Post deleted by Humanista

Post deleted by Humanista

Welcome to Marriage Builders, Humanista.

I am one who had also experienced 2 OW. And yes, its a mess and feels devistating to try and comprehend. Your husband is a serial cheater and my guess is he loves all the attention it affords him. His actions are selfish and morally disgusting. Contemptable.

I would strongly suggest you setup an appt with Steve Harley for marriage coaching. If your WH is willing, include him. Steve can help put a plan in place and can assess your WH's truthfullness and sincerity. Its money well spent.

Please take care of you. You matter.

Lv,
Jo

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Who says he should have been the one to tell her? Is that a written law somewhere? Is that written in the FOGHORN CODE OF "ETHICS" manuel!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> LOL You should spread the word of his affair WIDE AND FAR. Exposure is like chemotherapy to cancer. Expose to your H's parents, siblings, etc. The most important exposures will be to both OW' husbands.

Now, your H is not supposed to LIKE exposure. you will get no REWARDS or KISSES for interfering in his affairs so just expect him to get angry.

Do NOT trust anything he says. He's doing damage control right now and will lie about everything to cover his butt. He'll bully you and try to make you feel guilty for his cheating.

Continue to expose. Adulterous affairs shrivel-up to the light of day. He'll get over being angry over your exposure, but your marriage will not survive on-going affairs if you don't expose.

Exposure is the most effective tool a BS has in your aresenal of weapons against adultery.

He is simply experiencing the consequences of his actions. Don't help him hide his dirty secrets. If you do, you're enabling him in his adultery.

Personally, I think he is still having an affair with both women. I'm sorry to say that Human, but you should just assume its true.

Keep posting.
Jo

Human,

Most counselors are ineffectual when it comes to adultery. They are basically clueless unless they know Harley's principles.

I strongly suggest you counsel with the Harley's. Jennifer Harley is just as good as Steve Harley.

I find it quite interesting your husband prefers a female counselor, knowing his situation. Don't you?

Jo

Post deleted by Humanista

Well, I dont' know if he prefers a female counselor, but our previous counselor advised me that he would do better with a woman. He had a difficult relationship with his father and isn't trusting of men apparently.

How does MB counseling work online-- or on the phone? I would think it is difficult without seeing body language.

According to who, your cheating lying husband?

Do you want to avoid being embarrassed or avoid a divorce?

I seriously dont' think he is still having an affair with OW2, because she left me a long phone message about her regret and how she is rebuilding her marriage and how her husband forgave her and how I should forgive WH. I believe she really is trying to mend her marriage.
OW1, I'm not so sure.
The problem is, if he IS continuing to lie and cheat, how do I find out? He knows I check the cell phone records, so he calls her from his office. He keeps his computer locked and he has anoather at his office. I have no key to it anymore, he made me give it up 2 years ago. He has his own business and is free to go anywhere anytime during the day. i can't afford a constant PI.
He fooled me for years. How do I figure out if he still is?

BTW: You have NOTHING to be embarrassed of. You did nothing wrong, unlike your husband.

OW2 called me July 10. WH confessed July 28. I spoke with OW2 July 29.

I want to avoid a divorce. But talking it up seems like a Love Buster. And most of all, I dont' want my kids to be damaged.

Exactly why I say do not believe anything he tells you.

Human,
You came here looking for help and support. This place is the best chance you have to not only survive this but also recover and rebuild your marriage.

The MB methods for surviving an affair like EXPOSURE are key. Open your mind to considering these methods before shutting them down because it would make you uncomfortable.

Jo

Both proven liars and cheats.

Jo,

I am terrified that if I tell his mother, for instance, he will become so enraged he will divorce me.

Human,

You should be more terrified that if you don't expose you'll end in divorce.

If there are elderly or folks with severe health problems, I would not expose to them. But everyone else should be an exposure target, as Melody recommended.

Your children know more than you give them credit. They have already been damaged by your husband's cheating.

C'mon Human. Your husband is terrified you're going to tell more people. He's trying to shut you up. Why do you think that is. I'll tell you why. Its because he feels great shame for his cheating. Its sleazy and he knows it. He can't continue if everyone knows.

Jo

Humanista, I'm too tired right now to say much, so I'll keep it brief.

The short answer to your question is "no," you are not doing everything wrong, just a lot of things wrong, or at least not according to MB principles for saving a marriage.

