Very good questions. I fought with this same problem before I chose how to handle the situation. There are a few reasons that I decided to handle it this way.

1) The OW and I were friends before the A happened. When she and my H got together I had a 4 yr old, a 1 yr old, and was about 7 months pregnant. My H and I were seperated at the time but trying to put our family back together (or so I was told). My 4 yr old was already very attatched to OW and her children. We spent every weekend with them at her home. She was engaged to my H's cousin at the time and my H was living in a little one bedroom apartment that was attatched to their house.

I could not simply change gears like that on my 4 yr old. It would have confused her too much. She wouldn't have understood why she must suddenly hate someone we all liked and were with often.

2) I knew how much OW adored my kids even before the A. I knew she would never harm them. I talked to my attorney to see if there was anyway I could keep them from having to go to her house for visitation after the A started. I was told not unless she was a threat to them. So, I decided then to let that go. Even though my H was having an A and was a severe drug addict..I wasn't afraid for them to be with him. He has always had a rule that there were to be no drugs around the kids...he was very stern on that point.

Until he became violent towards the end, I never feared for them. As soon as he lost it..I got a RO and kept him away from them completely for over 4 months.

3) The OW and I were always very nice to eachother when we had to see eachother. We only yelled at eachother once in the whole time the A was going on.

These points of our circumstances made it a little easier for me to decide that was the way I needed to handle it.

I don't feel this attitude harmed my children. My youngest two had absolutely no idea what was going on. As my oldest got older she started to understand on her own. When she began asking questions I answered them honestly. I told her that what her father was doing was wrong but that he still loved her. I told her the OW was not a bad person, but that she made bad decisions.

My oldest later decided she wanted less to do with OW on her own. I fully supported her decision..but it was hers and not mine.

I encourage them to be friendly with her now because she is their half sisters mother and will be in their lives no matter what. I am simply teaching my children to respect those who don't neccessarily deserve it. I am raising my girls to be good Christian women. This does not mean, however, that they will not come to understand the whole situation. But at 6,3,and 2...I don't feel that it is a conversation for now.

I don't want to TJ on Lakeri, but if you have any other questions feel free to ask. You can also get some more answers if you hop over to my thread on the Recovery forum. It's under Another Heartache...there is some about the OC and her mom on the Pregnancy/Child forum under my old name lostanduncertain. I think the thread is called And the second bomb has dropped. I would be happy to answer any other questions you have.

I also want to point out that all this doesn't mean that she is my best friend. My H and I fought often to limit her involvement with my kids. But it was kept between me and him...not them.

I do not feel that this approach is appropriate for children who are old enough to understand what is going on. You said your children were older. They should be told the truth of the situation and then you should have made it known to them that the OW was not the kind of person they need to be around. I would have left the decision of how much they interact with her WHEN THEY WERE WITH THEIR FATHER ONLY up to them. I would have very much made a very strong stand to them about how A's harm a family and how wrong it is.

Also, if they are over 14 I think that they can decide not to go for visitation. I am not sure on that one and would encourage anyone to check the law on that in their state.

I chose to do what I did because my kids were so young. It would have done more harm to try to make her the enemy at that point. Kids are smart..they will get it on their own. It didn't take my oldest long to understand that things were not right.

Hope this helped.

Hi Guidedcertainty.

Thanks for the message.



I know there is probably not much I can do to keep the kids away from the OW especially now that there is the OC involved. I try to be civil with them both but I can't say in my case that the OW is a good person who made bad choices. This is not the first time she has been involved with a married man. In fact I know of only one relationship she has had with someone who was not married. In fact as late as the beginning of this year she was still seeing the husband of another of her co-workers. I don't think she would deliberately harm the children but I also don't think it is the healthiest environment for them. But anyway that will probably be taken out of my hands because I know my WH will ask the Court to let him have the kids for weekends and holidays so I will try not to get too worked up about that.

