My Wife of 20 years ran off to Mexico with another man 2 months ago. They met at the end of a holiday last winter. She was travailing fro the first time with her girlfriend. Later they developed a relationship online with this guy and started a plan to get together. 3 months ago she announced she was leaving and going to find herself for the next 3 months. Turned out to be in Mexico with this same guy. He live full time in Mexico.

We separated legally in a real hurry as she was in a real hurry to settle matters. She promised an attempt to reconcile on her return. Later she said it was a lie to get me to sign over assets? I was very bitter when she told me about the affair and the internet romance that followed? It was not a pretty picture for over a month.
I truly love this woman to my sole but we were having issues and were annoying each other all the time. We weren’t working things out however.
Both of us say that we love each other but it had gone too far in our emotional separation in the last few years?

Here is the kicker. After 1 ½ months apart and her shacked up in Mexico with the new boyfriend, she is now contacting me and we are discussing reconciliation? Or at least the possibility. This behind the back of the new boyfriend.

This has absolutely crushed me as I was just starting to move on emotionally. This tlak has kicked me so hard I can hardly function now. It is by no means a certainty about reconciling but we are planning on getting together to start talking face to face on a upcoming return home that she has to make?

Any advice? I do love this woman but the hurt of the affair and new boyfriend are going to be tough to swallow? Is it too late to start again?
Please help me?

BB,

Welcome to MB, I think you will find a wealth of information on this site concerning relationships, marriage, surviving infidelity etc. Read it, read it all very carefully.

My natural instincts would say "kick her to the curb". I suspect those are your feelings as well. Prior to coming here, that is exactly what I would have told you.

Now I will offer you a bit more measured advice. First, it is possible to recover this marriage, but it will take a few years if at all, and it will take a lot of focus, pain, and emotional energy.

Your first step is to evaluate your marriage, and your failures. Then evaluate the failures you feel you made in responding to your W's actions. Until you know yourself, your goals, your boundaries, your role, and the changes you need to make, you will not be able to productively recover your marriage or make a good decision to leave.

THis site is NOT a marriage at all costs site. It is meant to give those troubled marriages the best chance if recovery IF one or both of the spouses decide they want to.

So the first big decision is to decide if you really do want to. That leads back to the self-evaluation I just mention, but it also leads to considering her behavior.

For example you allowed your W and friend to go off on a vacation without you and knowing what you know now that was a very bad idea. She has now split the marital assests and gone to Mexico to be with lover boy.

If you decide to even try and rebuild, OM, lover boy, MUST be out of the picture completely via ANY form of communications. Until that happens you don't have a snow balls chance in Mexico of making this work. Next, you will need a plan for recovery and she should probably express a willingness to go see a pro-marriage counselor with you.

The heavy lifting is often done by the BS, IF the marriage is to recover. If you don't feel you can do it, perhaps it is best to move on, AFTER you have evaluated yourself, learned where you failed the marriage and made changes in that behavior. Why do I say that? If you don't make the changes you bring the same baggage to a new relationship and suprise second and third marriages fail...alot. Why? Nothing was learned,nothing changed, so nothing changes.

You could view any attempt to recover the marriage as working on you so that no matter how it turns out you are ready for a good relationship. Sort of a win-win situation.

So do some reading, alot of thinking, and decide on what your boundaries are and make plans to protect them even if you decide to attempt to recover this marriage.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Do you two have children and what age are they?

Thanks for the response, It is much appreciated. I have looked around this site extensively before I registered and posted this
We do have 2 kids. 24 year old step son at college in another town. He is disgusted with his mother’s actions. A 17 year old daughter living with me. My daughter is very upset and rebelling now I believe due to the situation. It has been a good bonding thing for the 2 of us however she believes here mother is never coming back to our town?

My wife left with only her personal belongings and a desire to be paid cash for all the assets. We were in very good shape financially and splitting was very easy. I have less money but it was not any real issue. She only talked of reconciliation after the agreement of how to split the assets. Once she got with the new boyfriend the story started to change and reconciliation was dead again She was obviously testing the waters with the new boyfriend.

She was uncertain; I believe what she wanted to do. Only I the last week has things changed. Personally I was sure I never wanted to see her again until she started sending me invitations to chat? I am so confused now.

We both love each other and both have said so many times. My problem is if we can recover? She is only just starting to broach the subject and is terribly confused now. She has been crying several days now about what she is done but thinks too much has happened. Is it? I wish I was certain

Your advice about disconnecting with the new boyfriend is good and that is what I am working on with here now. She is uncertain but considering this every day.

Should I put my foot down and say you must break it off now and then the years of recovery could begin? That is how I feel but I am being very careful not to push to hard this last week. My wife is very impulsive and emotional person. I have always been careful talking about emotional issues. She often would overreact to criticism as a first response. Rational later on always?

How do I talk to here next?
Thanks
BB

I know you have said you love her and are willing to consider reconciliation, but you should also consider whether your children want her back.
If they are as repulsed by her actions as you say, it may affect their relationship with you if you allow her back into your home. Once your DD is out of the house, will either her or your son WANT to come and visit you if the mother is there?

Also, if you do try reconciliation with the wife, protect yourself. After making you split the assets and running off, I would include a post-nuptual agreement as part of reconciliation. If she has another affair, she leaves only with whats in her savings account.

Good luck with your choice.

Good points. Would they want her back? Probably they would regardless because she is there mother. She calls them regularly and does care. the kids are upset but i doubt that they could cut her off? It is unlikely.

