How then will you every really know that it is over if you think it has gone deep underground?

She has no time to do anything.

Also I never heard what good a letter would do over her telling him on the phone the same thing. She has been exposed to everyone and she wishes it had never happened.

I just talked to her step-mom who she confides in and she advised the same thing. Just stay the course and she does wish it had never happened and it wont happen again. She almost lost our oldest daughter over this as well and she knows the consequences now.

I do plan on asking again soon for her decision if she is going to do whatever it takes because all she keeps saying is that she is doing the best she can right now. And i believe her. She has been depressed her whole life and lost her Mom and first husband tragically. This has really taken a toll on her and she wasnt out @#$%^&* around just becuase she needed some fun.

I had caused her much pain by pulling my love back and love busting alot. It was her response because she was looking of how to get out and she was done with me.

My mother in law is telling me to not try and expose anymore because if it does get back to her then it will be all over. Not because she is trying to keep him as a boyfriend or protect him, but it will bring us back to the beginning and she cant mentally handle that at all right now. It is over and I know it in my heart.

She has already been talking to me about future plans and with her step mom as well. That she feels we are getting back to normal in a way and that is what she needs. She is on very shakey ground mentally and if I keep pushing and rushing things it will be over because at the beginning after D-day that is what happened.

I kept pushing for more to quick and she had to run away.
She cant just jump back into bed with me. I have to settle for an occasional hug and do my part of whatever it takes to make this work.

She is not built that way. She is stubborn and doesnt want to keep admitting she was wrong. She doesnt want to "give in again to my demands" it needs to be her decision of what she wants and needs.

Seems alot of you are still very angry as well and keep wanting me to still be angry and continue to dwell on the affair. I know it was wrong what she did but she knows that too.......what good would the letter do? She has already said all she can and do all she can right now about it. She is trying to get another job but that doesnt happen immediately either.

I feel I must understand that if she does in fact want this she will do the right thing now and if she doesnt.....she wont but I guarentee I will know and find out. It is not in my control and there is no way it can be. That is what I meant about being in God's hands. If it is meant to be it will happen and I will make sure I am not a doormat. I am a very smart clever individual and I knew immediately when this 1st A started and feel I caught her early enough to save us.

I hope this does not infuriate alot of you, but I see no sense in dwelling on this mistake. We are in recovery. She just has not verbalized it yet.

oh, and what I keep hearing as well, is that I can never really trust her now whatsoever. Even if she wrote a letter who is to say that will do anything at all. They could just laugh about it if they are still together. We shared a deep, deep connection psychically many times through our marriage and even though it has been marred at times it is still there whether she likes it or not.

We live in such a small community, who is to say their paths will never cross? What I am saying is that if she wants it to happen it will happen no matter what. I have no control over that and it is absurd to think I could.

I really did not want to relive this part of it and now I am hurting again.

Like I said I feel we are in recovery and there is nothing more to do concerning the A. I will probably continue as I have been doing and watching her like a hawk and snooping but that is killing me too.

Because everytime now it brings me much anxiety for nothing and I have found no more evidence.

Most people do not set out to get into an affair. Usually their needs are not being met, they are depressed, vulnerable and unwittingly those emotional needs start to get met by another person other than their spouse.

They don't mean it to happen, they are not evil, are not purposelym wittingly planning the destruction of their spouse and family.

An affair is an addiction. That is why they are so hard to break up. That is why help is needed by the BS.

Go read Denny's thread and see how it started for his wife a couple of years ago.

I hope you are right about this one. Just be deligent and post when needed.

You said you did not want to sweep it under the rug. You said you wanted as much advice as possible.

It is an emotional roller coaster ride and the most painful thing you will probably ever experience, but you will not hurt forever. Your marriage is in jeopardy, of course it hurts like ******.

Hang in there DaC. You are not alone and a lot of the men here can help you with recovery, they have been through it. They'll be along sooner or later.

Thanks, I know....and she is a very very good person. But she already knows she screwed up and plans never to do it again. I just dont see what more I could do right now besides getting a definite answer from her whether she intends to do whatever it takes.

I also feel it could be that if she found out I was still trying to do something about OM that it would show her I am not looking at myself really and blaming others for this mistake. I did cause this to happen. This time it was me and I am doing all I can know to not be like I was to her.

