Struggled at the title for this one...

There is so much great insight and advise for plan A and plan B out here in the forum. What about after that?

This is my take and sometimes I feel that I will be in this same place 5 years from now if I'm way off base.

It seems that the way a BS gets through this is by pushing back the negative thoughts and feelings that creep in all the time to the very back of their mind. They make every effort to push those feeling back so they can feel something anything else. My H is trying to understand and make every effort to make this work. I am also trying. We read the books, me more than him. We discuss and look at the whys, when I need to. We work on our EM, he more than I. There are many times I have to force myself to do this.

Am I wrong in thinking that this is it? That is what we do for years and then you asses where you are? I guess what I'm trying to say is that the BS has to push out the reality of the pain and sadness and pretend that it will get better. Then in years maybe it will.

Would love some advise from those in this place and beyond.
DTR

Had to laugh at my misspelling of "access" Maybe a Freudian slip.

Anyone out there post A and B and working on it? Is this what the BS has to do to make it?

I felt the same way, like it was just me trying to "get over" it, just pushing those feelings away, just trying to look only at the present and to the future.

Of course, then I found out that he's still in an A, so who knows. I hope that you are able to find some peace, I'm sure there are some folks on this board that can provide some insight.

Sorry to hear that your H is still in the A. I appreciate your thoughts and hope things will make a turn for you

I hope there is someone out there that is in this situation where I am and will either wack me or say yes that for the most part that is what you as the BS do.

I'm not really sure I know what the "work" is if it isn't reading, talking about it, discussing whys and hows and trying to meet each others EN's. While doing those things I think as the BS you have to supress most of your day to make it happen.

Help
DTR

Calling all BS where the WS is working to make things right.

Am I confused on how you make it through the next few years or am I missing what the "work" really is?

Love the idea of setting the bar high from other posts and feel that I'm doing that. I'm not settling for anything less than the best from my WH. Just hoping to get a handle on making it through. Pushing the sadness and anger to the back looks to me to be the only way.
thanks
DTR

Hello dtr...

I was where you are for fifteen months after d-day. My wife had a very brief EA, and I held it against her for fifteen months while she did everything humanly possible to gain my forgiveness and atone for what she did. She read all the books and worked so hard to fulfill my needs while I did nothing but take, take, and then take some more. She eventually gave up trying.

She filed for divorce last week, but I have somehow managed to get her to put her plans on hold and have been "plan A-ing" my a$$ off...or maybe plan R-ing (for recovery) my a$$ off. Whatever I am doing, it seems to be working, and, you know what? It feels good! It feels so good to make her smile again, to make her happy, to feel her arms around me holding me tight.

But, I had to make the choice. I had to choose to get on with my life. I had to choose to not be bitter, not to dwell, not to replay the lies she told over and over again. I had to consciously make that choice, or I would have lost her forever.

It really helped me to read Surviving an Affair, as so many in here recommend. It also helped me to take a long hard look at my not-so-beautiful self, and to finally confront the fact that I was partially responsible for her affair. Yes, it was her choice, her very bad choice, but it was a choice she would not have made had our marriage been a better place for her to be. I won't go into details, but I neglected her terribly and probably emotionally abused her; her giver got tired of giving, making it easy for her taker to take and then to justify.

It also helped me to step back and really look at my wife. She is a good girl. She never lied before her A, and she hasn't lied since. She's never stolen anything in her life. She's never cheated on her taxes. She's kind. She's generous. She's a great mother and an all-around wonderful person. Having an affair was so out of step with her personality. It just wasn't her.

Is your husband basically a good man who made a terrible mistake? Or is he a rotten husband who cheated on a perfect wife? Only you know the answer to that. If it's the former, then let him know you appreciate his efforts. Don't reject his efforts to reconnect. If it's the latter, then you have a very hard decision to make.

down, recovery usually takes 18 to 24 months. The pain starts lessening around the 12 month mark for many, IF the marriage is really in recovery.

You don't ever pretend you are not in pain, you just don't act out in destructive ways in response. You don't "pretend it will get better," you and your H work on MAKING it better and maybe someday it will. There are no guarantees, but many here who have followed this program have GREAT marriages today. I DO.

That being said, you are not obliged to stay and do anything. Staying and working through this in your marriage is entirely VOLUNTARY. If you do not choose to stay and work on your marriage, no one would fault you for leaving.

There's a book that's been referred to here in the forums, but I can't remember the name, but it describes four stages of anger, I think.

Melody, can you help a failing memory with the title of that book and/or author.

Anyway, my point is, a BS has several stages of healing that should be fully experienced. To skip over and rush the stages is to deny yourself the opportunity to heal properly.

Just my 2 cents worth...

SD

SD, Are you referring to the 5 stages of grief?

First conceived by Elizabeth Kubler-Ross in her book "On Death And Dying" the 5 stages of grieving have since been embraced by many others including James Dobson and Paul Meier. Originally Ms Kubler-Ross described the 5 stages as related to one's own imminent death. It was later expanded by others to encompass the loss of someone close and has gained wider acceptance as applying to all grieving for whatever reason, though it was not intended as such by the originator.

