When my marriage hit rock bottom I chose to see a marriage counselor on my own 4.5 months ago because husband chose not to participate. He says counselors are a waste of money.

I've been seeing a marriage counselor now for 4 months trying to discover and solve what I need to work on first before trying to solve my marriage problems. My husband did say that at some point he would be willing to go together for marriage counseling later on.
I have since discovered I am an enabler and have a hard time setting boundaries and following through with consequences.

Well, I have since been trying to work on these and other personal issues and am starting to feel better about myself. My husbands issues are still continuing, but I have been avoiding them in order to keep peace and faking my happiness for the same purpose until we can get into counseling together.

I recently asked my counselor when my husband and I together should come so we can start moving forward somehow because we are just in limbo right now. She said that she feels he has a lot of issues, many stemming from his childhood (serious issues that have carried into adulthood) that he needs to deal with <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />and that he needs to see a therapist and discover/learn how to work on his own issues before we meet together and try to work on OUR issues.

I spoke to him about this and he said he is not going to waste money and he does not need to see a therapist. He says the two of us together do, but not him by himself. He says "You can see one by yourself, but I'll only see one together" since its both our problems, not just mine." I tried to explain to him how it will benefit him better if he can discover why he does what he does, but he is very avoidant about the issue and gets defensive and won't talk.

When I mentioned this to my counselor, she told me that I cannot make decisions for him. If he is choosing not to see a counselor, then I just need to continue to work on myself. He has to be the one to choose/decide that he wants to change then do it.

I guess I am just frustrated because I don't feel like we'll ever make progress if he does not want to try the counseling. It's kind of a last resort for us. I feel like I am making progress, but he just sits in his comfort zone of what he has always been and it is hard for me to get excited about moving on without his support.

I can see the frustration in him too, but he does not connect the two. I don't know how to keep going on at home faking happiness, ignoring hurtful comments, etc. and my husband says he wants things to work, but I think he thinks it will just happen on it's own. Any advice? I feel like this is a never ending battle.

Lily, I started a thread over on the recovery forum that will at least tell you what my views are concerning your sitch. If you have time check it out. The thread name is "To BSs: Raise the bar high". I firmly believe that conflict avoiding does nothing good for a M. In fact, I think most, if not all As, are the result of one or both partners being CAers. JMVHO!

Of course you know that you cannot force your husband to change. But like Star says, YOU can change and make him want to change too.

I would work on my boundaries. It takes quite a while to develope them and learn to maintain them. That will keep your very busy. McCloud and Townsend have excellent books - "Boundaries" and "Boundaries in Marriage".

Lily100, I hate to say this, but your H is right. Going to counseling to discuss "childhood issues" is cute and costly, but not effective. The only one who will benefit is the counselor who gets paid to listen to him bloviate. But, it will do nothing to resolve your marital problems. Focusing on the past cannot resolve problems in the PRESENT.

This is one of the reasons that most counselors are such dismal failures, particularly marriage counselors. MCs have the highest failure rate of any of the specialities. [16% success rate]

My suggestion would be to find a QUALIFIED MC with a track record of SUCCESS who will not waste you and your H's time with a fruitless rabbit chase that will do nothing to help your marriage. Call up Steve Harley and have him assess your situation and give you and your H a PLAN. He won't waste your time chasing rabbits and will keep you focused on finding solutions TODAY for TODAY's problems. This is why Marriage Builders is successful where others are not.

I will post Dr. Harley's thoughts about rooting around in the past in my next post.

Coping with Infidelity: Part 4

Overcoming Resentment

One of the reasons I'm not so keen on dredging up the past as a part of therapy is that it brings up memories that carry resentment along with them. If I'm not careful, a single counseling session can open up such a can of worms that the presenting problem gets lost in a flood of new and painful memories. If the goal of therapy is to "resolve" every past issue, that seems to me to be a good way to keep people coming for therapy for the rest of their lives. That's because it's an insurmountable goal. We simply cannot resolve everything that's ever bothered us.



Instead, I tend to focus my attention on the present and the future, because they are what we can all do something about. The past is over and done with. Why waste our effort on the past when the future is upon us. Granted, it's useful to learn lessons from the past, but if we dwell on the past, we take our eyes off the future which can lead to disaster.



