D,



Am I mistaken here? I thought she had ended the EA and didn't want any contact with OM. If that is the case, then writing the letter merely affirms that this is true.



Being unhappy is NO EXCUSE for adultry! Do you really believe this? How about you plan A her and she just isn't capable of being happy! Yes you need to meet her needs, but whatever you did or didn't do in the past still doesn't give her any excuse for infidelity. If you really believe that she is capable of cheating with anyone no matter what you do, then you need to rethink trying to recover your marriage.



Because they are willing to do whatever it takes to make your recovery and the recovery of your marriage a priority, because they made a decision to enter into a relationship outside the marriage without asking you. There is never a guarantee that anyones spouse won't have an affair, but a willingness to take extraordinary measures to establish boundaries and give you reassurance that she is willing to rebuild and protect your marriage from oursiders is a good sign that she is committed.



No, because the written communication solidifies the commitment and YOU get to see and approve what she writes and you get to mail the letter, which reassures you that she means it. It is a part of rebuilding your trust in her.



Look at it this way, most contracts are in writing. It makes people think twice before they sign. It is merely a symbol of her commitment to you and a message to OM that she is committed to her marriage.

So, if you don't feel that you need a letter, don't ask for one. But I think you need to look long and hard at your own characterization of your wifes moral character if you honestly believe that if she isn't happy, she is going to have an affair.

If I had believed that was the case with my FWH, on d-day, or anytime since, I would be divorced right now.

Who

Okay, thanks again for the advice. Thanks for your patience.

Even though I was scared to approach the subject again after finally recieving affection, I did it. I asked for the letter and even changing her cell phone # since that is how the A was being carried out. She was receptive. She is 100% on board and has been, but only through her actions up until this point.

She still needs to take it slow, and I understand. The OM has already closed his account at her bank but like I said she had already started to find a new job as well.

We will never move from here and it would be silly....we have so much here....80 acres of paradise. This is home and we are strong enough not to ever let someone else step in between us.

Sorry I was such a tough case to crack and I am still a little sceptical about a letter actually making that big of a difference as well. Her word is enough for me even now. I really want to trust her still.

But we will do the letter as well and everything else we can to help rebuild that trust again.

Thanks again

Oh, yeah. I didnt mean I believe she is capable of cheating with anyone.....that is the last thing she does want. and I dont believe it is an excuse and make it alright to commit adultry if she is unhappy. What I meant was that if I dont do my part (which i feel is very important as well) she would be just as vunerable to anyone just as well as this OM.

OK...here's my thoughts for you.

You've commented about wanting to get "the good Dr's opinion". I SERIOUSLY suggest you do so. You seem to feel that the advice you're getting from the posters here 'doesn't fit your situation'. Then get it from the source...no further point of disagreement that way.

You've come here looking for advice...you've received it...over and over. You don't agree with it. That's your call. Your choice remain...you can ignore the advice, and do it your way...you can take the advice you get here and apply it...or you can contact the H's and get their input on your situation...and STILL have the choice of implementing it or not.

Most of us have been here a good length of time...and have seen a large number of posters come and go on this site. Some of us also post on other sites...where we see a large number of situations there too. You would be AMAZED at how cookie cutter these things really are! And you'd likely be equally amazed at how often we hear the battle cry "But my situation is different!!". And we see that its clearly NOT...

You see...the dynamics of an affair really do remain pretty constant all the time. The whole thing is an addiction...and looking at how people react, you find that they tend to react and do the same kinds of things, nearly everytime. We call it a "script"...and it nearly is that accurate almost every time. Its RARE to see someone's situation doesn't follow that same script most times...

That's why the advice seems cookie cutter to you. But what you're NOT seeing is that your wife is responding the same way that mine did, that almost everyone else's wives did. You are behaving much like a lot of other posters we've seen here...much like I did when I first found out, but hadn't developed a clear game plan.

