I've been a lurker on MB for a while but this is my first post. We've been separated for 3 months, legally for 1. No affair, just not meeting EN's.

My wife told me last night that she wants to "See other people." I'm devistated! The separation was time to work on our own issues and then we would work on the marriage. She doesn't want to see a MC. We haven't even had a chance to work on the relationship.

How can I compete against guys that have done no harm?

GetOverIt - How can you be certain that there has been no affair, because this sure sounds like a "textbook" excuse used by virtually every Wayward Spouse engaged in an affair?

How can you compete?

Hard to say without knowing what EN's apparently have not been met, but essentially "competing" comes from meeting her emotional needs.

So where do you see yourself as not having met them, and which ones are her "top five?"

Meeting these EN's is how a "Love Bank" is filled so that person then gets the feelings that tell them "I'm in love."

If you can provide more details it may be easier for folks to offer suggestions. Also, you might want to post on the General Questions II forum as it is the highest trafficed forum on MB.

How old are the two of you?
How long have you been married?
Any children?
Is religious faith a part of your lives?
What was the "excuse" for a separation, let alone a LEGAL separation?
What was the supposed agreement? Oh ya, work on "our issues." THAT is excuse Number One in the Affair handbook, SSection 2 - How to get my spouse to let me separate so I ccan carry on an affair without him/her seeing me come and go.

So what "issues" did you two want to "work on" that are, or are not, also MARITAL issues?

I am sorry you are in that situation.

I wonder what other people have experienced when they seperated to work on their individual issues first? I doubt I am the guy to be giving advice, but that sounds like either a poor plan or just a load of BS from the spouse suggesting that route. Anyone have any idea what the MB take on that approach is?

On another note, does your state require a legal seperation prior to divorce? I am just not familiar with the purpose or significance of a "legal" seperation.

I got the same feeling as FH as soon as I read this. What was the state of the marriage that led up to the LS? Who pushed for the separation? Who left home? Were there any other red flags going on.

Late from work?
Going out after work?
New clothes?
New hair styles?
Weight loss/exercise program?
Changing taste in music?
Cell phone usage?
Late nights on the computer?
Guarding her purse and or cell phone?

Do you have a grasp of what Plan A is about yet. You need to study and start a plan. You need to understand what was missing for your wife with your marriage. You need to fill those needs for her. Get "His Needs Her Needs" and start studying.

I would re-post this at GQII to get more input.

I am also curious about the legal aspects of this. Where I live (Canada), the separation seems to be more powerful than the divorce. It covers all of the nitty-gritty aspects from custody and support to division of property. The divorce is just a piece of paper that you need if you want to get married again. The actual divorce is not what people fight over in court - the separation is. Many people simply remain separated for the rest of their lives - and yes, they date, have relationships and even live together in common law (which is legally recognized even if one or both of them are not divorced from another person). So I find the terminology on this board confusing - I've been told that if I date, I would be committing adultery, though I don't really think I am. But I don't know. I'm still confused. I'm not sure if I'm single or married. I sure don't feel married.

There issn't any evidence of an affair. No cell phone calls, emails, late nights at the office, you name it.

I would guess that they would be ranked in the following order:
Affection
Communication
Family Commitment
Financial Support
Domestic Support

I've been committed to the family. I show her affection but not enough/not in the right ways. Communicaton, Domestic support have been miminal. We both make descent money but have accumulated a lot of debt over the years and in a paycheck to paycheck mode.

I'm 37 she's 36.
Been together for 15 years.
3 children 12, 10, 9
She's religious, I'm not.


She said neither of us were happy and that we needed to figure out how to be happy with ourselves before we could be happy together. It was made legal at her request. I think her friends told her to.

We agreed to not talk about the relationship during the separation until we both were ready.

I needed to work on consistantly showing her a commitment to meeting her EN's.

GetOverIt - Thank you for the additional information.

So let's spend a little time talking about these things and how they relate to your situation.

1. 3 children 12, 10, 9

Her responsibility for the children is completely unimportant to her. What you will hear is that "the kids will be all right, they will 'adjust' to my leaving the family to pursue my own selfish wants and desires. Teaching them that pursuing my own desires is more important than anything, including them is the 'life lesson' that all kids, especially my own children, need to learn is a person's 'top priority'."

