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#1931993 08/26/07 06:56 AM
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mvg Offline OP
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I found out on July 29-
I did not check behind my husband UNTIL my intuition was just to strong. I checked his personal messages on a favorite deer hunting site and there they were...page after page after page of messages from a "new" member. I knew there was a new female on the board, he told me, and told me she was divorced 3 times, yada yada yada but loves to deer hunt. I told him at that time I don't have a good feeling about this, but he ignored my plea to ignore her. And he also told her how I felt.

It didn't take long for intimate messages to start going back and forth. He invited her to a cookout and to check out our land for hunting, now she lives 6 hours away. SHE CAME. Didn't really speak but a few words to him or me but she came. I found out she had hit on a few of the other married men at the cookout and online.

I was/am devastated! Upon confronting him I heard it all...you're blowing this up out of proportion, you're crazy, we're just friends, it was all jokingly said, etc.
He has left me emotionally empty for so long, and here he gives her (EVEN at that time on the internet only) compliments, sweet sayings, think of me, A SONG, sexy talk, etc. He even suggested they meet up even if it was a long ways. And it's all jokes?! Ha, I'm NOT that stupid.

He never sincerely admitted he was sorry or wrong. He said the words but I knew he wasn't sincere. It was a LONG couple of weeks for him to admit sincerely, (I think) this was wrong. I don't know if that's because I started seeing a counselor, I was falling totally to pieces, I told him it it wasn't wrong why didn't you tell me...or better yet would you want your adult children to know about it? And then said I'm ready to throw the towel in. He doesn't see this as a cyber affair/infidility because there was no physical encounter.

Things have been better, there are more hugs, kisses, I love you's but there is still a long ways to go. I still need more and I want a better marriage then we had.

I'm so scared that some little thing is going to happen, may or may not have anything to do with this and I'm just going to have a melt down. One day I feel better, ok we can do this, the next, I doubt his motives, actions, everything.
Am I CRAZY? Is this normal? When does your inner strength come back? Why do I keep feeling like if I had done something different it wouldn't have happened? And when do you really truly forgive? He's asked to be forgiven, and at the time I said I did, but I'm not sure now...it still hurts so bad and the betrayal is deep. He is trying but I'm just not sure about me, will I ever feel emotionally safe with him again?


EA4-7/07,Dday7/29,NC 7/30/07
ME 47 WH 48
Married 30 yrs.
2 DD,4 GC
Found out
Learning
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Posts: 6,087
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HI MVG,

Welcome to MB! You've come to the right place to find out how to rebuild your M.

The weekends are usually very slow around here, but I'm sure that there will be more replies later...

First off... You are NOT crazy. It sounds like your H is having an Emotional Affair (EA) over the internet. The feelings that you have are perfectly normal and rightly so... Your H is spending energy on this Other Woman(OW) that he should be spending on you.

If you haven't done so already, read the articles here on the MB web site and study up on Plan-A. Your H's actions were 100% his choice... so don't feel like he did this because of anything that you did or didn't do for him, OK? It was his choice to start this EA with the OW.

Let us know if you have any specific questions that we can help you with and I'm sure that there will be some great people that can give you some advice based on what worked or didn't work for them in a similar situation.

Again, welcome to MB!

Semper Fi,

RIF


Me, BS

Her, Forgiven

Married Dec 86

Multiple A's that ended '90

Rebuilding In Faith since then...

Currently deployed to Iraq, but TEXAS is Home!
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MVG,

RIF is right.....your H is having an EA. Mine did, too.....started innocently enough....but he did NOT tell me about it like your H did.

Check out my sig line. I did not find MB until after D-Day #3. You can avoid that by learning all you can from this site.

You might consider reposting on the GQII board which gets more traffic.

So glad you're seeking info on MB. It will help you save your marriage....in fact MB has actually saved my life. Details in my sig line story "Mr. Romance Saga".

Ace


FWH/BW (me)57+ M:36+ yr.
4 D-Days: Jun-Nov 06 E/PA~OW#2 (OW#1 2000)
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Please know that internet infidelity can and will progress to a PA. I wish I had found this site a year ago. I would have done everything differently.

Whatever you do, do not ignore this. It is a real and immediate threat to your marriage.


ME - 37 WH - 36 M -15 years Kids - 13,9,5 D-Day 07-06 and many times since Status - Plan B initiated 8/25/2007. Who knows from here?
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Hi mvg,

It sounds from what you are saying that your H was not willing to acknowledge his actions with this OW for two weeks. But if I understand you correctly, he did finally admit that he was engaging in inappropriate behavior with her?

Was that cookout a bunch of hunters at your house or at a lodge? Did you find the emails they had sent back and forth after the cookout?

