I found this website some time ago but only discovered the discussion forums recently. I'm hoping to get some advice. Here is the background to my situation. In January I came upon an email that my husband had sent to a former work colleague, the content of which prompted me have a look at his phone. On this I found a large number of text messages from this same colleague, many of which were clearly in response to texts that he had sent to her. The texts were flirtatious bordering on sexual & definitely not appropriate for a married person to be sharing with anyone other than their spouse. He agreed that anyone reading them would definitely have been led to believe that they had been having a PA.
Upon questioning him on this it became clear that he had had an EA with this woman starting from the previous November. He felt that the inappropriate side of their relationship had ended in the December but they were still in regular contact through January as “friends”. He was also adamant that that there had not been a PA.

So far, so traumatic & thus began a long hard look at our own relationship & in many ways a lot of good things have come out of the situation.
My husband was full of remorse for what he had done & was quite clear that the EA had arisen through his own lack of self-esteem & depression regarding some poor career choices. In no way did he suggest that there was anything lacking in our own relationship, he had not felt unsupported by me, nor had we stopped talking, having sex etc. Nevertheless we looked at ways to improve our relationship & ensure that his ENs were being met. He also spends more time during the day texting, emailing & calling me, which he acknowledges he hardly did for the previous 10 years. One of the most upsetting elements of the EA was discovering how much time he had spent communicating with the MOW when I’d always been led to believe that he was too busy to do this.

However, several months on, he is much happier & I feel to be sinking lower & lower into depression. The main crux of the problem for me is that he is still in contact with the MOW. This is done through calls & texts to his mobile phone & emails at work. I am also aware that I have been foolish in allowing this to continue. There is no secrecy about the contact any more, it is not especially frequent – a few times a month and as far as I am aware it is fairly innocuous chat about work, children, holidays etc. The sort of chat you would have with any friend. The trouble for me is that she isn’t just any friend. She is also aware that I came across the text messages that she sent. (i.e. She knows that I know!)
The reason for me allowing the contact to continue was a misguided idea on my part to support him with his feelings of low self-esteem. He has few friends that he can talk to and MOW was one of the few that also supported him when he was feeling down. I had thought that it would be unkind to ask him to stop contact with one of these few, especially when I did feel that he was committed to me. Hindsight is a wonderful thing & it wasn’t long before I realised that I was never going to be comfortable with this. He had told me that he would stop contact if I wanted him to as he was determined that I was his priority. I have mentioned a few times that the contact makes me uncomfortable but haven’t directly asked him to stop.

So here are the questions that I need help with:
· Now that several months have passed since D-Day, what would be the best way to approach this with him?
· How can I clearly explain the unease I feel with the situation, when to him the friendship is no threat to our relationship?
· How do I deal with my own resentment about the fact that they’ve had an inappropriate relationship with no apparent consequences, whereas I, the innocent party, have suffered greatly? And how do I get this across to him without it appearing that I feel he needs punishing?
· How can I help him to see that breaking contact with her would not be intended to punish him but would be to reassure me?
· How do I deal with the fear that if I asked this of him at this stage he would agree to it & yet would continue the contact via work email without my knowledge?
The risk I feel I take in asking this of him is not really that he would refuse to do it, but that it could be a cause of resentment for him, if I couldn’t make him understand my need for this. My bigger fear is that I’m afraid that even if he stopped the contact I might still feel the resentment. I believe that I’m upset about the continued contact & lack of awareness of how it’s affecting me. I’m afraid to discover that it might be about the fact that it started in the first place – and I'm not sure what more we can do about that.
Well congratulations if you've made it this far. I look forward to hearing how I might approach this & if any more info is needed just let me know
Thanks
NG

Hi Northerngirl,

Welcome to MB, you have come to the right place. Please try and be patient and read as much as you can from this website and order HNHN and SAA, this will help you a lot.

In answer to your questions, I would tell him exactly what you have wrote here. Be honest with him. Tell him the contact makes you uncomfortable.

Its okay meeting his EN but he isn't meeting yours. You must tell him to stop all contact with OW for life. If he has had an EA then he could have another and if she is still in the picture it's more likely it will be with her.

Have you downloaded the EN questionnaire filled them out and exchange them with him.

Have you asked that he attend a MC with you, to help you both through this.

You must think of an EA in the same way as a PA. I know you may not want to but dealing with it any other way will give you the wrong prospective on things.