Since the pain of betrayal has been likened to what one feels at the loss of a child or other loved one, and since that really is what occurs, the loss of love we once thought to be so real, the steps do seem to apply to infidelity.

The Five Stages of Grieving are:

The Five Stages

An application to those 5 stages as well as attempts at recovery that helped me a lot (updated recently):

BP's Toolkit v2.0

DTR,

Part of recovering from infidelity is learning to express the feelings of hurt and regret without resorting to anger, since Angry Outbursts are Love Busters. It becomes necessary to not repress the feelings, but to express them in such a way that the wayward spouse can accept them and by expressing them the betrayed spouse can heal from them.

This requires that BOTH the BS and WS be actively working together at recovery. Until the WS has completed withdrawal and begins to re-engage the BS, this is not possible. Until then, attempts to deal with the BS's pain go unheard, misunderstood and likely unexpressed because of lack of acceptance by the WS.

I ain't easy...But with time it becomes bearable.

Mark

Mark, very likely that's what I remember. I obviously didn't read it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, accept a kind thank you for making my post make at least a little sense...

DTR--

In my opinion and experience, you're not wrong in your "take" on this -- it's hard work.

I think where you (and I) are struggling is in how to deal with the latent feelings or remorse, anger, resentment, uncertainty and fear.

Somedays, it just weighs so heavily on our hearts -- the realization that this is always part of our history, our story.

For me, at the one year point, it was about realization that I've made my decision to stay in the marriage. It was as if a statute of limitations had expired on my "right" to divorce her because of her affairs. I know there is no such thing, but I feel as if I would be at fault for staying married to her, promising to recover, only to divorce her a year later when she could have moved on.

But dealing with the emotional burden doesn't have to be an exercise in stuffing it down. There are times when I need to express to my wife that I'm having a rough day. Other times, I need to work through the feelings by concentrating on what I'm doing right in the marriage, what I'm doing right for my wife.

We do feel sad and angry and afraid -- these are normal feelings. It's what we do with those emotions that define our chances for success. Too often we (me included) stuff them down until we can't stuff anymore and they spill over into other areas of our lives and interaction with our spouse. Before long, we're in an argument and it feeds fuel to the anger over the affair....out pops a Love Buster.

I have tried, with limited success, at getting my wife to understand that when I'm having a bad time or day, I'm not trying to remind her about how selfish her affairs were or how much damage they caused. I really just need her to ramp up the EN-meeting for a time.

Have you and your husband discussed what he can do for you when you're having a bad day or are triggered or just feeling the weight of the situation?

I feel for you and can relate, DTR. Somedays I think I made a mistake by staying in my marriage. Other days, I know I made the right decision to stay. Gradually, the days I'm glad I stayed are outnumbering the ones where I wish I had left.

It will happen for you, too.

Blessings

I feel for you and can relate, DTR. Somedays I think I made a mistake by staying in my marriage. Other days, I know I made the right decision to stay. Gradually, the days I'm glad I stayed are outnumbering the ones where I wish I had left.

This statement speaks volumes to me right now.

I'm finding that a major bottleneck in our recovery, right now, is MY learning curve in dealing with my emotions, anger, resentment, and FEAR.

I'm also finding that I need to be able to tell my husband what he does NOW that hurts me. I also NEED to tell him when I feel he is doing a remarkable job. Regardless of what he is NOT doing, he IS doing so much, and I must recognize that. Put the TAKER away, or at least at bay.

I'm currently living it one day at a time. I do not look to tomorrow for much of anything, except scheduling. I do not fill myself with expectation, as they are scenarios extrapolated from memory or from fantasy. I am doing what is REAL, and that requires living in the moment.

I can safely say that I could be doing more, and I will. I spend a lot of time dipping my toe in the pool; what fun is that, while everybody else is cannonballing into the pool, and playing chicken, I'm standing by the edge, waiting for the water to bend to my will and get warmer. NOT!

(((DTR)))

It is hard work and based on some recovered marriages here, you can get over this.
I will tell you that IMHO and based on my time here, that there are many people that are spending all their time trying to just get over it. I don't believe it is all just a matter of choosing to do so. My IC has spoken of certain "minds" having a tougher time than others with this stuff. If you are a detail oriented person that is always thinking...you have trouble shutting your mind off...these things will be tougher to get over. Obvioulsy the more there is to forget...what happened in the affair...also plays a big role.
Find ways to share your feelings with your H that are not LB's....but if one comes out on a rare occasion, do not beat yourself up. You are only human and sometimes your triggers will elicit an anger response. Just don't go overboard with it and find better ways to handle that trigger in the future.
Also, make sure that you are doing what you can to limit triggers in your life. If you live in an area that is full of bad memories...move.

I wish you peace.