I personally believe that therapy should focus most attention, not on the past, but on ways to make the future sensational. And when a spouse comes to me with unresolved feelings of resentment about something their spouse did in the past, I tend to put it on hold and focus on issues that prevent mistakes of the past from recurring. I ask them to trust my judgment, and see what happens to the resentment when the marriage has a chance to become fulfilling. In almost every case, resentment fades, as I predicted. While the painful memories are not entirely forgotten, the most recent marital experiences which are fulfilling and enjoyable, dominate a person's thinking, and resentment becomes weak and infrequent.



Recovery may not be complete



Resentment usually appears when an experience of the present reminds us of a painful experience of the past. For example, if a wife had been abandoned by her husband after a fight on a vacation, left to find her way home alone from Jamaica, the resentment of that experience would pop up whenever her husband walks out the door during an argument. Very often, continuing resentment means that whatever it was that caused the painful experience is still lurking in the background. And it jumps out every once in a while when evidence of it's existence surfaces.



The procedure for recovery that I suggest usually eliminates the root causes of infidelity, and that makes it unlikely that present experiences will remind a spouse of experiences associated with an affair. If the only time you feel resentment about a spouse's past affair is when your needs have not been met, when your spouse is engaged in a Love Buster, or when the Policy of Joint Agreement or Policy of Radical Honesty has not been followed, then it's the completion of recovery that's your problem, not resentment.



Using resentment as a way to control and punish a spouse

I'm convinced that what's kept the resentment of S.R.'s husband alive for so many years is that he has found it to be an effective way to control and punish her whenever she doesn't do what he wants. Whenever they have a fight, he brings it up, and it causes her such guilt that it gives him a decided advantage in winning the argument.



By this time, I don't believe that her affair is the problem that she thinks it is. Instead, it is an issue that her husband is using to get the upper hand in his relationship with her. It probably shows up the most whenever she has been reluctant to have sex with him. It throws her off balance whenever he mentions it, and makes her feel guilty, wanting to make it up to him somehow. He may also bring it up whenever she is winning in a power struggle he is having with her.



What she describes to me in her letter is abuse, pure and simple. There is no excuse for the way her husband keeps bringing up her moment of weakness she experienced years ago. He is disrespectful and abusive.



I suggest that she look him right in the eye and say to him, "Listen Buster, do you love me? Do you want me to love you? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with me? If the answers to any of those questions is 'yes' you sure are going about it the wrong way. You are not doing things that I admire, you're doing things that I find disgusting!"



What if he says, "Fine, then lets just get a divorce and end it all."



To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call. If you want to be in a love relationship with me, however, you're going to have to treat me much better than you have been treating me. You must never again bring up my affair, and if you are upset with me, you will have to treat me with respect until we can solve the problem. If you are upset with our sexual relationship, I want us to discuss it as adults and solve it with mutual respect. I refuse to be treated like this, especially by the man I love."



My advice to her husband is to never mention her affair again. It's a good example of one of the enemies of good conversation, dwelling on past mistakes. Whenever you keep bringing up your spouses past mistakes, you not only make your conversations incredibly unpleasant, but it cannot possibly lead to a resolution of a conflict you may be discussing. And as soon as his resentment doesn't pay him any dividends -- no longer helps him get his way -- he will find that it hardly ever occurs to him.



Hanging on to an unpleasant thought because it helps us somehow is what psychologists call "secondary gain." It means that even though the thought is unpleasant, it gets you something you need, so your mind keeps it around for its usefulness. There are many unpleasant thoughts that have this characteristic, and I have helped many people let them go by helping them destroy the usefulness of the thought. Making sure that S.K.'s husband never gets what he wants by bringing up her affair will help him overcome his resentment.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5062_qa.html

Lily, I am curious about your own MC. Is she married and what is the quality of her own marriage?

Thank you for your advice. I am currently reading Boundaries , only on Chapter 4 and have discovered i am a compliant and my husband is a non-responsive.

MelodyLane, ny counselor is a christian counselor, but works for a professional organization, I think she is happily married (I have never asked her, but I know she is married), in her early 60's. She is not just a marriage counselor, though, she does other types of counseling as well.