You voiced a concern about never trusting your wife...that we seemed to expect that you should live that way forever going forward. Let me ask you a question...do you REALLY AND TRULY feel that you can trust her now just like you did before the affair happened??? REALLY???

I HIGHLY doubt it. She betrayed your trust...how CAN you trust her right now? If you do...honestly, you're a fool. Because she's SHOWN you that you can't trust her. ESPECIALLY where it has anything to do with OM. This isn't rocket science.

Now...she can REBUILD that trust. With work. Over time. By demonstrating to you that she IS behaving in a trustworthy fashion. That means you have to SEE her behaving that way. You need to 'check up on her'...so you can SEE that she's behaving as she should. If you don't...you'll never rebuild that trust. She'll never learn how to be truly accountable and responsible to you. Just as you should be to her. And given that, you're just setting the stage for another affair to happen.

Does any of this make any sense to you?

Okay....did anyone read what I wrote.....we are doing the plan! Geez....I am tired of being lambasted here. I am not an idiot and of course I will have a hard time trusting again but I am doing all I can at this point (checking up...etc) she is doing all she can and is receptive now. We are on course......all I wanted was support in doing the work and advice on daily routines, etc....patience. I do believe like I said, I was lucky in catching this way early before anything did happen. I keep getting the feeling here that everyone wants to believe my wife is a slut and was banging this guy left and right.....guess what? there are people out there with morals and scruples and can abstain from such things and realize what they are dong before it is too late.

I must have missed that. It might be just me, but you sure seem pretty darn sensitive for someone who seems to think everything is working out fine.

I think the point of infidelity is that we are all at risk for having an affair. A woman does not have to be a slut or tramp to have one and a man does not have to be a hound dog. Good, moral, and decent folks like your neighbors, brothers, sisters, parents, Drs., Lawyers, clergy.....it can and does happen everyday.

Try not to be so sensitive, we're on the side of your marriage here.

Who

DC, I am from your camp. All anyone is saying is that she has to burn that bridge. The NC letter will do wonders for both of you. She will know this is a point of no return and you will know she is very serious about repairing your heart. It is wonderful that she will write the letter.
My H didn't bang anyone left and right either , but you know, I suffered a whale of a lot of hurt knowing that
someone had his ear and his heart. And I know, you have also. We just can't be "afraid" of stating our feelings to our spouse. In my case, that's how we ended up here to begin with. There is a lot of power in the BS early into
R. use it to your advantage, and make it right from the start. We see so many false R's here. Everyone here just wants you to succeed. Best of luck to both of you.

"Feelings" are not truth. And we know very well that people with morals and scruples do use dreadful judgement sometimes. But the reason they do is because they don't set proper boundaries and protect their vulnerabilities. This is what led to your wifes affair. She didn't have it because she is a slut, and no one ever said any such thing.[you made that up]

But what we are trying to help you with is affair proofing your marriage so IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN. Unless you affair proof your marriage and remove the conditions that made her vulnerable in the first place, there will be a REPEAT.

If she were a newly recovering alcoholic, don't you think it would be wise for her to keep the booze out of the house and stay out of bars? Because if the environment does not change,the BEHAVIOR will not change. It is the same with your wife. She needs to never see him again, even if she has to leave that job. Seeing him again will just keep her in a state of perpetual withdrawal. It is like having a drink every once in a while while trying to sober up. Doesn't work!

Anyway, DC, you complained that no one was giving you advice and you got what you asked for. Take it or leave it, it is all the same to us.

personally, I think that anyone that has an affair is a slut...male or female....they can change and stop doing the behaviors that define them...but put me in the camp that believes that.

"Even though I was scared to approach the subject again after finally recieving affection, I did it. I asked for the letter and even changing her cell phone # since that is how the A was being carried out. She was receptive. She is 100% on board and has been, but only through her actions up until this point.

She still needs to take it slow, and I understand. The OM has already closed his account at her bank but like I said she had already started to find a new job as well.