What pains me the most is that I will probably have to live with this woman for the rest of my life as a part of my life and that of my children. Holidays, birthdays, graduations, weddings just about everything that would have been special to me will be marred by this person. I suppose that's one thing that divorce will never solve. Whether or not there is a chance for reconciliation, I suppose you can never say never but right now my heart is no longer in it. It has been too long and he has said and done too many things for me to feel like working on this any more.

I am coming to terms with the whole situation and I think the divorce will bring some closure. I know it won't be easy but right now its what I need.

Thanks for the prayers and the support. I hope that all is going well for you.

Lakeri..

Many of us here understand your anguish over OW spending time around your children. I have seen many discussions where the OW does not wish for the BW to be around the OC, and feels very justified in feeling this way.

When the tables are turned, it is painful to hear that there may not be much one can do about it. I do not agree with GC in that encouraging your children "to hug" is the best way. It's not going to work for everyone.

Demanding respect from your children is one thing. Expecting them to love and cherish someone who willingly helped break up a family is asking alot.

Being there for your children, and allowing good, decent, honest dicussions about what is right and what is wrong will get all of you through this.

I am praying for you.

Eibrab

Lakeri -

How are you doing? I understand how you feel and I promise it will get easier. The best thing you can do is just take one day at a time and figure out how to best handle that day. Don't stress yourself out too much about the future right now.

I also had to spend the special days with OW. It hurt, but I never let her know it. She was much more uncomfortable than I was because she knew she was the one that didn't belong. The more you let her know she bothers you..the more she will do. Just imagine she is an annoying fly and shoo her away. Mentally of course.

Lots of prayers are coming your way.

Eibrab -

My sitch was a little different with OW. I don't push them to hug her..I just don't throw a fit when they do. I tell them to tell her good bye and how they do it is up to them.

They don't love and cherish her..they like her. Big difference. They love and cherish their half sister...not her mother. They don't ask to see OW when she isn't around. They never speak of her. It is not harming my children to be nice and show an adult respect. You can respect someone without liking them.

And as I said my children are very young. I would not recommend it for older children at all.

We all handle things differently, but in no way will my children think what happened was right. I just do not feel that they should be taught to forgive their father and be nice to him when hating the OW. She was equally responsible along with their father. Why should she be hated and him forgiven? Especially when it was my H that pursued (sp?) her. They were both at fault and therefore both in need of forgivness and a little respect...even from me.

Grab a bible.

Luke 6:27-38

Romans 12:9-21

I treat her this way because God told me to. Lakeri is in anguish...I am at peace. It is God's job to judge her and punish her, it is my job to forgive her just as I ask him to forgive me.

GC ..

You make some valid points, and I too, am well versed on the Bible.

I will not speak for Lakeri, nor anyone but myself, here. I am thinking that this whole line of discussion stems from positive or negative influences on the children.

In your thread here, you have stated that your OW has criminal proceedings against her, has an abusive lifestyle and abuses drugs.

Being an immoral, unrepentant person would be enough for me. You have overcome far more in forgiving than I, admittedly, have.

But, I too, feel driven by God...so it is not a contest.

Blessings,

Eibrab

No, this isn't a contest. Just wanted you to understand where my decision came from. And please understand that I have had over two years to make that decision. At first I was very angry and did everything I could to be difficult.

My forgiveness is a very recent thing. As you pointed out, my earlier posts are the proof. LA had to open my eyes and get me to see the reality of my situation. Then I was able to put everything in place and move ahead.

Lakeri - How are you?? Looking for an update from you!

