You can do this, but you have to survive through his withdrawal period. Many of the the FWS's here say the same things he is saying, then they come out of the fog and can't believe what they said, did, believed. Hang in there. Come here to roll your eyes and vent.

I'll be out of town for the weekend. I'll check on you Tuesday if I can, I'm on call so it might be Wed. before I can check in.

FTS

FTS,

Enjoy camping!! Do you Grizzly Adams camp or house on wheels camp? I'm a total equipped kitchen,king size (extra pillows)bed, full bath, swimming pool, hot tub,take-out kind of camping! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have to say I'm very proud of myself, I have control my urges to slap him silly on multiple occasions. Instead I just smile and nod. Sometimes he says thing just to see my reaction, in the past I would make some kind of remark. The fact that I'm not, throws him off balance. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing.

It's so hard to judge if what you are doing is correct since you don't get any feedback. It's like both of us are doing the samething but neither one of us knows it. He's trying to keep the peace like I am so we are both being safe/generic with eachother. I guess I have to come to terms that this is a stage we need to get through. It's tough....as my daughter use to say "It's stupid AND dumb!"

Hey Mark .....thanks for the link re: radio program. I don't ever get a chance to listen during the day so it's great to be able to plug in at night. Just so you know I'm still working on my boundary and Plan B, my eyes are not closed and as my fortune cookie says, "The smart thing is to prepare for the unexpected." Has a double meaning, hmmmm. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Have you ever read the full version of the Serenity Prayer? I only know the first part...it's very inspiring:

God, give us grace to accept with serenity
the things that cannot be changed,
Courage to change the things
which should be changed,
and the Wisdom to distinguish
the one from the other.

Living one day at a time,
Enjoying one moment at a time,
Accepting hardship as a pathway to peace,
Taking, as Jesus did,
This sinful world as it is,
Not as I would have it,
Trusting that You will make all things right,
If I surrender to Your will,
So that I may be reasonably happy in this life,
And supremely happy with You forever in the next.
Amen.

Words to live by.....I feel a 2nd wind coming!!
Enjoy your looooong weekend.
Tami

Tami,

I don't know what FTS calls camping, but our version of it is a 12 X 38 foot park model with vinyl siding, shingled roof, central heat and air, microwave oven, color TV and a satellite dish.

If I want to rough it, I turn off the A/C and open the windows.

If I feel really rustic, I'll build a hardwood fire to cook my meat over. Most of the time it is the gas grille.

Going there this weekend if we get to it...

Mark

Mark,

I hope you do get to it....my version of "ruff'n it" would be arriving w/o a reservation! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Tami

Tami,

Where are you?? How are you doing??

Fled