We will never move from here and it would be silly....we have so much here....80 acres of paradise. This is home and we are strong enough not to ever let someone else step in between us.

Sorry I was such a tough case to crack and I am still a little sceptical about a letter actually making that big of a difference as well. Her word is enough for me even now. I really want to trust her still.

But we will do the letter as well and everything else we can to help rebuild that trust again."

I agree with your approach here except for the moving part...you may not agree with it...but it is far from silly. If there is any chance of contact, your M will continue to be at risk from the OM.

Dacentaur-

I'm not sure what you want here. You seem VERY touchy and defensive about anything said to you here.

I don't think your wife is anything...I don't know her. I don't know you. Whether or not you recover your marriage from this won't impact my life at all. I simply posted some advice in the hopes that it might help you figure out what to do from here.

If you go to somone asking for advice...you should be prepared to listen to what they say.

I'll offend you no longer. Good luck.

t/j WhoMe, I just wanted to say how glad I am that you have started posting so much because your posts are just brilliant! You did a great job on this thread!

Thank You!

It does feel good to actually be recovered, I was afraid to hope for so long.

You helped me along the way.

I used to wonder why recovered folks here stayed and posted. Now I get it. To help those who aren't.

So, again. Thank You!

Who

Quick T/J,
DaCentaur,
I think you are doing ok and you are making good progress. You are as blunt as many of your very good advisors--makes for a little tension, that's all. WhoMe-Poetic and thoughtful in MHO.
MEDC, I know you don't mean to and you are serious about your camp, but, you crack me up.

letter, phone call, whatever mechinism you choose should be TRANSPARENT to YOU.

If its a letter, that its contents support and defend you (her victim). That it is clear her loyalty belong with you.
That you are actually the one who puts that letter in the mailbox so you are CERTAIN that it is on its way.

Or if its a phone call, that you are able to listen to both sides of the conversation. That again, you (as her victim) KNOW the "break-up" has happened and that the message was delivered in a manner that respects you.

That way you don't have to wonder or say she "supposedly" told him....

Lex,

Good points. It was interesting for me that on D-day plus 5, I spoke to OW and she just didn't seem to understand that FWH didn't want a life with her, that I wasn't somehow keeping him against his will.

And why, because there had not been a clear, concise NC directive from FWH to OW.

So that evening, FWH called her with me listening in on the other phone (without her knowledge). FWH made it abundantly clear to her that he wanted nothing to do with her ever again.

And you know what, she still continued to contact him for an entire month. Then, he wrote a NC letter, approved by me and emailed it to her. He even gave her the option of calling him one time to confirm that it was he and not me that wrote and sent the NC letter. She never called and neither of us has heard from her since.

For some, it takes seeing it in writing. The written version can be well thoughtout and without emotion. I just think it is a clearer way to communicate that IT'S OVER SO GO AWAY AND STAY AWAY.

Who

FWW weighing in here.

You don't want to push her because you're afraid she'll run the other way, right?

In reality she's fence sitting and not making a decision. She can carry this on for quite a while unless you've given her a timeline. I mean what is her motivation to change and work on the marriage if no conditions are put on her and you're accepting the dribbles she's giving you??

As for you thinking that her giving you affection through hugs means that she wants to work on her marriage?? I used to hug my BH as well, didn't mean I wasn't having an affair or that I wanted to stay married!! Most waywards have a fantasy of keeping their betrayed spouses as friends- and friends certainly hug each other.

Owl is right in what he posted to you. All cheaters think their stories are original when they are all actually pretty similar.

No one here has said your wife is a slut. There are plenty of FWW's who post here including myself and I do not think I'm a slut. I made bad choices, and have worked on myself and know that I'll never go there again.

We're trying to help you but your head is so hard you're not accepting the help.

I've seen this posted before and I'll post it again because I'm curious. What would you do if you weren't afraid???