Lily, why not counsel with someone who can HELP your marriage then? She has expressed her own inability to do so. The Harleys CAN help your marriage and won't waste yours or your H's time yapping about the past when it is the present that is the problem.

On second thought, let me ask you this about your husband. Is he a practicing alcoholic or a drug addict? Does he have anger management problems coupled with physical abuse?

MelodyLane, my husband is not an alcoholic (he does not even drink) and he does not do drugs (never has), no smoking either. I do believe he has some anger issues and is emotionally abusive to me and the kids at times, but I also believe he truly does not believe he is. He thinks that he has to say what he says because "nothing else works to get them to listen."

Thanks, Lily, I just wanted to double check and make sure he was NOT an alcoholic or a wife beater before I underscored Dr. Harley's statements about the utter futility of rooting around in the past or getting individual treatment.

Your H is absolutely right that counseling would be a waste of time if it focused on his past. What will change your marriage TODAY is focusing on the PRESENT and changing PRESENT BEHAVIORS, just as Harley suggested. This tactic is the HALLMARK of any successful therapy/program. Examining childhood issues will avail you nothing.

If your current marriage counselor won't help you with your marriage, I hope you will find a qualified counselor who CAN help you, such as Steve Harley. He won't send your H off to never-never land, but will give y'all a plan that will benefit the PRESENT.

Melody, when you said Dr. Harley will actually give us a plan to benefit the present, are you talking about if I were to have a phone consultation and actually speak with him? or just reading what is on the site?

Lily, I am suggesting calling Steve Harley and letting him coach you in the right direction. He can assess your situation and give you a PLAN. He is a coach, versus a counselor, meaning that he is directive, rather than REACTIVE. He will give you clear instructions on how to proceed. He might be the perfect answer for your H because he will focus on making changes in the present.

Thanks. I saw that he did over the phone visits, but the cost seemed so high (versus $20.00 co-payment for counselor through insurance:) and not being a person who is just flowing with money wondered how many people actually could benefit from a phone visit. However, in the long run if it really can be beneficial, I would be willing to invest in it.

Lily, I feel so confident about the abilities of Steve Harley that I actually PAID for the first 2 sessions for my sister. I have seen him turn many situations around being on this forum for 6 yrs.

My sister and BIL have had a total of 4 sessions with him and the plan he gave them has made an enormous difference in their marriage. [they were at war and she had actually kicked him out when she first called SH] My BIL was a hostile, reluctant spouse who refused to go to counseling. He was very receptive to Steve, however, and they are both actively working on the marriage today. Steve can do in 2 sessions what most MCs can never do.

They may take insurance. In any event, what you pay the Harleys is nothing compared to the dozens of co-payments you pay to someone who is ineffective.

Larry

don't know about your insurance, but most don't pay for couples counseling. so you have to lie and say it's just you, and your therapist has to go along with it if you want insurance to pay. aside from this little detail, I would rather spend $$$$ on counseling than on attorneys to divorce.

you should find another counselor though if you do joint, yours is now biased, not good for him.

you loosely use hot-button terms... emotional abuse verbal abuse... be careful here, besides no one knows what you mean anyway really.

i suggest you regularly seduce him and ***** *** ****** every way imaginable til he can't take it anymore and see where his threshold is, and then make him a sandwich afterward.

also that you listen to dr laura schlessinger's radio show, and read some of her books.

im sure the P*** is symptomatic of him not being/feeling really loved/appreciated and complimented as your big strong husband and father of the kids and sexed up enough by you enthusiastically; which is perceived by him as love. and not ever put down in front of the kids, but supported in his childrearing decisions.

Soldorange, What would this accomplish? Anything positive?

"i suggest you regularly seduce him and ***** *** ****** **** every way imaginable til he can't take it anymore and see where his threshold is, and then make him a sandwich afterward."



"im sure the P*** is symptomatic of him not being/feeling really loved/appreciated and complimented as your big strong husband and father of the kids and sexed up enough by you enthusiastically; which is perceived by him as love. and not ever put down in front of the kids, but supported in his childrearing decisions."

[ Soldorange, H had problem with p--- long before I ever knew him. I have never put him down in front of the kids, that is something he does me. As mentioned earlier, one of our problems is his view of childrearing--he would rather avoid it all together.]

sheesh! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />