I see what you are saying. But why couldnt' he continue even if everyone knows? He'll just claim he's changed and reformed and be more cunning in his sneaking around.

Post deleted by Humanista

Gawd!! If I had a penny for every time I've heard or read a cheating spouse say this [bolded above] about their betrayed spouse I could buy the State of California.

Human,

A man who is cheating on his wife is telling her HE can't trust HER.

Whats wrong with that sentence?

So is that acceptable to you? That you continue to be married to a man who is secretive by nature?

A person who is secretive, is hiding things. If he has always (by nature) hid things from you, then why do you still want to be married to him.

"Secretive by Nature" for a married person, implies that person lies to their spouse by omission and by hiding things from them.

Jo

Human,

If my husband would not agree to NC, writing the letters, and complete and open access to everything,

that would be a deal breaker.

Done.

I would leave the marriage, plain and simple.

Because that would be clear indication that he refuses to do the very fundamental things needed to begin the process of rebuilding my trust in him.

Without the foundation of trying to rebuild that trust,

we could not even attempt to have rebuilding efforts on the marriage.

If he was not willing to accept that his secrecy was unacceptable, and DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR ENABLING THE ADULTERY

then I would not be able to remain in a relationship with him.

The idea that he steadfastly refuses to allow openness to his activities would tell me that he intends to continue his infidelities. He has no other reason to hide anything from me.

Plain and simple.

And I would not accept ANY other excuse, reason, justification, argument, or logic to the contrary.

If he insisted on anything in his life being outside of my observation, I would take it as a sign of continued adultery.

Therefore,
I would leave him.

There would be no further attempt on my part to save the marriage.

Schoolbus

You should make sure that he knows the truth. If you were told he knew anyone other than HIS VERY OWN LIPS, then you should call him up and tell him. I am confused about what this has to do with his position as a public figure? How exactly would that be unfair TO HIM? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

These are the words of an ENABLER who is enabling her husband to CHEAT on her. You are an accessory to the crime, humanista! You help him get away with cheating on you by keeping his secret! Your marriage probably WILL end in divorce because of his affairs, not because you made him mad. You are scared of the wrong thing.

Dr. Harley:

I was referring to my telling OW1 about H's affair with OW2, when OW1 had worked for OW2's husband, the public figure. OW1 is now free to spread this gossip to people who know OW2's husband and ruin his reputation---at least to people who believe he and his wife (OW2, also politically active) stand for family values.

Humanista,

You need to start reading the articles related to Infidelity on this site and also buy the book "Surviving an Affair" by the Harleys.

You titled this post "Am I doing everything wrong?", the answer to that is "yes" possibly because at every turn you find reasons why you won't or can't do the things we suggest, which are in sync with the Harley's principles and methods.

Case in point .....

The many reasons you've used why you won't expose:

1. I don't want to hurt the children
2. I don't want my husband to get angry and divorce me
3. I'd be embarrassed
4. I don't want to hurt the OW's husband
5. I don't want to hurt the OW husband's reputation
6. My husband will just get sneakier and more covert
7. It won't make a difference because my husband is innately secretive
8. What good would it do to hurt other people
9. OW (a liar) already exposed according to my husband (another liar)
10. Its unfair to OW's innocent husband

Comments Humanista?

Jo

And just what kind of "family value" does the OW stand for?? A family of PIGS? [my apologies to pigs for the insulting analogy]

This information would not "ruin" his reputation, but HERS. If anyones reputation is "ruined" it is because of the TRUTH, not because you told someone.

Having affairs has consequences, Humanista. CONSEQUENCES ARE GOOD, NOT BAD.

WOW, those sound like the excuses of a fogged out wayward. Jo, these are the comments of an ENABLER. She is helping him have affairs. She must be getting some kind of payoff for it.

Its starting to look that way. As former-BS Mel, we both know how frightening it is to expose. We know it mistakenly feels counter-intuative.

Its too bad that Humanista is fighting us on it. Reading how petrified her cheating husband is of being exposed, you and I both know it will have a profoundly positive effect on ending his cheating.

Thing is, he knows her and expects her to crumble at his threats, thereby returning to her enabling.

Humanista,

Why don't you try shocking the crap out of your husband for a change and expose. He will be angry at first, but I guarantee you he will realize new respect for you.

Jo

Humanista,

Are you still there?

Marriage recovery is not for the fainthearted. It is hard and will take much time, effort and support.