MEDC

Hi Beowulf,
I appreciate your point of view but have to say that much of what you expressed frustrated me. I think our situations differed in several ways.
You see, I didn't neglect him and I treated him with kindness even when he was extremely rude and selfish. I was more the giver throughout our marriage and my WH would agree with that. He was not always a hateful person, father and husband but was very selfish and did things to get what he wanted. He is trying to be a different person now and I really appreciate that and do tell him that often. Our D use to say to me "why is daddy such a jerk?" She has not said that in months. She doesn't know what happened but notices the differences.
I don't think in my situation it is a simple as you make your situation sound. I guess I don't feel that I deserved any of this. I'm not saying I was perfect. I didn't always do the things that I should have but I didn't deserve to be treated in this way.

I do believe that he is basically a good man. I hope that he has truly learned someting from this and the changes our girls and I see are for the long haul.

Mark,
Thanks for your comments and insight. The stages of grieving I could relate to completely. A friend who has been through this and the death of a child said that the process is much the same. The pain you feel from the A is worse in that someone you loved inflicted it on you and it wasn't an act of God. I think that is one of the hardest things to work through. How someone that you think loves you the most could hurt you so devistatingly.

I am really trying to work on not letting the anger and hurt feeling become Outbursts and Love Busters. It is a real challenge to not let that happen.

I thank God everyday that my H did not go through the lengthy withdrawal that so many here discuss. I don't think I could have lived through that. I was lucky in the way the OW lives in another state and the times he spent with her were not easily arranged. I really feel that if she had lived in our town that he would not be here with me today. I think he would have picked her...Not forever but at the time. Ouch!!

Artor,
You are so right on the struggle to deal with remorse, anger and resentment.
The one year point looms ahead and I have made the decision to stay and work on this marriage. At the beginning of this I said I would never divorce but I feel a bit different now. I will never go through this again and my H knows it. I felt a sense of relief when we discussed it. It is the one sure thing in this whole mess. I will not give a third chance.

I have a hard time telling my H what would help when I'm having a bad day or triggers because sometimes it doesn't seem as though anything could help.

I like the idea of concentrating on what I'm doing right for our marriage in an effort to help with my emotional burdens.

Thanks again for your thoughts and understanding.

DTR,

[color:"blue"]"At the beginning of this I said I would never divorce but I feel a bit different now. I will never go through this again "[/color]

Pretty much the same thoughts I have had. I see the progress; I know we are "in recovery;" and I also know that there will not be a "next time." I have worked so hard at learning about what happens that leads to an affair and have struggled mightily to see to it that those things are short circuited and have spent so much time working with her to ensure that she understands the same things I have come to understand that if it were to happen again, there would be no excuse in the world that would make me stay.

I smiled to myself the day I heard Dr Harley say on his radio program that if his wife had an affair at this point in the marriage, he'd divorce her.

Once you know what to do and how to do it right, there is no excuse for doing it any other way.

Before the affair we had never discussed what ENs are or how to meet them. We had never talked about how it is each one's responsibility to ask when their ENs are not getting met. We had not described Love Busters and therefore could not tell each other when one manifested itself.

But now, it is sink or swim. We have the tools. We have the methods. We have the agreement to do those things. Not doing them is a violation of our agreement. She knows that all she needs to do is mention it when there is a problem.

If it happens again, it will be "B'bye!"

Mark

At one year out, I was still struggling. I felt the pain daily, and wondered often whether or not it was the right decision to stay in.

It was. Today I say it was. Most every day I say it was.

When he's being a jerk (rarely, now!), I might have a flash and think, "I might want to strangle him", but I don't think, "I should have left him when I had the chance."

Because the reality is, I am in the marriage by choice

every day.

And he is also in the marriage by choice every day.

We will both be here until one of us changes our mind and leaves, I would suppose. I don't see that happening. We have set ourselves on a new course. The affair happened, and I would have chosen for it not to happen. But the aftermath brought us to MB. It forced us to look at the cracks in our foundation, and we made the repairs. Now, we both feel like things are on solid ground again.

So, despite his needing to be strangled from time to time, I wouldn't think of leaving or having made the wrong decision in staying. I can't second-guess what I knew in my heart was right for me nearly two years ago.


As for "if it happened again". I told him this:

If you have another affair, I will walk away from this house, and leave every single thing behind. I will take nothing out of this marriage, because there is nothing from you that will hold a single memory that I would want to take into my new life - a life I would have without any trace of you in it. You can have it all - the house, the cars, the furniture, the photos, and all the rest - including all the debts and your problems. It would have the stench of infidelity and lies all over it anyway and I would not want any of it near me. You and your new woman could go through it all, as though I were dead, because in effect I would be dead to you. You would never talk to me again, never hear from me again. An attorney would contact you, and I would not appear in court. Don't call, write, email, or try to find out about me through our children. I would be dead to you. That is how things would be - you would no longer have any right to know of me or my life after another affair, that is the choice you would make. Do it knowing this.


His response was silence, and he cried.

He said it would not be worth forever losing me. Not for anything in the world.

I call it "scorched Earth". He understands my position. To do this to him hits the one weakness he really has - fear of loneliness from his family.

SB