She will try to tell you that she loves them, but that's precisely what she told you when you got married. "Words" are meaningless without commitment and action to "back up" the words. ACTIONS speak much louder than words and most often reveal the "true beliefs" of the person. What she is "teaching" them is that abandonment of anyone, even your own children, is okay just so long as I get what I want and can do whatever I want to do. "Self-centeredness is the only belief system that matters and everything else is a very distant 2nd."


2. She's religious, I'm not.

Being "religious" is not the same thing as having a true faith in the Son of God. There are many people who are "religious" about all sorts of things, but they wear their religion as a convenience, not as a heartfelt belief and way of life. Furthermore, if the belief they hold to that they claim is "religious" but it is not a faith in the one true God, it is not effective. Just so you are clear on where I am coming from this, I am a "born again Christian" who believes in Jesus Christ. It would seem, though you have not yet stated what your wife considers to be her religion, that your wife's religion is NOT Christian. How can I say that? Because the Scripture is CLEAR about divorce for a believer, whether they are married to a fellow believer to an unbeliever. Nothing you have stated as her "reasons" for wanting a separation (and that's just a euphamism for the divorce she really wants), is supported by God's Word.


3. She said neither of us were happy and that we needed to figure out how to be happy with ourselves before we could be happy together.

This is "psychobabble mumbo jumbo." Let me try to interpret it for you. "I want what I want and only what I 'feel' will make me happy. My feelings control my actions. Oh, by the way, did I tell you that I WANT to have an affair, so I need to be away from you and the children in order to be able to have an affair without having to explain to everyone what ADULTERY is and why I think it's 'okay'?"


4. We agreed to not talk about the relationship during the separation until we both were ready.

Of course you can't talk about the MARRIAGE. Being married means that she would be committing adultery and getting to you agree to "no talk about the relationship" is getting your tacit approval for her to be involved with someone else and to rescind the Marriage Vow of "forsaking all other and keeping myself only unto you."

There's not much need to even to the other Marriage Vows of things like "in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer," etc. because Adultery trumps them all. What SHE wants is ALL that is important. It is selfishness "run amok."


5. I needed to work on consistantly showing her a commitment to meeting her EN's.

Yes you do, but you need to make necessary changes in yourself regardless because not meeting those needs, which are basic to just about every woman, will make you "unattractive" to not just your wife but to any woman.

But here is your real problem: While you are separated, not talking about the marriage, and she is getting her needs met by others, there is no practical way for you to "show her your commitment to meeting her EN's."

GetOverIt, you marriage is already over but you, like most Betrayed Spouses, don't want it to be. So you "cave in" and agree to anything the Wayward Spouse wants because you are "afraid" that if you don't go along with her you will just "drive her away." GetOverIt, your wife doesn't need to be "driven away," she is already running full speed ahead to a divorce and to a life without you and without her children. Yes, I know, "I'll always be a part of their lives." Just so long as HER life takes precedence and it's convenient to her life. Assuming she might remarry at some time, which at her age is a real probability, then YOUR children get to be involved with some other man too.

You need to fight this legal separation, if you can. NO ONE goes to a legal separation for any reason other than to meet legal requirements for granting a divorce.

If you continue to NOT talk about your relationship, there is only ONE way your marriage will end...divorce.

If your wife thinks that she IS a Christian, then I'd sincerely like to talk with her about what she is doing and God's clear position to her. Since you yourself do not believe, there is no "common ground" on which to discuss this that would not be seen as you merely trying to "manipulate" her, nor would it do much good to talk to about what "obedience to God" means. You are in a marriage that is called "unequally yoked." But here is the "real deal," biblically speaking....all marriage is sacred to God, but a "man/woman" who doesn't believe in God really believes that marriage is only "until I no longer feel like being married" instead of the VOW and COVENANT of "until death do us part."

"I'm okay, you're okay" is lie and is just an excuse to be able to do whatever I WANT to do and whatever I want to think is right regardless of what anyone else might think. While your wife may not have said that specifically, she HAS said it in the form of "we have to work on ourselves and not the marriage." That IS why society has instituted and supported "no fault" divorce, so that people CAN put their feelings ahead of their commitments and can treat spouses and children as "disposable property."