Hi all,

Its been rather quiet the last few days. The divorce hearing was scheduled for this morning (Monday). Last week the kids had school plays. We were at my daughter's school on Wednesday and he was being all nice and friendly. He repeated the performance at our Sons' school on Saturday., even coming to sit with us although I had given him space seeing as he says I'm always trying to cling to him. Well as usual he had a surprise ready for us on friday. That afternoon he filed a response to the divorce petition denying everything including the fact that he no longer lives at home (even though he's been gone 2 years) or that he had another child. In the preliminary meetings when he met my lawyer he told her that he wanted the divorce but he knew he was in the wrong and that he had no grounds against me. So we agreed that I would file and we would settle the matter without any fuss. Now he's claiming everything. He says that I was cruel to him (its a matrimonial offence here- but not the way he thinks) and that the evidence of this is the phone records showing that I called him. since when is a wife calling her husband cruelty - maybe when he's not home and the OW doesn't like the wife calling <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />. Any way the Judge wasn't buying the whole story and told his lawyer(he didn't show for the hearing) that the best thing to do was to allow me time to reply to his petition and then to settle the matter.

He gives me the impression that he's grasping at straws now. I guess he thought I would never go through with this. The strange thing is the deeper we get into the proceedings the more I feel that it is the right thing. I don't think he was going to get out of the fog soon and even if he did his pride would neverhave allowed him to attempt any kind of reconciliation. He's like that. He never changes his mind no matter how wrong he may be.

The battle now is for custody of the kids, but since I've had them for the last 2 years I don't think the Court will want to change that. I am willing to let him have the kids more than he does not which is every other Saturday.

Otherwise I am doing much better now. I feel stronger and more in control. I don't feel so much as though things are just happening to me but like I am choosing the direction my life should take. That feels much better.

Thanks all for your paryers and support.

I'm sure the change in response was developed to protect as much money for him self and his rights with the kids. It doesn't have anything to do with reality. It's just the proper legally way to save him all his attorney can.

Best wishes and hope you and the kids have a good holiday.

FTS

How are things going, Lakeri? It does feel good to have a direction. Very calming. I hope you can get thru this mess without too many more surprises from him. You are still in my thoughts and prayers.

Hope you have a wonderful Christmas if I don't talk to you before!

Hi Guidedcertainty,

I hope you had a nice Christmas and Happy New Year to you. The Christmas break was not too bad. The kids were away with their dad. Its the first time we've been apart for Christmas and it was hard but not as bad as I thought it would be. My family were great and they kept me busy throughout the holidays.

So far there haven't been any surprises but that's probably because I have tried to avaoid seeing or talking to my WH.It makes things so much easier. He does still complain about things, like telling his friends that he pays me so much money every month and that he's about to lose his house and he doesn't know who advised me to go and file for a divorce. I take it as alot of fogbabble because I and a few others including my lawyer can clearly recall when he said that all he wants is a divorce!

Well we have a court date on the 28th. WH is trying to b friendly, calling and making small talk or hanging around after dropping off the kids. Earlier I thought it would help to encourage him to talk, but that was more of a Plan A thing. I think now its better to have no contact because I don't get set up for anymore hurt or disappointment and its helping me to move on. I still kind of hope for a reconciliation but under the current circumstances I don't see that happening.

But otherwise i am feeling much better, my family and friends have been great and they give me alot of support.

I hope that you are well and wish you all the best and lots of happiness in this new year.

Lakeri,

I am glad you had plenty of support thru the holidays. Sometimes family and friends can make all the difference.

I think men have trouble remembering what they want from one time to the next. I always felt like my WH was keeping us around as a back up family in case OW didn't work out. I am glad for your sake that you are staying away from him.

Keep your head up and don't forget to give us and update every once and awhile. Good luck in court on the 28th.

Hi there,



I know what you mean. Sometimes I get the feeling that my WH wants to pay just enough attention so that we can keep hoping that he'll come back. Well this weekend he came to pick the kids as usual but he came late and brought them back early. It turns out that he and the OW have moved out of the apartment and into a five bedroom house in an upmarket suburb. The kids say they had been to the house once before while they were renovating but he told them that it was a friend’s house. Looks like he didn't want them to tell me anything before they moved (like I'd go looking for them <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Anyway I don't think he got a second mortgage so he probably sold the apartment to pay for the house. That's what I'm thinking. Well it doesn't really matter because I had not asked for any share of the apartment anyway. I'm only a bit worried that this is part of his plan to get custody of the kids seeing as it would have been difficult to justify custody if you were going to be living with four kids in a two bedroom apartment. I'm trying to keep ahead of him on the legal front. It’s a bit hard if your not naturally the scheming kind especially since he's got the expert schemer (OW) advising him along the way.

