Okay, I'm posting a new thread b/c everybody seems to be stuck on the whole EN issue on my other thread.... which is no doubt a good debate and I thank you all for your advice, thoughts, prayers etc.

But what I would really like to know is if anyone else thinks that their WS's OP is playing them..... Could I be totally wrong in my thoughts???? I don't know why this is bugging me so much but it is!

Read thread "I just don't get it" to hear my story....

I don't need to read your story to answer the question. Sure it happens. Both men and women play the game, with some level of percentage advantage for men. Read The Other Woman for tales of woe. There is an old post floating around with a title like "You're Special."

I had a friend of mine who just passed early (Stroke). He was played by a Ukrainian female critter. We used to talk about it at length. He finally bailed on her. He more or less went back to his wife. I say more or less because I never did find out exactly what the renewed relationship was. The critter went on to marry a local guy who had owned a car dealership and who was worth a ton of money. He died a short while later. She thought she was rich. It didn't work out that way. They weren't married long enough.

Anyway, when a female critter plays a guy it is usually for security, most usually represented by money. When a guy plays a woman, it can be about money, but most usually it is ego hits.

See to answer the question, you gotta think about what is in it for the person who is doing the playing. Of course some females can play a guy for the ego hit. Of course some guys will play for the money, but usually its females playing a guy for money and a guy for the ego hit. I am sure there are other reasons.

Larry

I think she is doing it for the ego hit b/c I've met her before and she seemed to be the kind of person who needs attention from other men in order to feel good about herself so something along those lines. I saw her hanging on other men, married men even and she would totally straighten up as soon as their wives walked in the room. Not to mention the way she was talking to me seemed like she was totally stuck on herself (and I overheard a conversation between her and someone else again talking about herself... how she 'looks' like a sz 5) She seems to be a very selfish person.... I have also seen pics of her and her H since the A began with my H and they look incredibly happy together and I've seen comments left to her by her H that were quite very sweet (myspace). I know that her H has money...... I just don't get what she's doing with my H. I really think she is just leading him on, but my H actually believes he is in love with her!! I'm not at all excusing my H's behavior but I really hate that she's doing this to him!!! to me!!! to my daughter!!! It's bad enough that she's destroying her own family!!! Oh, yeah, her pic on her myspace is one of her standing with her arm behind her back, causing her breasts to stick out. She has to be playing him, right????

cincvhouse--

OK, the OW is all about herself. She uses men to make herself feel good. The attention, the fawning, the stares, the sex . . . all because she needs attention.

She's playing your husband.

But your husband is playing her as well....

He's displaying no better character than she is.

It is very understandable and desirable to focus all the blame and fault on the "aggressive / pursuing tramp of the other woman", but, it takes two to have an affair.

Your husband knows she is married and he sure as h311 knows HE'S married.

Don't pay any attention to the OW, her character, her looks, her mannerisms . . . anyone looking at her with all their blood flowing to their brain see her as a desperate, insecure and undesirable flirt.

You wonder "How can my husband fall for an ACT like hers?" "Is he that stupid he can't see she's playing him?"

Don't dismiss the conversation on your other thread.

ONE of the things you do need to pay attention to is the Emotional Needs of your husband she is meeting. Admiration (does she tell him how strong he is or good looking or manly or charming)? Sexual Fulfillment? Recreational Companionship?

Your husband clearly isn't thinking right -- it's common of wayward spouses to be a bit addled in their thinking and not "see" what the rest of us are seeing. But what he does see is that some NEED of his is getting met by this OW.

This doesn't justify or excuse the affair -- you made a vow to each other to be faithful in marriage and he has broken that vow. Part of restoring your marriage is restoring the relationship. You each need to pay attention to the principles Dr. Harley outlines -- one of which is meeting Emotional Needs.

Again, this doesn't mean the affair is your fault for not meeting his needs. You may have been meeting many of them -- the affair is his fault, his decision.

Is he willing to go to counseling? Is he still in contact with her?

Be strong, cincvhouse -- it's an uphill battle against the fog and addiction of the affair.

Blessings

I'm not at all dismissing my other thread although I still can't figure out what EN's I was missing. That's why I was hoping that after reading my story know what I know maybe someone can give me a clue, but like I said I am stuck on the OW and why on earth my H would fall for her 'game' and I was hoping that I'm not the only one who thinks she's just playing him.

I know that my focus should be on restoring our marriage and definantly not her.

I hate that there's no reasoning with him and no, he won't go to counseling. His family has been doing a lot of 'encouraging' so to speak... sometimes in a positive way but sometimes they'll say things to make it hurt just a little ya know. They are 100% behind restoring the marriage. -and I am very grateful for that.

Yes, he's still in contact with her.