In short, that's a secular viewpoint, a "me first" worldview, and not a "God worldview" based upon God's Word.

So, do you want to FIGHT for your marriage, or just sit back and think ONLY working on your own understanding and meeting of her perceived needs (I'm assuming that she has NOT taken the EN Questionairre since there is an agreement in place to NOT discuss anything related to your 'relationship').

If you DO want to fight for your marriage, then get an attorney to review the legal separation and find out how you can end it. The next step after the LS is divorce. You are way late in the "game," IF you truly want to save your marriage.

Consider hiring a PI, because I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that there IS an active affair going on. The "best that could be going on" is that your wife has already mentally checked out of the marriage and is ready to justify in her mind what is called an "Exit Affair."

You really need to copy or link this thread to the General Questions II forum to get more input. The GQ II forum is the most active and most of the members who post and try to help are regularly on that forum and only occasionally stray off into the other forums. If you care to see that, just go back to the main page where it will list all of the forms AND the number of people viewing that given forum.

I am in the same mind as Tabby regarding separated/divorce.

I came to this board with a problem I am having in my second marriage . Husband having an affair.

On my signature I said that we were both in our second marriage - I was being honest.

I am from the UK and, to cut a long story short, in the UK they don't have legal separation. You apply for a divorce and it can take an indeterminate amount of time to go through depending on circumstances e.g. property, children etc.

When I met my second husband we were both separated. Our first marriages were over. Our first spouses knew our marriages were over. I did not for one minutes think I was doing anything wrong dating my current husband.

However, some of the people on this site are of the opinion that unless you are divorced (in writing) you are committing adultery if you have a relationship before you divorce is final.

I can understand their point (from a religious point of view) but it is not mine.

My divorce took four years my husband's divorce took three years.

In the eyes of some people on this board I should have put my life on hold for four years until the paperwork was signed off.

I had a chance of happiness after my divorce and I took it.

I am now being taken to task by some people on this board over something that happened 15 years ago and, I feel, has no relevance to my present situation.

At present I am a BS. Mt husband has been having an affair. This is why I came on this board.

However, I am being taken to task for something for something that happened 15 years ago.

I am being told that since I was an adulterer (in their opinion) in my first marriage then (I paraphrase) it serves me right that I am a BS now.

Under my present circumstances (heartbroken BS)I find this an extremely cruel thing to say to me. I was not an adulterer in my first marriage in eyes. Being accused of this has upset me immensely.

I came here because I am a BS now. I was not expecting to be taken to task over something that happened 15 years ago.

I have been married to my second husband for 15 years - longer than I was married to my first (who was an alcoholic, drug addict, closet homosexual - which is why I divorced him) but apparently that is beside the point.

Up until my Wh had the affair we had a great marriage. His affair only happened because he was workjing overseas for three months at a time (opportunity/cake eating).

I sometimes feel that some of the people on this site can be very judgemental.

I just wanted honest advice.

I am not religious but I feel like the fact that am not a christian has made a difference to how some people view me on this site.

I am sure that there are many people on this site who have started relationships before thier divorce was final.

I am not aware of the law in America, maybe it is easier to get a divorce.

If my divorce had gone through in six weeks would this have made everything OK.

I have been really upset by the views of some people on this site.

I have been told to remove myself fromn the infidelity section (which I have done) because (apparently) I am was adulteress in my first marriage.

My issue is now, not 15 years ago.

I would appreciate your comments.

kimleigh2

Sorry what I meant to say was

'I had a chance of happiness after my separation' (not my divorce). Sorry, just a typo.

I hope this is not way off the subject of the thread but I assume other people will look at the subject and click on it just as I did.

kimleigh2

I am a Christian...and I agree with you. When the Bible was writen, lawyers and courts had not so fouled up the legal process that you describe. While I do not think it is reasonable for people to be able to get drive up divorces...the amount of time/money and hoops that one must jump through to get rid of a horrible spouse is often times ridiculous. I do not feel that keeping your life on hold for this entire time is right for everyone. I do not view you as an adulterer...your marriage was over...you and your H divorced in your eyes...not just verbally...but in writing, even if the papers ha yet to be signed by anyone other than you two and a witness....that is important in the eys of the church. The writ was NOT to come from courts or judges...but from the offended spouse.