Has he been willing to send a no contact letter to her? He really should write an email to her thaat states that his interactions with her was a cruel indulgence that his wife did not deserve. He should also tell her that he wants no more contact with her and request that she not contact him. If she sends any further contact both of you should just delete it from your messages without reading it. Better yet, if you can block her email address--do it after you send the no contact letter. You need to read and approve that no contact letter before it is sent. There should be nothing in the letter about him being sorry, or the relationship was fun, yada, yada.

Is he willing to send such a letter? Then, he should have no contact with this woman. In fact, from the sounds of the situation, there are a few other wives that probably feel the same way about her since she hit on a few men at the cookout. So, either your H stops going to any place she might hunt at, or she can be told that she is not welcome at the hunting lodge or wherever she was invited. Certainly it should be made clear in the no contact letter that she is not welcome to hunt on your land.

Your H is one hundred percent responsible for the activity he engaged in with this OW. You are not at all responsible for his decision to engage in an emotional affair.

You are both 50 per cent responsible for the state of your marriage. This web site can show you how to rebuild your marriage. It will take time. Your hurt is understandable and very real. I know because it happened to me.

After the no contact letter, and NO CONTACT, your H needs to figure out how he let his boundaries down to engage in such wayward and hurtful behavior.

The stuff he was saying to her was all foggy bull crap. It has nothing to do with how he felt about her. It was all about how he felt about himself. The affair is not at all about the other person (OP). The affair is all about the wayward spouse. He did not know her, how could he write a song to her?? That song was part of his fog and his need for affirmation.

The two of you will need to sit down and fill out the emotional needs questionaire found on this site as well as the love buster questionaire. The two of you can start meeting each others needs and build a better marriage.

He needs to set up boundaries so that he does not do this to you and your R again.

So how was your M otherwise?

Hugs to you. I was where you are a little over a year ago. You and he have work to do, but it does get better.


Lake
BW-53
FWH-54
H had EA 3 weeks 06
Married 1977

N C 4-10-06
3 DSs
In Recovery
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,516
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mvg Offline OP
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Thank you all for your kind words. Part of me understands completely what you are saying and the other part is still so hurt.

The cookout was at our house. Neighbors, friends and hunting buddies.

Lake, I did ask him to write a letter to her to cut any and all contact. However, that was after I asked her to not associate with him due to their inappropriate messaging.I had not at that time found the intimate messages. Of course got the typical responses from her about having to look over my spouse's shoulder, etc. He said he would but never could come up with the right thing to say other than leave me alone. Not exactly what I had in mind as he persued her as much as she egged him on. I do not believe there has been any more contact because now I am looking over his shoulder, questioning things, being much more proactive. His denial that this was a serious problem, yes wrong but not serious, was another kick in the stomach.

Since my telling him I'm ready to quit seemed to have gotten his attention. He has been much more attentive and starting to see what this has done emotionally to me. It's just still so hard...the doubts just linger,and their messages just hang in my head.

I'm going to suggest we do the emotional questionaire and the love buster one too. If nothing else those will definately point out our differing views and maybe our common values.

I guess like everyone else, I just NEVER thought this would happen. That he would do anything like this.

Again thank you all.


EA4-7/07,Dday7/29,NC 7/30/07
ME 47 WH 48
Married 30 yrs.
2 DD,4 GC
Found out
Learning
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,087
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RIF Offline
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Hi MVG,

It sounds like your H is 'saying the right things', but now that this is out in the open, you both need to deal with it together.

Have you given any thought to what boundaries would help protect your heart from further pain? Here are some things that I would ask for if I were in your situation:

* 100% NO CONTACT with this OW (internet, phone, e-mail, etc.)
* All of your H's passwords to the hunting site. (and I'd install a Key-Logger program w/o his knowledge to verify)
* Have your H join another hunting club. (back to that 100% NC!)
* Read SAA together and find a good pro-marriage MC and start going together.

Now, if he agrees to do this, then you need to be willing to search for what EN's he would like as well... this is a two way street... if his passion is hunting, then go hunting with him... your goal here is not to "take away his fun"... the goal is to PROTECT your M.

Semper Fi,

RIF


Me, BS

Her, Forgiven

Married Dec 86

Multiple A's that ended '90

Rebuilding In Faith since then...

Currently deployed to Iraq, but TEXAS is Home!
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,516
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mvg Offline OP
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He's agreed to the NC, I have all the passwords, not a problem on hunting club-she WILL NOT be joining this one, he agreed (or was afraid of me) when her dues showed up they were returned immediately by me with his knowledge. I'm looking into getting a keylogger. I'm working towards him working with the info on this site. Especially the EN and love busters. I will give him credit since his admitting to all of this, he has been agreeable (mostly). There has been a change in his attitude. I'm hoping and praying that with some hard work on both of our parts we can rebuild trust and a better marriage. It's just still a hard reality for me especially with nagging doubts. Maybe that is normal? And I pray that they saying is true, time heals all wounds.