Your thinking is the strongest tool you have. The posters who have been helping you have tons of experience in helping people recover their marriage. But they may challenge your thinking in a way that may seem uncomfortable.

When I posted to you in Just Found Out and suggested you post here, it's because I do NOT have the same experience as FH and Jo and Mel and SB. They are some of the best and you are blessed that they are logged in on a weekend and are willing to help you. (Remember I mentioned that it took me 12 hours to receive a single response when I first posted on a Saturday 7 months ago.)

Please open your mind to the fact that you really have two choices:

* Do you want to be right?

* Or do you want to be married?

If it's the latter, please stop finding excuses for denying advice that could help save your marriage.

Ace

I am listening to you.

This is hard and confusing for me.

Maybe I am an enabler or co dependent but I can't think of a thing I might be "getting out of it". The only payoff for enabling is being paralyzed which I mistakenly believe on some level will make it all go away or something, I dont' know.

I appreciate your advice so much, it's just going to be hard for me.

I would like some clarification. The affair with OW2 has been over for a long time. ( 2 years) I only just recently found out about it. Is there still value in exposing it?

For that matter, he also admitted to one 10 years ago that lasted 6 months. Do I expose that one as well?

The affair with OW1 has been over a year, unless contact counts as it continuing. I guess it does.

Who do I tell about one or both? How do I do it? "Hi, this is your daughter in law. X has had 2 affairs and I just wanted you to know?"

I need guidance. I know I'm pathetic. It's just so overwhelming and depressing to think about doing at this point when I'm already so exhausted and deflated.

I just want it all to be OK again without any more fighting. i guess I'm a coward.

Humanista

You are not pathetic nor a coward. It takes tons of courage to fight for your marriage when being betrayed. Harley equates the devistation and shock to being raped. It can cripple us in fear, but don't let it.

You're a good loving person and deserve to be loved and respected. You don't deserve to be treated like this. Its all the way wrong.

Now, for exposure.

If your husband is in contact (directly or indirectly) with either OW, exposure needs to take place.

What do you say? It depends on who you're exposing to. If you're exposing to the OWs' husbands you may need evidence. Do you have phone records, pictures from the PI, etc?

Jo

The only thing wrong with being a coward is letting it have power over you.

Please re-read what everyone has shared with you. Also, read the info thread tacked above the Just Found Out and GQII forums. Mark's thread I linked for you on JFO is a great one with many helpful links for beginners.

You can do this Human.....realize that we are all on your side and have been in your shoes one way or the other. Everyone who has posted to you so far has recovered their marriages or their personal individualities.

I, however, am just a few steps ahead of you, having climbed aboard this recovery rollercoaster after sustaining many helpful suggestions to change my thinking (also known as 2x4's~~~~> boards to thwack one up-side-o-da-head)......not to slam you down, but because they (and I) care enough to help.

Keep goin', Humanista......and more help will be forthcoming.

Ace

It could be that after all you've been thru you have low self esteem. You may think you don't deserve better than this and have become complacent because of it.

It won't just magically go away. Your WH has demonstrated, as a serial cheater, that he intends to continue. He has no incentive to stop because you have unwittingly shielded him from consequences.

He can only learn to do different if he experiences consequences for his very hurtful and poor decisions/actions.

Jo

Harley lays it out pretty good.

You start by implementing Plan A, and Expose while in Plan A.

Please order "Surviving an Affair". Read it from cover to cover.

BTW: That counseling appt you have in the near future, if this therapist isn't a pro-marriage counselor that understands Harley's principles, they may not agree with your plans. I think you should re-schedule with Jennifer Harley.

The phone counseling sessions are just as effective as in-person ones. The Harleys have been studying infidelity for 30+ years and are deemed experts in that behavioral field. They can assess your situation and give you sound pratical advice.

Click on "Counseling Center" up above on the top menu bar of this site to book an appt.

Jo

Humanista, since intermittant contact has been taking place all along, I would call both husbands of his harem sluts and make sure they know all about the affairs. Ask them to be your ally in ending contact and assure them that there will be widespread exposure if their sleazy wives don't stop contacting your H.

In the meantime, your H is 100% responsible for any contact. All this CRAP about not knowing who was calling is CRAP. He needs to MAKE NC HAPPEN.


In other words, CONFLICT AVOIDANCE. Unfortunately, conflict avoidance always causes MORE CONFLICT, as you can see. You have indicated that you are more afraid of his "anger" than you are of divorce, so that is probably the basic issue here. But, you are causing yourself huge problems by giving into your fears.