You mentioned your fear of what his reactions will be, but fear is something you create yourself. There was a good link on this website about fear which I'll try and find for you, to give you a better understanding.

Resentment will be there for some time I would imagine, but that will reside with time if you are both fulfilling each others EN's and you both do nothing that will upset the other person. You should also be able to see anything of his, phone bills, mobile bills, credit card receipts anything to prove there is no contact. It is obvious his relationship with OW does not include NC.

One other thing. If your H has a low self esteem, he could get some counselling on this as a separate issue, even if it has contributed to his A.

Have a good read of Mark1952's thread on newbies.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3277052

You really need to implement Plan A, which by the sounds of things you are well on your way to doing.

Tell us a bit more of your situation, how long married, children, etc

I'm not a pro here, so what I've said is only IMHO.

Keep posting and don't give up.

Regards
HAF

One of the best ways of helping him understand how you feel is to use the concept of "trigger". Research it on this website and then use the material to explain to him that his continued contact with her is causing you great pain.

Remember, you can't make him do anything, you cannot control his actions. It sounds like you have done a good job or realizing this within your recovery efforts. However, you can make requests of him and you can establish boundaries for yourself. It certainly is not unreasonable that you ask him to stop contacting the OW.

It also sounds like you made an effort to downplay the EA even in your own mind so that you could manage your feelings regarding the EA. I certainly played with the idea of doing that. But I was just not able to do that. My feelings about the EA my FWH had came pouring out of me and he would have had to be deaf and blind not to see the pain I was in regarding his secret contacts with the OW (who was a former high school gf he had had no contact with for 35 years.)

Are you saying that right now you are blaming your continued resentment on the fact that there is continued contact? I imagine that you do still have resentment over the fact that the EA started in the first place. Your H needs to protect you and provide you with the care that you need in order to feel safe. No contact is one of the things that he needs to do for you to help you feel safe. I doubt resentment will disappear with NC in place, but it will fade over time.

You need to tell him that you need no contact. Do they still work together?

As an adult, how many good friends do any of us have? He does not need her as a friend. She is not a friend of your marriage. Their activity together made that an impossibility.

You have explained issues about his self esteem and depression from bad career choices he made. But what was it that allowed him to violate normal marital boundaries to engage in this EA activity with the OW? Has he repaired these boundaries? My FWH got involved in an EA and stated the exact same reasons for the EA during our recovery phase. But we had to go beyond those reasons and he figured out why he violated boundaries. Certainly using radical honesty in our relationship was very necessary to repairing the relationship. Looking at the Love Busters Questionaire, my H has always had difficulty with "dishonesty" and with "independent behavior". These were the areas he worked on to ensure he would not violate boundaries again.

It sounds like the two of you have worked together to establish a good R, but I am somewhat amazed that you have been able to eat this pain regarding contact for so long. The fact that he is able to continue to enjoy contact with OW indicates to me that he is not fully aware of the pain he causes you. My FWH would be loathe to have any contact with OW now.

It justs sounds like you and he skipped over a part of the recovery process--that part where he agrees to no contact and the part where you feel the need to monitor his behavior to ensure that he is keeping you safe.

Again, I toyed with the idea of just pretending that it was no big deal: Once I found the emails that involved him saying many things to her meant to flatter her and meant to encourage her to have feelings for him--my gut said and I told him, "just end it." Over the course of the day, he wrote an email that would "end it." During the day, before he sent it, I toyed with the idea of not sending a "no contact" email and just allowing him to continue the relationship and to wean it down to something that would be appropriate. I guess I felt that my sense of fidelity and my marital pride would be tarnished by acknowledging that he had done something outside of the bounds of our marriage. In the end, I just felt compelled to get the no contact email sent out.

And yes, I still have felt resentment about the fact that the EA started in the first place. I still think about it way too much. But I do find that my strong feelings about it are fading.

Bottom line is that you need to tell him you need no contact because contact is creating triggers and great pain. Then you need to decide how you will monitor the no contact that gets established.

You call her MOW. Does her husband know about the inappropriate relationship that took place? It sounds like you do not want to rock the boat this far into your recovery process. But you can tell OW's H about the EA. He really has a right to know the state of his own marriage, just as you had the right to know about the state of your marriage. His knowledge of the EA will also help you to ensure that no contact is established as he will be watching his wife while you are watching your H.

I assume that since you call MOW a "former colleague" that they no longer work together. There is no reason for this contact to continue.