I've been reading alot on this site and it's very helpful. It's just hard doing all I can to make him see what we CAN have and still dealing with my own self confidence or lack of at this point.

Thanks!


EA4-7/07,Dday7/29,NC 7/30/07
ME 47 WH 48
Married 30 yrs.
2 DD,4 GC
Found out
Learning
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 6,087
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RIF Offline
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Hi MVG,

Sounds like he's doing very well in trying to meet your need for him to protect the M. That's GREAT!!!!

It will take a while for your feelings of betrayal to go down... For now, acept his ACTIONS as small steps in rebuilding your trust. It will take consistent actions by him over a period of time (usually depends on how long the EA went on) for you to start to begin to trust him again. Trust but verify for now...

Have you discussed some things that you can do for your H to meet his ENs?

Based on what you've shared with us, I'd say that you are both well on your way to rebuilding your M. You'll have some bumps along the way, but if you'll both remain focused on your goal, and will keep the communications line open between each other, then you will do fine.

Wishing you both the best!

Semper Fi,

RIF


Me, BS

Her, Forgiven

Married Dec 86

Multiple A's that ended '90

Rebuilding In Faith since then...

Currently deployed to Iraq, but TEXAS is Home!
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 982
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Time plus work on both your parts does heal wounds. Your feelings at this point are very normal. Did they contact each other by cell phone at all?

If you can, it would be good to block her email address. That way, even if she attempts to contact your H or you, you will not have to see her foolish words.

Do you think your H can be open and honest in filling out the emotional needs questionaire and Love Busters Questionaire? If will help both of you to heal if you are able to demonstrate to him that you can meet his needs --assuming that no contact is actually established.
my best to you


Lake
BW-53
FWH-54
H had EA 3 weeks 06
Married 1977

N C 4-10-06
3 DSs
In Recovery
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 30
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I can empathize with you as my husband did the same thing 10 months ago. He never actually physically saw the women, but only communicated over the internet and knew what they looked like through their photos sent to him, but he never sent any to them. He even disguised his name. However, over the months I have learned that this was more just a fantasy thing for him, almost like a game. I think they were just feeding his physical desires. When I discovered it I was devastated and had found out it had been going on over a year. The bad part was that the photos sent to him turned into "porn" photos of them over time. The part that hurt the worst for me was the "talk" he spoke to them and him telling them what he thought of them. etc. I still am hurt when I think of that, but like one of the responders said, what he said to her is all crap. I know he does not personally feel that way about them, he just wanted them to satisy his own desires. I too threatened to leave my husband and call it quits and that scared him too. The no contact with OW is a must for him. I am still learning all the great things this site has to offer marriages and learn to have the patience and faith to try them too. Sorry I don't have a lot of advice, but wanted to let you know your not alone.

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mvg Offline OP
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I'm planning on bringing up this site and the wealth of info available so I can see if he will do the EN & Love Buster questinnaires. I have asked what needs of his are not being met and he said none. So I think the EN will be very enlightening for both of us.

Lake there was minimal contact by cell phone and OW left a voice message for him after I contacted her. It is H work cell and I've been checking the missed calls and voice mails so far nada, H did say he would tell me if she did call which he says he wouldn't answer, and that if there was a voice message he would not delete without me hearing it. Do I believe him...I am not sure so I just keep checking when he's not around. I do believe there has been no contact however I do NOT want to be so naive that I would overlook any signs, so I try to believe what is being said but as RIF said trust but verify.

I can't tell you how relieved I feel to have you folks respond with your advice. Especially the "I am not crazy part", and we're on the right track. Because this surely does test your sanity!


EA4-7/07,Dday7/29,NC 7/30/07
ME 47 WH 48
Married 30 yrs.
2 DD,4 GC
Found out
Learning
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 982
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He certainly sounds remorseful. If she calls his cell phone and he does not answer, but she leaves a voice message and he brings that voice message to you, I suggest that you just both delete it together without listening to it. Keep in mind that "no contact" means "no contact" for both of you. If you found that he had violated "no contact" I might have different advise for you. But if he is not violating "no contact", you should both refrain from hearing or reading any of her efforts to communicate.

It is a small thing, but my H's OW sent him a lengthy text message a week or two after the "no contact" letter. Something dumb about hearing a song on the radio again that reminded her of their "relationship". I read it and showed it to my H. I should have just deleted it without reading it.