I am a perfectionist and am very hard on everyone, especially myself. She pulled away a long time ago. OM just came along at a vulnerable time and said the right thing.

I am going to let that go, I have no control over that and I see no point in pursuing him or trying to destroy his relationship. Vengence is mine saith the Lord.

I am turning the other cheek but only this once.
If I get the other side smacked its over.

DC, you can ignore the tried and true advice of a professional, Dr. Bill Harley, who specializes in these cases in favor of "advice" from your stepmother and your "friend." Perhaps she is also a psychologist who has 35 years experience saving marriages from infidelity and is giving you good advice. But somehow I doubt it.

Just know that the path you have taken: continued contact with OM and failure to expose the affair is a pretty sure path to failure. You have been told by experienced folks how to save your marriage and it is up to you to use that advice or not.

I do think your choice not to warn the OM's GF is dreadfully cruel, though, and it is surprising to see such heartless callousness coming from a betrayed spouse. His GF may end up being defrauded into marrying this creep because you were too scared of your wife to warn this woman. That is not the kind of thing I would ever want on my conscience.

Well, you did ask for help and advice, right?

You have gotten some excellent, tried and true methods from the folks here.

I don't mean to be insensitive, but it doesn't seem like you really wanted help, you wanted validation that doing nothing will make everything go away.

It won't.

Hopefully, everyone here is wrong and we won't be seeing a D-Day 2 thread from you that the EA has become a full blown PA, with an OC on the way. It has happened here you know.

Who

No, you didn't. She is 100% responsible for the affair, DC. If you have "blamed" someone besides HER for the affair, then she is right, you should STOP. There are 2 ppl responsible, your wife and her boyfriend.


This has nothing to do with "turning the other cheek." There is nothing "Christian" about allowing an affair to remain secret from its victim. This man's GF may end up marrying this man never knowing that he was having an affair with your wife. She may end up defrauded into a marriage becuase you would not warn her.

Secondly, there is nothing 'Christian" about your wife's continued employment at a place where she has had an affair. That is just stupid risk that endangers your marriage and your family. As the man of the family, you should be taking steps to PROTECT your family, not sticking your hand in the sand because you are too scared to rock the boat.

I don't know why you keep talking about "vengence," it is irrelevant to this subject. We are asking you to do something GOOD for your W, the OM, your family and the OM's GF. Exposure will benefit them all. If you feel "vengeful," then you should put it aside.

well said Mel.

It's actually YOU who don't get it. LOL.

You seem to be confused about the motives for the no contact requirement. Please read the advice from Steve Harley about how to end the affair and why the no contact letter is required.

You've made an assumption that those responding to you here are motivated by residual anger or revenge feelings from their own situations. I assure you they are motivated by frustration when they see somebody making the same mistakes they've seen before which usually result in the WS and the OP becoming MORE involved with each other.

But hey, if you've got your heart set on taking all the blame for the choices your WW and the OM have made and most likely will make, then I'm absolutely certain your WW and the OM will be happy to take you up on that offer.

It is admirable that you are willing to take responsibility for the mistakes you made and to fix what you are responsible for. (When you find out your WW and the OM are at it again hopefully you will be a little less willing to take all the blame?)

It is just plain foolish AND irresponsible to fail to do the other necessary steps to ensure your marriage will recover. The no contact requirement is VERY important and it does not hinge upon whether or not you previously failed to meet your spouse's emotional needs.

You don't seem to realize that your wife and the OM are addicts. Regardless of how guilty or repentant your wife feels at the moment, regardless of how well you work to fulfill her needs, regardless of your appeasement even, she is still VERY vulnerable because she's dealing with an addiction. It is your responsibility to help her avoid any possibility of falling off the wagon again. Basically the message you are sending to your wife right now is that if/when she gives in to the temptation to indulge her VERY STRONG CRAVING you will enable her by relieving her of all responsibility for her choice, taking all the blame yourself.

If your wife were addicted to crack cocaine would you be telling her that it's OK to go to the places she had contact with the drug? Would you be so afraid of her anger that you would hesitate to require accountability and avoidance measures? If an expert in addiction treatment told you what was needed to end the addiction would you be content to let the addict pick and choose which parts of the treatment they would follow and which they would reject?

A no contact letter to the OM is absolutely needed. In fact your wife should not continue to work with the OM and you should even move away from that 'small town' so even coincidental contact with the OM can be prevented.