And I know that the A was HIS decision.

Thanks so much for the replies!!! It's very much appreciated!!

Hi cincvhouse:

Unfortunately, there is only one "expert" on your husband's EN's and that is your husband.

You are the next person in line to know them.

If you want to look at is as who's playing who, they're playing each other.

She's getting what she wants out of him: maybe a sense of self-importance or ego boost knowing your husband would choose her over his marriage (I'm guessing at that).

He's getting what he wants out of her: maybe a bit of the same -- a woman who would choose him over her husband or excitement or lust or whatever is driving him (I honestly don't know).

If you think your husband is more emotionally invested in the relationship than she is ("he thinks he's in love with her"), then you're probably right. I'm pretty sure she knows this and is leading him on in that fashion.

There is no reasoning with a wayward spouse. He's in a fantasy land that he has no motivation to leave. That's part of the role of exposure -- let the real world leak into the affair and help him see it for the fantasy (e.g., not going to exist in the real world) that it is.

Have you spoken with his family as to ways they can be more constructive in their help?

Plan A is about reminding him how pleasant the marriage can be and invite him to drift toward the edges of his fog so he can see the real world and real loving wife he has. If he won't leave the affair, then Plan B is the 2x4 upside his head that also helps protect your sense of love for him.

How old are your children? How are they dealing with this?

I'm sorry for my failing memory -- did you say if the OW's husband knew about the affair?

Blessings.

I think my WS's OP is playing him. I think she's jealous, she sees a man at home with his kids, being a father to his kids. She didnt have a father at home for her, nor do any of her kids have a father at home for them. So its like, why should my kids (well I totally doubt it has anything to do with me personally) have a dad at home. She don't feel bad, and he makes money, and he was vunerable to her advances and she got him.

Fact: she makes bad choices in men. None of them treat her right. She hangs around the wrong crowd of people, therefore find these NO-GOOD men. The only reason she knows my H (A-GOOD-MAN, i know he cheated but he's a good man) is because my H is best friends with another GOOD-MAN that's related to her Skank @$$. So we all no each other in this circle. She saw how he was taking care of home and wanted to have that so bad. And it wasn't hard for her to get. She spent $$ on him, (which he just thinks that is awesome) and whatever else she did. She's 8 years older than him so she is well experience in the Game. 34 and can't keep a man, but I believe she's 34 and doesn't want to keep a man. I see her as getting bored and restless with my WS and finally cheating on him too...which i do truly believe in my heart that my WS wasn't the only man she was seeing at the time.

Maybe this is fact: (he say/she say) My brother and friends that are 34 or 35 in age went to school with her and say she's really wild and been so her whole life. That's why I say its maybe fact, is my brother being nice by talking about her (i doubt it) or is he telling the awful truth.

According to my WH, he doesn't believe he's being played, she loves him and cares about him and only wants to treat him right. Soooo he knows her personally more than I do. All I know about her is the outside and can make my conclusions from that. So who's more right....WH or me? But yes, I think she's fake and if given the opportunity she would have eventually broken his heart.

well, H is saying that I didnt' do anything wrong and when he does tell me things like 'we have nothing in common' and some of the other stuff he says he either can't tell me or he changes his story etc.... so I don't know.... not to mention I really thought I had him spoiled... I do know what his 'love languages' are and I have always tried my best to meet them not in fear of an A but b/c I love him.... I would even stay up late, lose sleep just so I could lavish attention on him.... I don't get it? What was I missing???

I speak to my WH's fam, actually Mom every day... if I don't call her she calls me. She recently enlisted her oldest son to help b/c my H truly admires his big bro and other than just hitting some pressure points and talking to him on a reg basis nothing more constructive has been thought of yet.... any suggestions???

Our daughter is only 10 months.... I have to admit WH has lost a bit of interest in her and it absolutely kills me. His mom really got a hold of him for that and he has been doing somewhat better but I know he can do better b/c he has before the A. DD gets upset when he doesn't spend time with her although sometimes she chases (crawls) after him now lol like "hey I wasn't done!" lol

yes, I did expose to OW's H but it obviously didn't work b/c they are still talking behind his back and I have now been blocked and I have yet to find another way to communicate with him.

I have been doing the best I can to show him that I am obviously the better choice. I'm not really doing anything I wouldn't normally do but I'm also making sure I don't let things slide (i.e. oops I forgot to wash your uniform etc) He gets home cooked meals every night plus I make him a lunch to take to work with him every day, the house is kept extremely clean, I get dressed (nicely I might add) everday with make up on teeth brushed whitened etc, I have fun with our daughter and have fun of my own too. I do my best to talk to him everyday, encourage him, touch him affectionately but right now he's not having any of that! I also try and show him that I do take an interest in the things he does.... baseball!! I watch him fly his RC plane out back, watch the fighters take off etc. I am totally open for more suggestions if you have any.... esp since he is so withdrawn it's really hard to meet someone's EN's when they won't let you!!

cincvhouse--

How does doing all you're doing (Plan A) make you feel?