It did not put him into a withdrawal state as he never missed her once he saw how the secrecy of the relationship and the flirty things he said to her hurt me. But it was just something that our relationship building did not need and was no benefit to us. Once the EA is over, let it be truly over for both of you (continue to verify NC though, like RIF says.)

I do have to say I read some satisfyiing things on another BS's thread: She had called OW and told her all the special secret things that OW had told her WH about OW's marriage and marital problems. OW was angry that BW knew all these special little secrets WH had shared with BW. It made me laugh with satisfaction <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />. But really, once its over, best that it be over for both of you.


Lake
BW-53
FWH-54
H had EA 3 weeks 06
Married 1977

N C 4-10-06
3 DSs
In Recovery
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,516
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mvg Offline OP
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Thanks Lake! I have another question...After about the first week I've tried very hard NOT to bring up the EA with my husband because he feels I'm rubbing his nose in it, which I wasn't, it's the nagging questions, however I will admit even tho that wasn't my intent, it didn't hurt my feelings. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Now the question...I do still have a few questions I would like answered from him. Good idea or not? I had orignally told him brutal honesty, which he didn't do, and still to a certain point hasn't. Do I just swallow hard and move on or do I again ask him the questions that are nagging at me? And if yes ask, should that be done as we go thru the MB process or when?

Thanks y'all!!! You truly are saving my sanity here.


EA4-7/07,Dday7/29,NC 7/30/07
ME 47 WH 48
Married 30 yrs.
2 DD,4 GC
Found out
Learning
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 982
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The general concensus seems to be:
You have a right to have answers to all questions that you have. Some people give their FWS "Joseph's Letter" in order to help the FWS understand the BS's need for information. I am not good at links. Just do a search for Joseph's Letter.

Write down your questions and have an established period of time each week that you ask these questions of your FWH. This gives you time to decide, 'do I really want to know more information about that piece of the EA?' Many find that they decide they don't want to know all because the 'all' stays in your mind and is hurtful. Even though you know that the 'all' was fog-speak and did not say anything about the reality of the little pretend 'relationship' between your FWH and the OW, it still hurts-a lot-. You have to decide how much you want to know, but you have a right to know all that you decide you want to know.

I could not stop myself from wanting to know all, every little nuance. I'm just that kind of gal <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

But I have to say, it has been hard on recovery because it did have a very rough impact on my FWH. It was a big hit on his self-esteem that he fell into such a stupid little deal as the EA was. Here he did the whole EA thing because he wanted and enjoyed the validation the EA gave him and then he got caught and has had to bear the brunt of my hurt and sadness.

Part of his rationalization when he was in the EA was ability to ignore Lake because Lake was such a strong, independent woman. Well, Lake was not such a strong, independent woman, she has been a woman scorned, and you know what that means. So my FWH who needed validation and admiration has had to deal with me.

It's a balancing act that I don't feel like I have managed very well. I want a strong, confident man. I have been so hurt that I know I have struck a blow to my FWH's ability to be that strong, confident man that I need.

My FWH was also not fully forthcoming for the first weeks after the EA was discovered. He kept trying to minimize it in order to protect me. Also, he literally could not remember some parts of the EA to even tell me about them. Combination probably of blocking them out of his memory and also probably that the words and actions during the EA weren't as important to him as the FEELING he got from saying the stuff he said and hearing/reading the stuff she said back to him.

Hope this answers your question--sort of long winded but your sitch seems similar to mine and I hope you do well in your recovery.


Lake
BW-53
FWH-54
H had EA 3 weeks 06
Married 1977

N C 4-10-06
3 DSs
In Recovery
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,516
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mvg Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Thanks! I'm going to search for the Joesph's letter now.
Positive news...H has agreed to participate in MB! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And I am getting to know what you mean about the balancing act. I'm trying to be very careful with what I really need to know and what is just going to do more harm, and I think he is trying to also be very careful with me. Careful as in concerned, I don't think deceitful...I don't think he's been totally honest but I don't think this is an act either.

Thank you all.


EA4-7/07,Dday7/29,NC 7/30/07
ME 47 WH 48
Married 30 yrs.
2 DD,4 GC
Found out
Learning
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,516
M
mvg Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,516
Update...H is agreeable in MB! We should start tonight, or by this weekend. I'm very anxious. It's alot of info to absorb. Please keep us in your prayers.


EA4-7/07,Dday7/29,NC 7/30/07
ME 47 WH 48
Married 30 yrs.
2 DD,4 GC
Found out
Learning
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,516
M
mvg Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,516
the saga continues under Anxiety Attacks in the General Discussion Form.

Thanks to you all that have supported and helped me.


EA4-7/07,Dday7/29,NC 7/30/07
ME 47 WH 48
Married 30 yrs.
2 DD,4 GC
Found out
Learning

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