On the other hand maybe now that he's got her a house of her own (she was always gunning for the house where I live-even came out and complained to my WH once that she didn't think I was ever going to leave the house) maybe they will settle down and we can all get on with our lives. Somehow I get the feeling that's not going to happen.

Once again I'm surprised that I didn't break down and cry at the news but I did get a bit upset and I could feel the depression setting in but I am working hard to keep going without letting him bring me down.

My sister did tell me though that she was told by colleagues of hers (she, my WH and the OW working in finance/banking and everybody knows everybody) he is leaving his current job. Apparently they were not too happy with his performance and also I know from other people he works with that the management was never really pleased with this whole situation. The company he's supposed to be going to is one he always looked down on. Never thought that they were professional enough. Its funny because about a year ago he told my sister that I could make all the fuss I wanted but he was M.... and he could survive anything and that I should just be careful not to annoy him because I would have to face the consequences.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> well somehow I think all is not that well in paradise.

Anyway I'm preparing for Court. Hopefully he will see sense before then, but if not, I will need all your prayers.

I also found an amazing group of Christian women, they invited me for a fellowship on New Year’s eve. Many of them have been through what I’m facing and worse. It was really nice to find strong women who have survived the worst that men can throw at them and are now worshipping God and supporting other women. It’s so comforting to know that your not alone and that there are people nearby who can hold your hand and tell you that they understand and you know that they do. It was really uplifting and in a way I felt that my prayers had been answered. I had been praying to God to give me the strength to get through all this and come out at the other side and I was expecting Him to give me the strength myself but instead I got this phone call from this lady I hadn’t seen for ages inviting me to come and spend time with other women who had shared my experience. It made me realize that God really works in His own way and all we have to do is to wait on Him and believe that he is delivering us from our situation. It was an awesome feeling. Since then I have been getting messages of comfort and encouragement from all sorts of people. Friends have called to tell me how strong they think I am. It has been really encouraging and its helping me to build my confidence and my self-esteem.

I know now that whatever way things go, I am going to make it through and there are better things in store for me, whether it with my WH or not.

Thanks for the message and the thoughts,

Take care

Lakeri - Thanks for the update. I am so sorry you are going thru all of this, but I am glad you are handling it so well. I am also pleased you found a good support group. They are worth their weight in gold. I will be praying for you and your upcoming court date. Nothing about these situations can ever be easy.

My feeling, however, is that the sudden change in your WH about the divorce and the kids is coming from the OW. I am betting she is wanting you as out of the picture as you can get. If your husband has custody she will only have to deal with you a few times a month. I bet she is pushing hard. Don't let her get to you. They are your kids and you let her know it. Stand strong. It will all work out in the end.

Hi,

I,ve been away from the board for a while. Things got so busy at work for a while. Its reporting season, so we had reports to write and submit for all sorts of different projects.

Anyway it has been keeping me busy and I think that's a good thing. My WH has also been busy introducing the OW and baby to family. He comes to pick the kids so they can all go together for family events. THe last time they went they "accidentally" mixed the OC's stuff with my kids stuff, so they came home with them. I decided to not say anything about it and just pretend not to notice. The next week my WH asked to meet me to discuss some issues about the mortgage. We had at one time talked about how to handle the mortgage, but nothing came out of it. Well he asked for a meeting and proposed a date. I told him that he would have to check later to confirm. I deceided to wait and see if he would call back. (I had decided to stop calling him, or talking or making any unncessary contact - which is what he said he wanted). Well the day of the meeting he called to confirm. (This was Tuesday last week and we had a Court date on Monday this week). He said that he wanted to continue paying the mortgage because it was something that he wants to do. He then asked about the custody issue. I told him that everything he needed to know was in the reply to his cross petition. He then said he didn't understand it so I advised him to talk to his lawyer. I did tell him that custody is a legal arrangement and that he would have visitation as per the reply. We basically agreed to the suggestion that he had made in his cross petition. He then started making a lot of small talk asking about the kids and all sorts of little things. This was a pretty public place and his colleagues were passing by and he would wave and say hi. (never introduced me, even when they came over) Eventually I figured that he had nothing more important to say so I finished my drink and waited. He got the message and we left. But before that he asks me if I had seen one of the keys to a door in his house because he couldn't find it and he thought the kids might have it. I was so mad that he had even asked that. He never even calls me when he's going to take the kids out. He calls on the home number and talks to them directly. Also his 17 year old cousin was with them that day and he came home with them and my WH could have asked him about the keys. I just couldn't believe he was doing that. this fog is a really crazy thing.