Are you doing it to "win" him back?

You said,


This can be a great source of discouragement. At least it was for me. You go full-throttle, putting your very best effort forward and he STILL chooses the OW. Sort of leaves you feeling he must really think she is that much better than you.

The trouble is, for him, that he's looking at her and you through the addiction and clouded judgement of the affair. You, his wife, mother of his child, friend, lover, help-meet are so far superior to the OW that anyone can see it -- except someone under the influence of an affair.

I'm not saying your doing the wrong thing, I just worry about the long-term impact such effort will have. This is why Dr. Harley says Plan-A has a limited life-span.

How far into his military career is your husband? Is he near retirement? Sometimes life changes, such as retirement or being passed-over for promotion or a command position, etc, can cloud judgement.

Let me ask one other somewhat personal question: pre-affair, who wore the pants in your home? I ask this because I was active duty for nearly 10 years (am in the reserves now). I know that all the TDYs (especially with today's OpsTempo) and military routine (24x7) can make it hard for a military member to feel engaged at home. The non-military spouse establishes routines with the kids, pays the builds, has a schedule and habits that the military spouse has to fit within. Sometimes, coming home from a multi-month TDY, I would feel like a visitor in my own home. I'm not faulting my wife -- she had a life and kids to contend with and couldn't drop her life because "I'm home for a couple of months".

I'm not saying you were domineering or oppressive -- I don't know you or your husband. But I know I wasn't the only military husband to feel that his civilian-wife wore the pants sometimes. I commanded people at work, made decisions, ran meetings and exercises, etc. But at home, I had my life dictated for me.

I'm also not saying that's the healthiest of practicalities, but it isn't uncommon.

This, and the presence of a newborn and all the responsibilities and committment he/she symbolizes, could increase the sense of freedom and self-determination the affair provides. May help explain why he made references to "going out and drinking" or "hanging with the guys".

Just my thoughts.

Blessings

(By the way, I live overseas and so I am asleep while most of you guys are on here so if you wonder why on earth I always take so long to answer back, there's your answer.)

I can see how plan A can work and given the other advice out there I think by far this is the best (Dr. Harley's) and besides it's most definantly worth a try b/c I believe our marriage is worth it, WH is worth it, DD is worth it and I'm worth it. I'm planning on doing Plan A for about 3-4 months or so.... maybe even 6 months b/c I know a lot of marriage counselors will say to work for 6 months before giving up. I'm strong and determined so I think I'll be okay. I have plenty of support from friends and family. I want my marriage to work and at this point I wouldn't be able to fight for my marriage if I left.... that's why you have to do Plan A first, or atleast that's my understanding of it.

WH is somewhat new to the mil, only 3 1/2 yrs but he's already an E-5.... as I've said before he is very ambitious but of course since OW he just doesn't seem to care anymore. He treated ALS as a joke!!!

He wore the pants in the home. He's in a job right now that he doesn't go TDY very often at all either.

I really think that his behavior does have a lot to do with 'adjusting to married life with a baby" He has even said it himself, although the A was already going on so it could be another one of his so-called 'justifications' for the A, but I kind of think there is some truth in that one. I just don't know what to do to make that better. I mean, it's just a part of growing up.... it's life.

I got another note from him this morn. I had left him a short love note filled with some words of affirmations (how I believe in him etc) and he wrote back to "stop this crap. you shouldn't love me you should hate me and the fact that you don't is weird." It seems to me he has been feeling rather guilty these past few weeks and that's why he's been so withdrawn. I'm not sure what to do except to keep on with plan A. I think this is a good thing, a step in the right direction, but I don't want to get my hopes up though either.

thanks

While you are wondering about EN's and whether or not she is playing him, the affair is probably becoming entrenched.

Have you exposed the affair to the other woman's husband? Have you exposed the affair to the military?

waoh... I had a horrible day today and all b/c I won't 'support' his A. I got a nice little e-mail from him where I found out that he has now rewritten not only our marriage history but our entire history all together. I read on here before that this would happen so you would have thought that I would have been prepared but I feel like he really hit me below the belt on that one. As I have said before I've been working on Plan A and he has noticed but he thinks I'm in denial or that I'm just pretending that everything's fine (which is really making him mad, I guess) or that I'm okay with the fact that he's having an A and he tells me that I'm crazy... that I should hate him etc. Oh, what to do????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

I guess I should state what I meant that I won't support his A... I found a calling card which I know he uses to call her... I don't know where he goes to call her yet but anyways... I took it and of course now he's pi$$ed... so I know you're not suppose to do any LB's during Plan A but you can't sit there and support the A either so what should I have done???? -and what do I do about him thinking I'm crazy business??

shred the card.


