As a BS, I kind of like this idea... What I *know* seems to slowly stop bothering me as long as my W is behaving in a trustworthy manner and protecting our marriage. The doubts have a way of just constantly popping into your mind all of the time. My W had 2 EA's and a PA. A PA to me is about the worst thing I could imagine her doing but its effect on me is actually fading because I feel she did tell me the truth. On the other hand, her earlier EAs still bother me to this day. I wonder if she just lied to me about them. Now we're 9 months into recovery, things are going well but I have to keep distracting myself from those thoughts. I really don't know what to do. I won't give any advice about lie detectors but if you can eliminate the questions for your husband, it will help him heal from this over time with constant care and protection on your part.

it is the lies and uncertainty that drives people nuts. the truth I can deal with...constantly doubting or wondering if I have gotten the truth would be the cancerous issue.

Question...

Vercswife- Have you ever had a sit-down, I'll tell everything, no more lies, no more 'lying by omission', straight up conversation with your husband?? Allowed him to ask any question he had...volunteer any information that you may have withheld up to that point?

And did you lie, or lie by omission during that if you did?

thats what has mae this so difficult i thinkm the way she did it was really just about the worst way for us to try and save this. We had multiple sit downs and revalations, but usually i was doing my research and catching her tripping over her lies and ommissions and outright falsehoods. We recovered and made up about 20-30 timers over the last 2 years. Each time me thinking i had the truth.
The last lie lasted about a Year, the PA. She finally came clean with it of her own accord although i knew something was wrong and was pushing for truth very hard to get it. She knew it had to happen some day tho. And yes even after the big PA revalation she tried to omit and fudge the storiy to not sound quite so bad and frankly i have some suspicions she is still doing it in little ways.

She showed courage to face what she has done but still shows some of the FOG stuff like blurred moral values about various marital or relationship things which annoys me to no end , because that is not the woman i love and she would not be saying these things.

part of me wants the saneness of total truth offered by a polygraph but another part of me is scared how she will react when it comes down to doing it, if maybe she will come clean before or crumble during it with some huge truth, i am not sure i can take having to force truth from her again after the last 2 years, i am expecting it of her own free will with no coercion at this point or really she hasn't woken up at all.

Vercs and Vercswife,

I like the idea of a polygraph. But, thinking about it abit, may I make a suggestion. Let it go...for NOW. Obviously money is an issue, but I have a further thought brought on by several of the people responding to this thread.

It seems to me a polygraph would be more powerful and effective for both of you IF you have really started to rebuild your marriage. My guess from reading here a long time, that Vercswife thinks she has told him everything and she may have told him everything she has been asked.

But, what I have seen time and time again is that as recovery begins both the BS and the WS start to change perspectives, especially the WS. Little things that the WS thought were insignificant are finally seen to be rather important to the recovery process. One could call them lies, and they seem to be to the BS, but what they are is realizations of the actions however small that the WS now sees once the fog has lifted and perspective on the spouse and marriage have changed.

My thinking is that Vercswife would fail any polygraph no matter HOW honest she feels she has been. Not because she is lying, but because she has NOT really processed all that she has done and all that needs to be done.

I realize I make this sound like an impossible problem. It is not. As Vercswife and Verc start to recover, start to plan and make the plan work, many details that seem insignificant will come out and be addressed. In a sense what these two need is to spend time together planning, discussing, talking, supporting and yes loving one another. Trust is actually the last thing that MUST be addressed and I don't see trust being addressed fully for a year or so.

Verc would be NUTs to trust his W. If he wants to recover he would be NUTS not to love her. Does that make sense? Vercswife, does that make sense? You don't want your H trusting you, you want him talking, checking, with you, listening to what you say, asking questions, stating his feelings, his hopes, but trust??? nope not yet.

Given all of the things I have said, I would say that the polygraph could/should be part of your plan to recover, but perhaps it should be further down the line when in fact, the nuances of the marriage, the affairs, and everyones feelings have been further discussed, addressed, and yes discovered.

Just thoughts, hope they help.

God Bless,

JL

I feel exactly the opposite. I believe that there are truths left to be told.

And you cannot begin to rebuild your M with lies out there. The truth is a foundation item IMO.



Polygraphs do not work this way. If a person believes they are telling the truth, it will register as truth. A polygraph measures the physiological responses a person has when they lie...so if a person believes they are telling the truth, there would be no response to measure.

JL...your post comes across with the caring and compassion that you display to everyone. But bottom line is, no true rebuilding or healing can begin when there are lies left to be told. A BS that is given new details later on surely suffers the humiliation of having been duped yet again. The manner in which they have come to this level of truth STRONGLY suggests that his wife begrudgingly offers truths only when she has been left with little option.

