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Joined: Jun 2000
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Humanista,

You could quite easily be the OW/now wife in my situation. She has a relationship history very similar to yours. No boundaries when it comes to getting what she wants, even if its someone else's husband.

Do you understand that there are hundreds of betrayed wives here that are fighting or fought for their marriages where an OW/now wife (similar to you) pursued their husband without regard to the devistation to them and their children? The same devistation you're feeling? The difference is, you signed-up to be betrayed. We didn't.

Jo

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But I did not sign on for infidelity, I really didn't.

Yes you did.

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I still love him. I know, you wonder how I possibly could. But I know I have used some of the worst LB on him. I know that justifies NOTHING he did, but maybe I should give you a littel more background about me.

I am no angel. This is my 3rd marriage and I cheated on my first and second husbands. Multiple times.

I was married for 3 years the first time, no kids,( 2 affairs by me) and 12 years the 2nd time, one son.

The last 7 years I was married to H#2 I had an A with a man who lived in another state for 6 years, then with a man from a hs reunion (sound familar?) then the man who became my current husband for a year.

When I was seeing my current H, telling him how much I loved him,(and separated from H#2 but not divorced yet) I had sex again one time with the old classmate, and was caught. I felt terrible and took a long look at myself. I swore to change. Future H#3 forgave me, and then I got pregnant.

I had to rush the divorce from H#2 and decide if I wanted to marry the father whom I loved, but wasn't sure about marrying because he seemed immature and I knew he had cheated on previous wife and girlfriends. He felt pressured to marry me, but said he thought we would have eventually anyway.

I said no until I was 7 months pregnant and nearly 40 years old.I just couldn't do the single unmarried mom thing. My parents were completely appalled as were our coworkers-- Future H#3 and I worked together in the same office! Everyone pretended to be very modern about it.

We were married in 1990 and our son was born 2 months later. When our baby was nearly a year old, I found out H had been trying to seduce another woman at work, I confronted him and he said he felt shut out by me b/c of the baby and wasn't prepared for everything to happen so fast. i forgave him and we moved on.

Shortly after I became pregnant again and had a daughter.
I was determined from the day I decided to marry him that I would be faithful to him no matter what. And I have been. Funny thing, I've hardly ever been even tempted this time, after 17 years because I loved him so much. I thought he had made the same turn-around but I guess I was projecting.

So it's hard for me to be so judgmental when i have been every bit as bad as him.

I changed, I guess I'm thinking he can too, or at least I'm wiling to give him another chance, he appears much more remorseful this time.

But I am reading and re reading your advice. I am thinking hard about my perspective and my resistance to having it challenged and why I am doing that.

I suggest you and your husband seek professional help. I don't think a support board of non-professionals (novices) is equipped to effectively advise or guide you.

God Bless you both,
Jo

Joined: Nov 2005
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Mel:

I read this:

Quote
You know, my dad was like that! He was married and divorced EIGHT TIMES and had 4 Xwives show up at his funeral. He was a lean, mean cheatin machine!


And I thought: "Girlfriend, I understand ALOT more about how you felt so lost as a young girl."

So many women for your Dad. With no real guidance from anyone about what was right and wrong.

I only thought your Dad had ONE affair. Ouch.

Glad you were able to get it straightened out!

I know it took awhile.

Me too. Different path, similar issues.

Thanks for hanging around.

LG

Joined: Jan 2007
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Humanista,

When I suggested you create a condensed sequential timeline in JFO so folks will be able to give you relevant advice, it would have been helpful if you had included your entire history. I'm glad you're seeking help and by posting you're now contemplating changes.....but I agree with Jo:

Quote
I suggest you and your husband seek professional help. I don't think a support board of non-professionals (novices) is equipped to effectively advise or guide you.

God Bless you both,
Jo

LG and Mel,

Glad I see you both in the same place:

Quote
Mel,.........
.....Glad you were able to get it straightened out!

I know it took awhile.

Me too. Different path, similar issues.

Thanks for hanging around.

LG

7 months ago when I asked for help, you two were the most influential on me (even though you had opposing advice re: delayed exposure). THANK YOU BOTH and Jo, too FOR HANGING AROUND all these years! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ace <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


FWH/BW (me)57+ M:36+ yr.
4 D-Days: Jun-Nov 06 E/PA~OW#2 (OW#1 2000)
Joined: Jan 2006
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Human,

This situation poses some interesting thoughts for me.

Because I tend to ponder things, I have been thinking about this one, and just decided to post the many thoughts that popped up while reading this. Here goes:

1. So, you are in an affair marriage, and didn't expect there to be any affairs....

2. My gut instinct on this man is that there were probably more than one other woman. Then you told of two, then three. Honey, that's likely the tip of the iceburg. RUN.