To assist him in recalling the truth about your marriage, bring out photos, videos, etc., of times past. You don't need to show them to him. Just have them out, and let him "catch" you looking at them. Be smiling, and when he catches you, casually say, "I'm looking at the happy times we had together. Remember this time? We were happy then! It was so fun, remember?"

He is going through something called consistency error - a memory issue - which paints the feelings now as feelings before in the past. You can help him break that error, by casting doubt in the brain - show those pictures to him. Talk about things you two did together during happy times. Talk about happy trips, funny things that happened, fun times together, parties that were a blast, whatever you can think of that were HAPPY and LOVING times. Also, bring up places that you had sex that was outstanding and unique.

Make those images stand out in his head, because it results in the brain processing messages that question the error.

That forces things to happen, when doubt is cast in the brain.

That's part of why Plan A works. Stay the course as long as you can.


Also, he's telling you that you're crazy because you have reacted in a way that is contrary to the way he thought you would. It doesn't fit the fantasy.

Good for you.

SB

thank you so much SB. I actually did do a 'remember when' e-mail, but it was when all of this first started and while he was still in the 'wanting his cake and eating it too' phase. I'll do it again and keep it up only istead of e-mailing him I'll try your plan.

I really hate that he only hears what he wants to hear. He takes things people say (not just me) and makes it into something they're not or to fit his little scheme of things. ARGH!!

No, no, no!!!!!!
no!

Have you been reading any of the books that are recommended on this site? Obviously, the biggest recommendation is Surving An Affair. That is an absolute must. But another good one is "Divorce Proofing your Marriage" and one of the first things this book will tell you is "stop saying I love you" and "don't try to show him pictures of your weddding, and happier times."
Because - when you continue to say "I love you" you only remind him that he used to love you, but he doesn't anymore. Or, in a case where he has compeltely re-written history, you are probably calling attention to the fact that he thinks he does not love you, but you love him. You can say "I admire you" "I beleive in you" and I "beleive in our marraige" wihtout saying I love you all the time

Also - the pictures thing - you have no idea what sort of trigger that would be for him. Perhaps he will look at the pictures and say "I wasn't really happy, I was only faking it" OR he could look at the pictures and say "yeah, I was happy then, but I'm not anymore, so get over it"

here is the thing, the books, and the advice, all come from 100's of similar stories. They know what they are talking about.

In my opinion - the best thing you can do right now is just be open, and honest with him. And keep it simple. "Honey, I know you think I am crazy, but I believe in our marriage, and I believe in you" simple responses and then just leave it alone. No lengthy talk. Do not try to teach him, or argue with him. Just give him a few simple responses each time, and then leave him alone. He is at war with his own mind right now - let him fight that battle for himself.

And for heavens sake, expose to his Chain of Command.

Cinc,

I see that you aren't posting on your other thread, and wanted to make sure you saw this.

cinc,


Quote:
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My H is military. OW and her H were military until recently. branch AF I went to another wife who went to her H and it got ran up the CoC that way. I did show what little evidence I had at that point.


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I don't see that you have actually done the job on this here. I am an officer in the military and I can tell you that in almost every case, a supervisor is not going to act on heresay like this. Dealing with infidelity can be pretty darn harsh in the military and I imagine in some ways, your husbands commander is HOPING that you won't come in and see him/her about this. Why, because they know that they will have to take some action.

IMHO, you personally scheduling an appointment to see your WH's commander or top NCO will be more effective in ending the A that anything else you have done to this point. Yes, it is going to Pi$$ your WH off and bring some heat down on him. Heck, if he continues, it could even result in serious career ending disciplinary action against him.

Exposure here is a very powerful tool. Use it.

Just remember, your action or inaction at this point can help bust up the affair, or let it become entrenched as Believer already indicated.

The farther your WH goes down the road, the longer the trip home.

Who

Him saying that you should hate him I think is him feeling guilty about the affair. Affairs are continued by rationalizing....you are giving him no aimo...so he's mad because he can't complain about you anymore....keep going with Plan A.

Okay, I am still here. WH's been home the last few days and I really haven't had the opp. to really get on here and post or read very much. He's still withdrawn but we did sort of hang out a few times (watching movies) and we even talked a little.... but I also know that he's still talking to OW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

thanks so much for all the replies.... I'm listening.

I have another question is there any place on here or maybe you can give some advice on what the WH's family can do to help? So, far they've been really great, very supportive and giving good solid advice but of course there's no reasoning with him.

thanks