A polygraph will remove her ability to continue the charade...should it be occurring at this time. Her BH would benefit greatly from this...but so would the FWW in that light will finally be shone on the darkness that consumes their chances for a future.

Vercs... I understand your desire to have her handle things in a more proactive manner...but bottom line is, there will be no way for you to know if this is yet another half truth.

Everyone here keeps on making assumptions about your finances...are you able to some way find about $350 for the test?

MEDC,

Actually I do know something about polygraphs as one of the places I consult was considering making EVERYONE take them. They decided to limit them to only "special" needs situations. The problem I see in Vercswife taking one now, is that a well posed question and I am assuming the operator is top notch, will cause doubt and introspection in her mind. She has NOT done enough of that yet. If it causes doubt or introspection the likly response will be negative.

I agree all of the truth must come out, but some of the things that Vercs needs to know he doesn't even know yet. He won't until they really begin to address issues. Things will come out, his W will be honest or she won't. His gut will tell him, and gradually, he will form a core set of issues he really really wants to make sure of. He knows she cheated, he knows she lied, he knows she says she is sorry.

What he doesn't know are the nuances, that will come out as they start to rebuild. It will be the nuances that bother him that a polygraph will need to address to put his mind at ease.

There is a reason polygraphs are not allowed as evidence in a court room. They can be manipulated and they can give false results. I do agree with you, that it is much better support for statements of honesty, that "I am telling the truth." Yeah right. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

In any event, I do like the idea, and it is their call as the subject has now been broached. It is really their call.
All we can do is make suggestions and hope that something sticks and is of help to them.

They have to do the lifting on this one not us. I can assure you neither of them that neither of them is leading their life like I would lead it for them, in fact probably no one leads their life like I would lead it for them.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Actually there is one other thing I wanted to say. There are feelings and their are facts. We all know "feelings" change. A polygraph that is used to assague Vercs' feelings won't be much help. One that ascertain "important" facts will be. The issue in my mind is that he doesn't yet really know what the "important" facts are which will help his recovery.

yes, there is a reason. It is because there is a right against self incrimination int his country. Prosecutors and police use them all the time to rule out a suspect. But if they were allowed in court then there would be a prejudice against people that refused to take them.
That is why polygraphs are not allowed in court.

As far as your concern regarding the questions, i do not see that as being valid since a subject ALWAYS will know the questions ahead of time and can clear up any issues before the test has even begun.

And this is why the polygraph makes sense. Verc's trust has been so shattered by repeated "OK, that's all of it..." only to find out its not that at this point, he has no reason to believe that he HAS been told the whole truth.

He's been lied to so many times he's got no reason to believe her this time. There's no reason to believe that this time is any different than all those other times.

IF it is different this time...IF Verc's wife has indeed come completely clean on everything, then the polygraph is her opportunity to START rebuilding trust. And it still is just going to be a START.

If she's still not completely clean...well...the truth of that will be (hopefully) proven. And Verc can make his decisions accordingly.

I'll go with MEDC on this one...this is high enough in importance that the money should be found/scrounged/whatever to make this happen.

Well OWl, and MEDC,

You gentlemen are much easier on Vercswife than I am. There is no way that a single polygraph test would satisfy me. There is no way that during recovery more questions would not be coming up and I would expect answers and then have them verified. There is no way I would waste money on her having a polygraph test until I was certain that she would do more than lip service to recovery. THere is no way that her honestly answering the questions I would have now would satisfy me that in the future she would give the effort it took to recover the marriage.

In fact there is no way I would waste the money or time on a polygraph test on someone I was not SURE I wanted to be married to. Verc doesn't KNOW any of these things yet. But, that is just me. I was trained to live by and I have lived by a very strict honor code all of my life, and frankly her just passing a polygraph test would NOT convince me she would not lie to me in the future. I would need ALOT more than that. Hence my suggestion to wait.

John Madden (the announcer and old football coach) uses a saying in his old radio shows. I like that, and that was my reason for saying what I say about the polygraph test, I am far more detailed oriented than to have ONE test provide even a modicum of trust in this case.

Just my point of view.

God Bless,

JL

Yes my H was the driving force behind any truth coming out on my part. Hearing the discussions on the polygraph I understand how it could really help in putting certain questions and answers behind us. My H will say that he believes me but then we are still asking the same questions-there is still so much doubt. It's the way i have given him truth. I could of handled things better had i not omitted some details. I told him what i thought was most important- it was so difficult to confess to my husband about how i was behaving and how i'd betrayed him. I thought because the wer not physical that i was safe so to speak. i knew what i was doing looking back. i'm guilty.