Some people view this differntly....NOW...if you were a Christian, even with those papers...sexual sin would exist if your engaged in "physical" activity with your new H before M. Since that doesn't seem to be your beliefs, I will merely say that I am sorry for your pain right now...you do not deserve the hurt your H is putting you through and don't let anyone here make you believe otherwise.

Hu MEDC

Thank you for your kind words. I am glad that someone else sees it from my point of view.

I have been devastated by my husbands's affair. Some days I have barely been able to function.

All the accusations surrounding the circumstances of my first separation/divorce have not helped my state of mind at all. I have had a lot of help from this site but after these accusations I was seriously considering not coming on her again, I was made to feel so bad.

My WH and myself have done a lot of talking over the last week or so and I am hoping for a recovery from this situation.

Thank you once again for understanding

kimleigh2

Kimleigh,

I have learned a fair bit more about our (Canadian) legal system since writing that post. One thing is that the system doesn't recognize an affair to be adulterous if it happened AFTER the legal separation. In other words, if I want to check of the adultery box on my divorce papers, I have to have proof (or he has to admit) that he was adulterous. The fact that he is living with OW, and has been since he moved out of my house (before the SA was signed in fact), doesn't matter. The SA says we separated April 27 (D-day) and according to the law, anything that happens after that is NOT adultery. (don't worry, I have evidence of the A from before that date as OWH caught them)

I believe that some of the issues here are more semantics than anything. It's an American-dominated BB but there are some of us from other places that use slightly different terminology. Since we are fewer, our word usage stands out a little more and may unintentionally raise flags with some. Also, there are a lot of religious folks here and that affects the strictness of various definitions as well.

In my own mind, I am not married. I'm not overly religious though I was married at a church. The state will divorce me when the time comes. My SA was a document that I wrote and both of us signed with a witness (didn't go to court). I have met many men and women who are also separated but not divorced - some who have remained this way for many years, even decades. They don't think of themselves as married. They date, have boyfriends/girlfriends and some even have common-law partners (who are recognized by the state as common-law partners despite the existance of a non-"divorced" husband/wife somewhere). In my country, this is fairly normal.

For myself, I've started to date a little. I don't feel guilty or that I'm cheating or having an affair. I have seen this one man a few times who is also separated (for about 1 1/2 years). One night last week, we ran in to his "x"W. She smiled and said hello to me (we know each other from before) and the encounter was not even slightly unpleasant. She is living with her BF (not the OM from her M but another guy). Since my inquiries on this board have brought the same response as what you describe, I don't write much about it here. Some will say I'm committing adultery. Others will say it's too soon. I try not to take it personally. Mostly I write for advise on my ongoing issues with WH, which have more to do with form filling and crazy behavior on his part than our former relationship.

Tabby

Thanks so much for response. I feel so much better knowing that someone else shares my thoughts and opinions on the separation/divorce issue.

I feel like I have been unfairly bashed on this board by people of the opposite view.

I only came here for help. I am not religious. I wasn't married in church.

I respect the other people's opinions but why can't they also respect mine.

I have wondered at times whether this site should be called Marriage Busters rather than Marriage Builders for the lack of compassion shown. Short of writing a novel on this site there are bound to be details that aren't mentioned in our stories. At the end of the day these people are strangers who don't know us personally. Up to a point you can generalise about affairs, WS, BS but without knowing the individuals in question you can only give a reply based on a few lines of typing. Relationships can be very complicated.

I know that mine and my husband's past might not have been perfect but we have had a fantastic marriage until his A. I honestly believe it only happened because he was away from home for such huge blocks of time. In some ways I can understand why it happened and that is why I am prepared to give our marraiage another chance.

I want my marriage to recover but I will not be a doormat. I suppose I am a very forgiving person. Maybe I am stupid.

My husband and I both agree that our marriage is too good to throw away. He agrees that he has been stupid.

At the end of the day is not a monster and I don't want to treat him like one.

Despite the comments of some of the people on here (not you!!) I am trying to be positive by doing Plan A.

I understand how bitter and judgemental some of the BS's on here can be. Fair enough I understand that but I don't want to spend my life being bitter and hateful. It doesn't make you a very attractive person at the end of the day.

Anyway, thanks again for your understanding.