I thought that after all that has happened, he would be eager to get on with the divorce, but he and his lawyer didn't show at Court and instead sent another lawyer to ask for an adjournment. My lawyer proposed and the Judge agreed that the two Counsel should meet and resolve any contentious issues and report back next week. I haven't heard from him and I don't think I will but now I have to wait again to see what will happen.

I don't know if he's stalling or they were genuinely not able to come, but I think I am going to be in for a long struggle. The next date is 7th, so I will keep you posted.

Lakeri,

I am glad you are staying busy and staying out of the drama. I most definitely want to know how the 7th goes. You are still in my prayers and I hope that things can get resolved for you. I still can't believe he is pulling this custody crap. I am so sorry, hun.

Hugs to you. Let me know how things go.

Guided

Hi Guided,

I'm back again and the drama continues.

We had Court yesterday but the session didn't take place because the Judge was not in. However he did contact the two lawyers and advised them that if they had reached a settlement on the main issues, they should draft the necessary papers and have them filed in Court. The lawyers had met last week to settle the outstanding issues and my lawyer and I thought that all had been settled. The WH's lawyer then says that his client does not want us to make any pronouncement on custody because he is still a bit uncomfortable with the issue and is worried that if I get custody he will not have a say in important decisions concerning the children. (He told a mutual friend earlier that he was worried that he would never see the kids again).

Anyway my lawyer told the other to just talk to his client and that he should have nothing to worry about. So nonetheless I decided to call him and find out exactly what his concern was. He said he didn't know what the lawyer was talking about (he wasn't in Court) and that he thought we had agreed on everything. He then called back and said that my lawyer misunderstood his and that we should proceed with the drafting of the papers. It’s possible that he's telling the truth so I will just have to wait and see whether he signs the papers once they're ready.

In the meantime though I was told by a relative that a friend who used to work with my WH and still works with the OW#1 told her that that all is not well in paradise. My WH left the place they used to work in but his current job is still in the same line of business so everybody knows everybody and everybody's business. Well apparently, he's up to his waywardness again and most interestingly, he seems to be following the very same script. You know you read other threads and you think, oh no, my situation is different and my WH is not like the others, but then something happens and it gets you thinking that hey these guys on MB really do know what they're talking about.

I don't know if this counts as D-Day#2 but anyway... Well the OW had OC late last year and she's been on maternity leave. Last year my WH was doing quite a bit of traveling and to one particular city. It turns out that there is another OW and.... wait for it.... she's one of his current workmates. Well his business opened a branch in another city and he decides to promote this lady and send her out to this branch. Apparently she wasn't the best suited person but the final decision was with him and he thought she was the best. (This is exactly what he did for OW#1 at the last job). When she got there she didn't do a very good job. Anyway WH started making frequent trips to this city and it turns out that they had started seeing each other. Well the management, which had been a bit weary of the situation with OW#1 got wind of this new relationship and decided to deal with it. Although there was no hard evidence of the affair, there was evidence of other unethical behavior on her part, so they fired her. Apparently WH was so mad that he was yelling at everybody and complaining about the firing. On his part, they also decided to relieve him of quite a few of his previous responsibilities which cuts his power down quite a bit. The last I heard is that he's looking for a new job.