Well, Mrs. Vercswife, YOU need to be the driving force behind truth coming out.

Are you claiming that NONE of your affairs were physical?

Your absolutely right. I should have told him about the EA's. He actually was telling me what i was doing.I did come forward with some pressure and tell my husband of my PA. So yes there were 2 EA's and the last was a PA. it's hard to be the driving force when your at your weakest. also when you've been lying to yourself telling yourself that since it wasn't physical i hadn't crossed the line- it was my H who made me see what i was doing wrong in the first 2 A's. i never even knew that you can have an EA !*@

I think you have a very good husband, and you need to start appreciating his virtues. I really have no idea why you suddenly changed, but you MUST get a plan. Start thinking of a very definite one. Counseling is good and a start. But you are going to have to do a lot of the work to turn this mess around.

I also don't know why you feel you are so weak. Believe me, after all he has been through, he is the one who should be at his weakest.

I'm not buying the sudden remorse. If you were a person who just accidentally strayed, it would have been a one time thing. I think there is a basic lack of respect for your husband. Maybe you equate goodness with weakness.

you're right i did stop appreciating him. he's a diamond of a person-that's why i married him. but there has been lots of hurt threw the years, neglect, we took each other for granted, didn't put any energy or focus on us since the kids. i am not trying to make excuses. my behaviour is inexcusable. for better for worse. i'm not sure as to why and when this change occured where i could do the things i did. i'm disgusted with myself, i feel so ashamed. i want to respect my husband. i wish things were the way they were before. i'm just hoping we can get back to that. it wasn't a one time thing because in my mind an affair needed to be physical. i was on that path and wanted to see if i could.. well after the PA i realized that even if i had feelings and was tempted to do what i did- it felt SO wrong and it wasn't something i was ok with.

yes she acted in a state of fog the whole time , telling herself oh i don't want to really do this i am just playing at it and if it really happens i wouldn't go thru with it.
She went further with the second EA and then went to PA proving me right. What she didn't say is that even after the PA when she felt disgusted and ashamed she still hung out with the guy that nioght and then contacted him again a fewm onths later and tolds him on the phone to look her up and added a sexual inuendo to the statement. Not much proof or remorse really when you think about it. And that information was the very thing she chose to hide when she first told me of the PA. 2 steps forward and one step back.

She may feel bad about it but ont once during any of these EA's or the PA did she initiate any sort of break in the contact or relationship, in each EA i stepped in and forced an ending in the PA we still have not done it.

yes i feel horribly unappreciated and passed over as second best 3 times running now. So i feel unloved, unwanted and basically a daddy and a wallet after giving 14 years of my life. And really the worst part in all this is how much my desire to help my wife was used against me. The second EA and the PA both happened during my attempts to give 150% towards my wife's life goals of starting a business. I put aside my pain over our marriage and backed her to the max as she went to school and put myself in debt to back her financially. That was why she was away at a convention related to her business less than 2 months after the second EA. I stuffed away my pasin to do the right thing for my family and my wife. I knew it was unwise but hwat else could i do.

She was on the phone to me the day of the PA probably 8 times becasue she knew how horribly depressed i was and how bad i was hurting. 4 times from dinner at 530 to supposed bed time at 11, she literally got off the phone with me spilling my heart out to her all depressed about us left at home watching the kids (as had happened in both EA's) then went to her already planned date. She got off the phone with me bearing my soul and heart to her and then went on a date to a bar with her business partner to party with 2 men. Literally minutes after talking to me. All as i gave everything i could to help her dreams. So not only do i feel betrayed as a husband and lover but as a freind for being used and abused for my desire to do the right thing by her.

How is the business doing? Can she support herself without your help?

thankfully the business partnership broke up, the business partner was one of the primary driving influences and one of the friends pushing all this. She was cheating on herown husband and even did so that very night with my wife and continues it to this day.

I am thankful the partnership broke up before the business actually started, i know full well and even my wife admits if it had become successful our marriage and family would have been destroyed. bad bad baaaad influence person.
Acted as primary driving influence in first and secoind EA and actually physically orchestrated the PA,

Giving this freind and business partner a lecture on what she was doing to her own husband and kids was one of the good parts of this whole 2 year hellish experience. probably as close as i care to ever come to actually experienceing Evil incarnate.

So, how are things going now?

good a bit foggy sometimes but she seems to be on the path.