With respect to your other question about how do you "Find out," that is answered differently depending upon whether you are trying to break up an active affair or if you are in recovery.

Let's assume for now that you are in recovery. So the answer is "simple." Openness and Honesty. If we assume your husband DOES want to be married to you AND to rebuild your marriage, then he needs to be an Open Book, and you need to ask him for what is needed so that you can "check anytime you wish" that he IS being honest and has nothing to hide. HE destroyed the trust and HE is responsible for rebuilding it. NOTHING short of complete honesty will do.

Think of it this way, he has a debt of honesty that is owed to you. It is a "big" payment amount that cannot be paid all at once, but requires a loooooooong time to repay it "with interest." The "payment" he doesn't like, but the payment is REQUIRED to reestablish credit and pay back what is owed. So the choice is pay it back, with interest, or default on the whole thing and get taken to court. "You choose, honey."

So, you get the key to office, the passwords to the computers, etc. No one "likes" having someone "check up" on, but it is ONE consequence of adultery if YOU are remain married to him.

As for his "problem" with others knowing about his affairs, too bad. NONE of this would be a problem if he had not CHOSEN cheating and if he had not been lying about contact with OW#1 all this time. Here is the one, hard, fast, unbendable rule about recovery....NO CONTACT of any kind, not for any "reason," with the OW for the rest of his life.

He forfeited all "friendship" rights when he irrevocably crossed the line.

YOU need to be less emotional in your reactions and more "matter of fact logical." This is in many ways a simple "Cause and Effect" issue. He does NOT have any right to blind trust from you and any trust that is given by you must be EARNED by him.

It's hard at first, but over time it pays dividends and the "need" for checking up will decrease and eventually end, but that is several years down the road.

God bless.

He would never have told OW1 about OW2 - it would have ruined the fantasy that he is such a great guy, yada yada.

He's furious because you ARE driving a wedge between him and OW1

to which I say

HURRAY For YOU!!!!

OW1 can now see him for the lying cheating [email]bast@rd[/email] he really is to her, and that he is really just trying to get a little on the side from her, too.

She's just another notch on his bedstand to him.

She should know that.

He is trying to keep other people from knowing because it serves his purposes. When you expose, it serves YOUR purposes - it usually breaks down the affair.

Yes, it can be embarrassing - but it should be embarrassing to be HIM, not for you. He should be ashamed of his behavior, and what he has done to his family.

It is hard on the kids, too, no doubt. But if the kids see you suffering and have NO explanation why, then, they are likely to think you are just losing your mind and accept his Bullsh!t reasons and whatever drivel he spits their way for your being upset. Do you want to accept that? I certainly would rather they understand the truth, and set the lesson out there for them to see and learn from - how to make a marriage less prone to affairs, how people react to affairs, the devastation that occurs when people do this, - there are lots of lessons here. Kids can learn from this, and you can take this as both an opportunity to learn and teach, but at the same time be sure to support them through it all. No, it isn't easy. I'm not saying that. But it is real life, and with appropriate support this can be done in a way that is less traumatic.

If you end up divorced over it, and you don't tell them, how do you explain a divorce out of the blue?

I would do something in the way of letting them know.


As far as your WH being upset about exposure, too bad, I won't shed a tear for him.

And you won't get far in recovery until total and complete NO CONTACT is in place - that means HE writes a letter of no contact to BOTH other women, and you read and approve of the letters and YOU mail them.

Then NEITHER of you EVER contact them again. NEVER.

He changes his cellphone number, and if you need to, the home number.

He opens up all of his password information to you, and you have full access to all of his accounts so that you can monitor all of his activity anytime you choose.

He has forfeited any privacy and secrecy. There is no longer time for that. He has full accountability for all of his time away from you. Full and total accountability.

There is NO "I get to call her one last time to do damage control". He does not contact her again, at all, period. He is DONE. No calls, emails, drive-bys. NOTHING. That part of his life is over. Because until he is done doing that stuff, your marriage will NOT begin to recover, and each time he does it, the clock sets back to zero again.

No contact. Don't agree to start your clock until that letter goes out to her.

And also, you need to stop calling her too. It just adds to your grief. From now on, she doesn't exist to you. As you will soon learn, it isn't about her, and it isn't about you. It's about HIM.

Welcome to Marriage Builders. We keep the lights on round the clock.

Finally,
Read up on Plan A. Do it.

Schoolbus