I understand your hesitance to take what may seem like such drastic measures. And no, you aren't going to find very many folks who understand the need for such precautions. (Why do you think the divorce rate is so high in our culture? Partly because what most people presume is adequate protection from the threat of adultery is so inaccurate and seems so extreme...)

"I hear you but I dont think you all get it. We are not all the same"

We are not trying to tell you that all people and marriages are the same. We are telling you that WS's, while under the influence of their addiction, have VERY similar motives and methods.

You spoke of how close you and your wife were. We do understand because we've all been there with our own spouses. Many of us therefore assumed that our spouses would never betray us... or wouldn't do it again... and again...

We've aleady been there - done that PLUS we've been some places that you do NOT want to go!

Many of us have had WS's who swore up and down that a no contact letter wasn't required... we've heard well-meaning friends, relatives, and even marriage counselors assure us that a no contact letter wasn't needed... we've heard our WS promise us it was 'over' and they could be trusted. My WXH even made promises to our daughters that he broke not just once bu so many times that our oldest daughter now has written him off for good. (BTW addicts do things like that - lie to and break promises to the ones that love them.)

Spend more time reading here. You will discover that what WS's typically say and do remarkable similar to what our wife is saying and doing. Pay close attention to the results when posters fail to follow the advice given, thinking their WS is not like the rest.

I definitely appreciate the posts and advice. Not sure when I will ask about this no contact letter. Still think that if they are going to continue this even with me fulfilling her EN than what good does a letter do.

Who knows if she would even send it or if she did they could both just laugh about it as well.

The situation here is that she has lived here her whole life and I have been back here 13 years and we have a beautiful house and farm that she has grown up on since she was 3. We are not going to pick up and move. Jobs are hard to replace as well and she just cant quit.

I have read alot as well and I have also seen here that continueing to dwell on this and bringing it up has driven the waywards and OPs back together as well. Everything is falling back in place and after reviewing her phone records again of the 2 month affair it really seems he was pursueing her.

I plan to find out more but we are making such great progress....she finally has come to me for hugs and this morning she kissed me.

It really seems to me that not every situation fits this text book advice. I would be curious to you all who have spoken up that stuck to this advice of your current relationship status. Did it work for you or are you divorced now.

I was going to start doing the things you all recommended on the day she came to me finally and hugged me and has really come back around. If I would have opened my mouth and demanded the letter that would never have happened and I probably would be talking to a lawyer right now. Believe it or not there are people in this world who make mistakes and can realize it and take care of it themselves and remain strong and vigilant. I have done this many times myself and being sent to counselors did not help.....I helped myself......You can kick addictions on your own and sometimes that is the only way. You have to really want it.


When she does finally verbalize her commitment I will talk to her about the no contact and hopefully find out more of the truth of what was really going on. He might not even have a girlfriend because that info came about on D-day when she was still trying to cover it all up and smooth it over with lies.

She does not want to lose all we have and I am beginnig to believe more and more that she would never jeapordize this again. Like I said before, if she is going to do it she will no matter what I demand. I am not going to blindly trust her soon by no lmeans but it has to start somewhere and not every affair is a classic text book like the posters claim.

one more thing

I feel I needed to wait anyway before asking for a no contact letter because she needed to say whether or not she was committed to us first before she could even write that. She had already given up before this clown showed up in her life. She was done. He was just making it easier and being divorced himself....well misery loves company.

I would also love to hear what the Doctor here would have to say about this situation himself before acting on your advice. She is just now becomming receptive to being able to sit down and rationally talk things out but it is still shakey.

Once I have her strong committment I am sure a no contact letter can be rationalized with her and she will do it for me if that is what it takes for me to start to trust her.

But then again I know logic will tell her that she has already done this and has abided by this, so what is the point.

Thanks

D,


Well you can call and schedule an appointment with him, or call in on the radio show and ask.

Also, I don't believe anyone here advised you to demand anything. Often it is how the request is asked that determines the answer far more that the nature of the request.



This varies, some of us are struggling to completely recover, some of us are recovered, and some of us are divorced. What is important here that determines success or failure, is the level of commitment to the marriage by both the BS and the WS.

Just so you know, in my sitch, my FWH had a lengthly EA that started out as friendly emails with a former college classmate who lived 3000 miles away. Over time it morphed into an 8-month PA. I only wish I had been given the opportunity to stop it in the early stage that you have been given and are chosing to ignore.