What amazes me is that it’s almost the exact way that things happened in my case and this all happened almost immediately after OW#1 got pregnant. My WH and OW#1 have been living together now for just about 1 year. I suppose the allure of the affair’s beginning to wear off.

At first I felt kind of vindicated, almost like I could finally feel that the affair was not my fault, but then I also felt a bit sad. I feel sad for my WH, because he was such a focused person. He had dreams and ambitions and a lot of drive and I would never have thought that he would do anything to jeopardise his career, but now I just can't believe this is the person I knew for so many years. It like he's spiraling out of control and making such a mess of his life. I just wish that there was a way I could help him because I honestly believe that he needs it. The last few years he’s been surrounded by a whole lot of “yes” people who fawn over him and kiss the ground he walks on and those of us who dared to comment on anything he did were branded as “the one’s who don’t care about him, don’t understand him or don’t support him” and therefore he doesn’t want anything to do with us.

Even though the divorce is on-going I still feel some kind of responsibility for him and care about him. But I don’t think he will ever turn to me for support and I’m not sure that the one’s who he will turn to are the best support. Having said that though I have noticed that he’s a lot politer and not as arrogant when he talks to me and he inquires politely about the kids and stuff like that. I do encourage the kids to spend time with him and also for him to talk about any concerns about the kids but other than that I don’t talk to him much and never about anything else whether its work or family or anything. I try to keep our relationship down to being joint parents. I don’t know if that is burning bridges but it was what I needed to do to keep my sanity.

It’s a confusing situation and I’m not sure where to go from here.

((Lakeri)) the A is completely him. Let him go sweetie. An OOW? He has issues, big issues and it is not about YOU. I am so sorry.

Dear faithful follower,

I agree with you my WH has a lot of issues that he needs to deal with and I am realising this myself. My brother and sister have always been saying this but I never really took it that seriously.

I had decided that the best thing for me was to let go and hence the divorce. Since making that decision I have been able to focus a lot more on myself and not get so worked up. In the last few weeks I have actual found that I am beginning to enjoy myself a lot more. I have made lots of new friends and I'm getting out more and finding things to do to keep busy. I find that I no longer really think much about my WH. Well sometimes I do but it's not as often and the feelings are not as intense.

I've been away for the last few days. It was a much needed break. When I got back the kids gave me a box of expensive chocolates and said they were from their dad for me. I suppose they were supposed to be a Valentines Day gift which was very unexpected. I haven't said anything to him, first of all because I am maintaining no contact unless it is an emergency concerning the kids and secondly because I don't know what to make of it. From past experience I don't want to make anything of it because there have been times when he's done something, like the last time he went away for a while on a business trip (April last year) and brought me back some designer shirts, but then he turns around and says he meant nothing by it and that he still doesn't want to come back. So I think the best thing to do is to keep quiet about it and wait to see what happens next. It’s not like we're in Plan A now so I don't know if it would be appropriate to thank him for the chocolates. I suppose I could just thanking him politely the next time he comes for the kids. I'm just not sure how to handle things like this anymore.

Right now the divorce is basically in his hands. The lawyers have drawn up the papers and he needs to sign them. So until he signs we wait. If he doesn't sign then I have two options, to go through the ugly process of calling evidence of his adultery and going into court, or to just keep silent and let it all die. I'm still considering my next step.

bye for now

I am glad to see you letting go, lakeri. Please update us occasionally as D is not easy either. (((lakeri))) praying for you.

Hey, Lakeri. Sorry I wasn't around when you posted. Things have been hectic here. I am glad faithy was here to help you.

I am also very pleased that you have opted for divorce. Your H is just not in a position right now to give you the effort that recovery demands.

I am glad you have found new friends and are taking care of yourself for a change.

If it were me, I would be prepared to call up evidence of his adultery. I would not for a minute let him think you are willing to sweep it under the rug. Let him know exactly why you are done with him.

How is that beautiful little girl doing?

Keeping you and your children in my prayers as always.