3. I do believe people can change, and you probably did. HE DIDN'T. Does that mean you deserve what he has done to you? Nope. Does it mean you should have expected it? I don't know. Probably, given the fact that you knew exactly how the two of you came into the marriage, you knew he was hitting on another woman when you got married, and I'm guessing here -----

4. You probably know or suspect that he cheated with someone else on his first wife? Before he cheated with you? Am I warm here?

5. He's just not willing to show you anything - passwords, etc.? Gee, wonder what that's about.

6. Why in the world aren't you going to expose? Now I know - you feel guilt about your own infidelities - is it because those have been kept secret, and he might expose YOU? Who cares at this point? That's OLD news. What counts is what's NOW.

7. Exactly what kind of a marriage do you have now? And you want to save it? I want to be clear, because people on their third marriage, and an affair marriage to boot, well, truthfully, the outlook isn't really all that great statistically speaking. But, you have been married awhile. You have gone longer than most odds-makers would have given you.

8. A snake. If this is truly his nature, then he eats things whole and has no remorse. Do you see him like this? Then, why do you want to save the marriage?

Just my random thoughts.

SB

Joined: Aug 2007
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[quote

The jury is still out on you too dear. Ms multi affairs in multi marriages. Sheesh. [/quote]

I see. Nearly 18 years ago I was open about my affairs to everyone, I was remorseful, I asked for forgiveness and I repented and changed. I have been faithful to my husband for decades. But the "jury is still out" on me?
Is that the philosophy here? No matter what, people are damned for the rest of their life for things they did earlier?
How can any of you encourage people to stay with cheaters if the jury will always be out, even for 20 years of faithfulness? Or do you get a "pass" if it's only one affair and only one marriage.
Yes, I was contemptible, selfish and immature. But I changed. Thanks for the understanding and encouraging attitude.


Humanista
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Humanista,

You could quite easily be the OW/now wife in my situation. She has a relationship history very similar to yours. No boundaries when it comes to getting what she wants, even if its someone else's husband.

Do you understand that there are hundreds of betrayed wives here that are fighting or fought for their marriages where an OW/now wife (similar to you) pursued their husband without regard to the devistation to them and their children? The same devistation you're feeling? The difference is, you signed-up to be betrayed. We didn't.

Jo

Yes I understand.

I never took away someone else's husband to be mine. My current husband had been divorced 2 years when I met him. My other 2 husbands were single. 4 of the 5 men I had affairs with over the years were single. I am NOT making excuses, it was still terrible. And one time OM was married and that was the main reason I ended it after just a few months. It was unforgiveable to do that to another woman. I will carry that with me forever. That was 18 years ago and they are still married, have been for 30 years.


Humanista
Joined: May 2002
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Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Humanista,

You could quite easily be the OW/now wife in my situation. She has a relationship history very similar to yours. No boundaries when it comes to getting what she wants, even if its someone else's husband.

Do you understand that there are hundreds of betrayed wives here that are fighting or fought for their marriages where an OW/now wife (similar to you) pursued their husband without regard to the devistation to them and their children? The same devistation you're feeling? The difference is, you signed-up to be betrayed. We didn't.

Jo


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yes I understand.

I never took away someone else's husband to be mine. My current husband had been divorced 2 years when I met him. My other 2 husbands were single. 4 of the 5 men I had affairs with over the years were single. I am NOT making excuses, it was still terrible. And one time OM was married and that was the main reason I ended it after just a few months. It was unforgiveable to do that to another woman. I will carry that with me forever. That was 18 years ago and they are still married, have been for 30 years.

Humnista, you say you understand?

Think about this a minute. You clearly state that in your own mind adultery with someone who is married (and the corrollary that if the OP is not married even if you were, your own adultery was "forgivable") is unforgivable. "It was unforgiveable to do that to another woman. I will carry that with me forever."

IF it was "unforgivable" to you, WHY would you be surprised to find out that some members posting to you would also find your own excursions into adultery against your own spouses as being "unforgivable" to them?

What EXACTLY did you think would be the reaction? If you didn't think that others found adultery to be disgusting, why would you have "repented" or felt "remorse" for your previous escapades?


You say you want to remain married to this serial cheater (YOU were marrried when you had your affair with him and he has NOT stopped his "cheatin' ways" and isn't likely to since he maintains his "secrecy and secret ways).

But what is the "real reason" you want to remain married to him? It seems to be fear, not love. You are my age now, so perhaps it's the fear of being alone and not being "young enough" to go get another man?