Good luck with your future. I hope you find happiness.

kimleigh2

Kimleigh, I don't think anyone is trying to bash you, though I haven't read all the threads (maybe I missed something?). I do believe most people are trying to help. The methods described here have been tested and they work. Things like exposure - I noticed in another thread you weren't keen on that. It does work and once you get over the initial reluctance, it isn't that hard and it does bring you a lot of support from people who otherwise might be supporting your WH (who has likely told them a spin-doctor version of the truth). Everything my WH did has been described by others on this board - EVERYTHING. And this was a man I lived with for 17 years and fully trusted. The day before this happened to me, I would have sworn with my life - even the life of my DS - that he would never, ever do anything like this. But he did. And he told the same lies everybody's WS tells their BS.

You are still in the initial stages. You want to believe what your WH tells you. I still want to believe what mine tells me. But part of having an A is all the deception that goes along with it. I found this particular article in Pepperband's notable posts most helpful:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;vc=1&nt=11

Scroll down to about the 5th or 6th post. It starts with "Long - But worth reading. Makes some very good points pointing out the DIFFERENCES between men and women and A."

It describes various types of affairs. My WH is having a romantic affair and this describes it to a T. It helps me to understand where all the ugliness comes from. It even makes me sad for him since at the end of the day, he's going to come out of this with nothing at all - not his friends, family nor any money or possessions but the shirt on his back. Note, my exposure of the A is not what cost him his friends and family - he did that on his own.

If you are hoping for recovery, the advise here will help. But it is not easy. True, there is a lot of religion on this board and that does colour how people write out their posts. But don't take offense to it. Be comfortable in your own skin. You will know if what you are doing is questionable or wrong. As individuals, we all have a slightly different perception of this - you don't need to be the same as the rest.

And all that said, I am happy there is someone else who doesn't view me going on a date at this stage as adultery because I don't believe it is anymore. I'm not doing anything to hide it from WH (DS knows and new guy's WW and DD know, not to mention both of our parents). So far it hasn't even raise an eyebrow. But that's also the culture around here.

Hi Tabby

Thanks for your response.

I do feel I am being bashed about my past, I am concerned about my present and my future.

My WH tells me that nobody knows about his affair. I believe that. I think that he knows that it is wrong so the fewer people know about it the better. Our situation is complicated because he is in the USA and I am in Australia. It has been eaaier for him to hide his affair than it would have been if it was going on in our home town.

I feel the same as you . I had been with my man for 15 years and trusted him with my life. I would never have believed he would/could ever have done this to me/our marriage.

I feel like I am still not far beyond D Day.

My H has nothing to gain from this affair. He will lose face with his family (his parents think the world of me), his business partner, our children. He will come out of this with nothing at all apart from what she can give him. She is financially independant - two houses. She can be that way because she has never been married, has no children. Her money is her own.

At the end of the day (and I don't want to sound mean) how many women get to the age of 41 without having some baggage. She has (apparently) never had a serious relationship before. She is 41 for goodness sake. To me that says a great deal about her as a person.

Tabby - I am happy in my skin. I know what is right and what is wrong. Thank you so much for your input.

kimleigh2

Having crossed over to the other side (i.e. dating others as opposed to working toward recovery), I have to say I completely mistrust anybody 40+ who has not been married. Can't really say exactly what it is, and I have no intention of remarrying again myself so it's not really a commitment thing, but there is something about it. I'm not especially keen on those that didn't have kids either, even though mine is grown. I haven't thought about it from a man's perspective - as in what advantages and disadvantages there would be to a 40+ woman with no previous marriage or kids. However, OWH had started dating a 30-something year old that still lived with her folks. I took that as a major red flag and she's turned into be a royal PIA for him. Like he needs that on top of everything else.

So is WH going to end the A?

I would agree with you Tabby. I always question why the person never married...and while I have dated women without children, I very much prefer if she does have children.

Mkeverydaycnt, do you have any idea why you prefer children? I'm just trying to analyze myself since if none of this (WH's A etc.) ever happened, I had no plans to have more children myself and was actually quite content to move on to the empty nest stage after DS moved out. Despite being glad that I'm no longer taking care of little ones myself, I find their existance in the life of a potential date to be comforting somehow.

I think women with children have a better handle on my responsibilities as a dad.