No one here is judging you, we are afraid for you. We care and it is difficult to watch you rationalize your situation as completely unique. It isn't, but we all hope that you are right and we are wrong.

Who

Thank you, but I am not trying to rationalize anything. Do I not need for her to be committed to us before she would even consider a letter after she already called it off in the beginning. At D-day she was pleading with me and committed but then I was the one who blew it and was wanting to much too fast. That is when she decided it was over, not that she was choosing another man but rather she was tired of my ******.

The same ****** she has put up with for too many years.

If I start pushing too quick again before she has said she is committed again than I see the same thing happening again.

She does not want another man.

I know that for a fact

The way things are going now, I think we will even be making love again soon. Then I will know for sure and then I will find the time to talk about such measures. What is the rush now? Even if there was a letter now. It is such a small hick town that their paths could cross anywhere. You must believe me when I say she is a very strong person when it comes to something like this. She has been exposed to everyone and would never want to feel that way again and is still feeling such guilt now.

That is the real issue here. She cant handle feeling that guilt again so soon. She will never want her family to feel that again either. I will do all I can but I feel patience is the course for now. Let her come back to me first. If she doesnt then she would never agree to write such a letter in the first place.

Is that not what you all have done first. Your WS has to want the marriage first before they would even write such a letter. How could they say "I love my spouse and what I did was wrong......." when they arent even saying they love you again. What about all the posts I have read where the letter was written early on and then the WS broke the contract anyway. What the ****** difference is it that it is in written form anyway. I think I scared this joker off anyway.

so, my question to you is simple...since you appear to have all the answers ... what are you looking for on this site?

I wish you all the luck on this one.


That alone would drive me crazy.

I don't think that I would have been able to stay in my M if my FWH hadn't been 100 % on board to the point where he offered to quit his job. He did this even tho OW lived 3000 miles away, but she still had his work phone number and email address and he didn't want me wondering if she was contacting him. We got new cell #'s, we changed our home phone and got an unlisted # and dumped our old internet addys.

Recovery was still hard for me. You're tougher than I was.

Who

Exactly....he was 100% on board.

I dont have all the answers, but no one is answering my specific questions.

Doesnt she need to know what she wants first before she would ever write a letter?????

She has to want to first.

I know she wont have a problem with it if she has come back to me and knows what she wants and the fog is just now clearing.

Geez, thats all I get ....wirte a letter...write a letter.
She cant if she doesnt know if she even wants this marriage to work first. I have been doing non stop research and trying to do my part to show her what she will be throwing away....but it is not about the OM.

It was about us all along.....and now it looks as if she is ready to get on board.

Why does everyone want me to rush in and ask this now before she has even decided to stick it out.

All I was looking for was help with patience getting to that point. Everyone seems to want me to take control of the situation and force her into a decision now. So many other posts I have read say you cant force.....because that is what she has railed against from the beginning and that is what her problem with me is about. If I look like I am trying to force her or manipulate her in anyway then that is it for us.

She is not trying to decide between him or me. Yes he was probably fulfilling her EMs at the time but that is over....I am starting to be able to do that now that she is taking down the wall. If I bust it down, then it is over.

Does anyone out there see that? Is there no one here with maybe a different point of view. I dont have a problem with the Plan A---but what comes first. Chicken or the egg?
I need commitment first dont I?

Oh, and another thing. You know if it is not thei OM then it could be anyone if I am not doing my part and she is still not on board yet. He could get his letter and no we will not run from our home..my point is if she is not happy she will stray no matter what and with whomever. Just because he is out of the picture supposedly with this no contact letter (which is by no means a for sure thing, obviously by other posters) she could have another A if she is not happy still. Seems like the most important thing is her commitment and fulfilling her ENs at this point and it is starting to happen.

So tell me then,,,,how do you really know your spouse is totally committed and will never stray again?
Just because they wrote a letter to this one person?
Could they not just be laughing at you behind your back?
All they have to do is contact them again and give them their new # and bang its on again. I dont want to live in constant paranoia. I have to rebuild the trust.

Still my question is....What is the difference with it being written??

Do I have them both sign it in blood in front of a judge or something. ******, they broke the covenant and vows we have taken.. why would they uphold a letter of no contact.

Be for real.

What is the differnce....verbal of written?