"I am terrified that if I tell his mother, for instance, he will become so enraged he will divorce me."

Consider this; as long as you live in this fear, your husband "wins" and is in control. Your fear is NOT shared by him, it is used as weapon for controlling you so he CAN cheat anytime he feels like it.

I also find it interesting that you have gone back and deleted the majority of your posts. Why?

How, exactly, do you suppose others may be able to offer some help to you when you eliminate the only source of information they have about you and your situation?

Because you are offended that some others on MB are offended that you ARE a former multiple cheater who is now on the "receiving end" of the pain that cheating causes?

Humanista, you say you "repented" of your affairs. Perhaps you did and staying married without cheating (I assume you have not had anymore affairs) may be an indication of that changed belief system, or it could just be because you are "fearful" of being divorced (as you did to your former husbands) or wanted to stay married for "the good of the children." We will likely never know.

But people who are upset with you (yourself a former multiple adulterer who had little if any respect for marriage or for fidelity in marriage) are upset BECAUSE all adultery has consequences, including your former adulteries. What I "hear" in your retort is NOT "repentance," but "justification" and that others have no right to be "offended" or to state that they are "offended" by someone who IS "reaping what they sowed." Just like seed in the ground takes time before the results can be harvested, the seed you sowed was the seed of infidelity.

Your current husband KNOWS that, and he knows you chose faithfulness only so long as you "felt like it," just like himself. That's what made you "sympatico."

You entered the marriage WITH a known person of no respect for the sanctity of marriage, and he has proven to be true to his nature. You want to save the marriage with this man? Why?

On WHAT basis do you think you could EVER trust him to "forsake ALL others and keep himself ONLY unto you?"

I see Adultery as first and foremost a sin against Holy God. Repentance of sin is a theological concept that rests in the dual existence of both God and "sin" (as defined as willful disobedience TO that Holy God and His commands). "Repentance" without God as the reason for that repentance is a "human construct" that does not change the basic nature of the "beast." And the "beast" is sin in all its forms and its results.

It is obvious from your husband's actions that he does not believe in God. I assume the same holds true for you unless you have had a change in that area since your own "cheatin' days."


You asked a valid question that deserves an honest answer, which you will get here, unlike the way your husband treats you, even if it does cause you pain or hurt feelings.

"Is that the philosophy here? No matter what, people are damned for the rest of their life for things they did earlier?"

Some people here DO think that way. That is their right. This is especially true for BETRAYED Spouses who have had their Unfaithful Spouse treat them to the same behavior you treated your former husbands. They see you, at least from an emotional reaction standpoint, as "getting a taste of what you put your former husbands through and what they are being put through by their similarly unfaithful spouse."

I think the term you are looking for is FORGIVENESS. The "problem" with wanting forgiveness for past sins is that, once again, SIN is a theological concept and the only person who CAN forgive sin and "wipe the slate clean" is God. PEOPLE tend to forgive AS God has forgiven them for their own sins. If God has not forgiven the sins (because someone has rejected the only way TO have their sins forgiven), WHY would it be surprising if other people, "mere humans and not themselves God," would not be forgiving of what God has not forgiven?

What happens without that is similar to that of a convicted rapist who is now "sorry" they got caught, maybe even "sorry" that they caused so much pain. But others do not want that rapist around because the basic nature has not changed. As long as a person has not truly surrendered their life to God through accpetance of Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, they remain "as they were," still sinners controlled by their "sin-nature."

Can people CHOOSE fidelity over infidelity even without God? Yes of course. But without God, each person remains the "god" of their own life and is accountable only to themselves for what is "Right and Wrong." Clearly your husband has never changed, even if you have decided at the "late date" (following at least 5 affairs and a couple of divorces) that perhaps fidelity in marriage IS what you want, and adjusted your behaviors to align with that new thought.

So here you are asking how to save your marriage to an unchanged cheater, one who WILL NOT be an open book to you and who maintains his secrecy SO HE CAN continue to cheat whenever the mood hits him.

That task alone would be daunting enough. But you "flip out" when others here, suffering from or having suffered through and emerged victorious from adultery by THEIR spouse, "offend" you by pointing out you are getting now what you gave to your former husbands and what they have received from their own spouses?

Humanista, if you really want help, there needs to be some fundamental changes in both yourself and in your husband.

The question is whether or not either one of you is ready and willing to make the needed changes.

Remember this if you don't remember anything else, it takes TWO to have a successful marriage and it takes TWO to have a CHANCE at recovering a marriage assaulted by adultery.

Good luck.

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