I don't know, but it sounds like, at least compared to me, that you ate a lot of your resentment and anger and that you are continuing to do that. There is a thread on I believe "recovery" that is something like "BS, raise the bar high for the WS" You may want to take a look at that thread to help you with getting your own needs met in all this. Sorry for the rambling but your post and questions caught my attention as the whole EA thing sounds so similar to what we dealt with.
Regards,
Lake

ng, one of the reasons your marriage has not recovered is because the affair has never ended. He is like an alcoholic who simply switches from gin to beer. He never withdraws, he never sobers up; thusly he never recovers.

Every contact puts you back to Day 1 of recovery, because it is impossible to recover when new cuts are being inflicted daily. You are dying a death of a thousand cuts, and unfortunately you have volunteered for this.

I would explain to him that any contact is only a continution of the affair and is grossly disrespectful to you. It is silly to imagine that an affair partner can be turned back into a friend or that changing the context of conversation in an affair means it is not an affair. [and I am sure you only see what they WANT you to see, you have no idea what they discuss when you aren't looking] They have already gone beyond "friendship" to lover status and she is still meeting his needs.

Any contact with her keeps his feelings alive and triggered. This is why there must be complete no contact.

But, before you have that chat, I would advise you to call up her husband FIRST and give him the full and complete facts of the affair. Without telling your H BEFORE. [tell him after] The reason I say do this first is because a) he has to know the full truth and b) it will take this kind of exposure to end this affair and c) you will prevent any pre-emption.

I suspect the OW has told her H the same nonsense your H has told you, they are just "friends." With the OWH knowing about the affair it is more likely it will end with 2 ppl watching from both ends.

Contact MUST END, ng, and I would start by telling him what I told you above AND by handing him this article from Dr. Harley:

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Northerngirl,
It appears to me that you forgave too quickly and stuffed alot of the pain. The EA was not sorted through completely and dealt with properly.

I also have the concern, and this is my humble opinion, that the EA could also have been a PA. Have you asked lots and lots of questions on this and do you feel they were answered honestly? I don't want to alarm you, but my learning of my FWH's A was similar. I found emails that were inappropriate for a married man. It didn't even sound like my H. When I confronted him, he said they were just friends. I allowed him to remain in contact with OW. After continuing to monitor his behavior and their situation I hired a PI. It was a PA.

Now that was my sitch and it may NOT be yours, but WSs lie. So I would be very aware. Once they think they may be caught, they go further underground.If the OW knows you know, she will definitely stop the trash talk that you can see. Be careful here. LIke I said just my HO.

Now if it is what he said it is, then it's time you rock the boat. Don't trade calm for recovery. You won't ever get there. NC is a MUST. He must be made aware that an EA is just as bad as a PA. It was an A! It has caused you great pain and the resentment is beginning to come to the surface.

Read here and get your hands on Surviving an A. Read it and have him read it if possible.

Recovery from an A is very difficult as you can see. The steps you need to take make all the difference. Nothing can be skipped. Good luck and keep posting.

ng, this tells me that you both have a very warped view of adultery. you are worried about upsetting him while you are on the floor bleeding. EVery contact with his OW is a new knife wound to you. Yet, you are worried about him being upset.

Let me put this in proper perspective for you, and when you see him next, I would appreciate it if you would show him this video and then follow with the discussion I suggested above: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6806_inf.html

Adultery is as traumatic as being RAPED or the death of a child. It is probably the most horrible thing that will ever happen to you. People commit suicide, have nervous breakdowns and suffer years of post traumatic stress disorder from being the victim of adultery.

This is what has happened TO YOU, ng. You have been RAPED. But in your case, your H continues to rape you daily, telling you it is not rape anymore, but is just casual sex. Nothing has changed except for how he defines the rape.

Putting his adultery into this proper perspective makes your fear about his feeling "punished" even more ludicrous. That is like not calling the police on the rapist because you don't want him to "feel punished."

You are falling apart and drowning in pain and resentment, and this is exactly why. You are being RAPED on a daily basis and are trying to accept it as normal in order to accomodate your rapist. That is what is truly happening here.

Thank you so much all of you for your quick & detailed responses. I've managed to have a quick read of them & they are telling me pretty much what I already thought. I need to spend some time going over them thoroughly & looking at the links you have mentioned so that I can consider how to take the next step. I really appreciate your input & I'll update you as to how things progress.
NG