I have thought about an agreement if we reconcile. My lawyer suggested at the separation and I have thought about it several times. The lawyer suggested it because she was playing dirty during the negation. The lawyer said her behaviour pointed to an agreement if reconciliation happens. It was still being discussed at that time.

Still looking for an answer on how to confront her on leaving the boyfriend and returning to Canada and home?
BB

BB,

You don't confront her about the OM. You don't issue ultimatums. You don't tell her what to do. Is that clear?

Having said that, I will now tie back to what I said to you in the first post.

What are you boundaries? If one of them is that you will NOT compete with another man for her affection, attention and love, state that.

If one of them is that you fear for your marriage and feel that a necessary boundary is that ANY woman you are intimately involved with cannot be in contact with old lovers, state that.

If you feel that you need to protect your own mental health and sense of security, and having her or any woman that you happen to love in contact with old lovers threatens that, say so.

Are you seeing a pattern? You are NOT confronting her, you are in fact confronting your own boundaries, figure out what they are, and state them. These are YOUR boundaries, if she wants to part of your life should realize that these boundaries will not be crossed. Her choice, your boundaries.

I have a few other thoughts about your post to me.
What are you confused about? You don't want to see her. I know, you really are confused. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But, what you are very likely confused about is that you love the woman you married, not the woman that left you and is talking to you now. Your confusion stems from the fact that when you contact her in anyway you naturally start to see her as she was NOT as she is. It is why us guys often think our W's are beautiful all of their lives. We see them in our mind as they always were, and the reality is NOT important. NOW, the reality is important. And you are confused about the W you married and were married to so many years and the WW that you face now.

This leads naturally into parts of what I told you earlier. She COULD become once again the woman that you knew, loved, married and had a child with. But, she has to do it, and that means she has to change her perspective about herself, her weaknesses, her failings, and YOU. That will be her call, not your, but if she does not demonstrate these changes, not just "I'm sorry's", then there will be no rebuilding the marriage.

Now that you are in contact with her, consider doing plan A. It means exposing her to all that MIGHT help her see the light. It means trying to meet her needs and showing her there is hope. IT means protecting your boundaries. Thus you need to articulate them: what do you expect of a friend, a W, a lover, of yourself? KNOW these things and protect them. You also need to remove love busters from your vocabulary. You know how she has acted, you know she is a liar, a cheat, an adulteress. You don't need to tell her, she knows as well, and in her current mindset doesn't care. That may change.

You also need to take good care of your daughter at home. THat is MORE, MUCH MORE important than the woman living in Mexico right now. Get her to counseling, talk to her, show her the information on this site, by some of Harley's books, let her see how these things should be handled. How marriages and relationships should really be carried out. Let her learn from your experiences so that she can avoid some of them.

Oddly, this is a wonderful OPPORTUNITY for you to show your daughter how a man handles deep sorrow, deep hurt, and betrayal. IT will also show her how SHE should if the occasion ever arises.

Frankly, do plan A indirectly, but if the affair continues or contact continues, go to plan B. You have signed the separation papers, your daughter is with you. Plan B protects your love for your W and allows her more time to get it together. IF you run out of love, before the affair ends and she gets out of the fog, there is little chance the marriage will be saved. Plan B be her absence from your live means that the drain of love from your heart is slowed because she is not LB'ing you, not rubbing your face in it so to speak.


So consider your boundaries, state them, and most of all take care of your daughter. Your W's problems are her own, and she must deal with them herself.

Hope this helps, please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JL good points. Very supportive points for me rite know. I will try and follow them. Especially about my daughter.
It has been a very positive thing already for the 2 of us. Real bonding is going on in the last months. Prior to the separation we had difficulty talking for the last 2 years. The hormonal teenage girl and I were on very different planes of thought. It is definitely coming back to the relationship we had in the past and that is wonderful.
I have thought about counselling for her and myself for that matter, but have yet to act on it? To be very honest I have had difficulty getting a lot of things done as normal at home and at the office. My senior management has been supportive of my difficulties but it has been difficult to function as before to date? At home things are starting to get done but it is a slow process. Simple things have been difficult to get accomplished some days.
My Stepson at College is just as troubled and disgusted with his mother’s actions and it too as been positive to our relationship. Ours was pretty good before anyhow.

I have been pursing plan A without knowing the plan listed here. I have read it over a couple of times now and think I have a strategy going forward.
Any advice for supportive lines to use might be useful?
Thanks again
BB1961

bb,

You might want to consider some anti-depressants. What you are going through is very very tough and depression is very common. You won't need them long term, but right now you want to be on the top of your game and the anti-D's give you the best shot at that.

As for your step-son and daughter, do your best to help them, and oddly the less negative you say about your w, the better. She is their mother and their needs for her are very different than yours. Do consider some counseling, perhaps via church or something like that.

Talk to them, help them, support them, and focus on them. They need to know there is something solid in their life and that is YOU. You will NEVER regret doing this.

I am glad to hear you are doing the reading. It takes awhile for the full picture of what Harley writes about to fully sink in, but as you work it, and as things evolve, you will find it is powerful.

As for your W, give it time. This is a process not a fix, rarely are their shortcuts. So settle in for the long haul and realize that progress is measured in baby steps, which means that from time to time you will fall on your tush. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Get up and keep stepping.

No matter how this turns out, YOU will come out a better man. If you do focus on the kids, THEY will come out to be better adults. Teach them by example, how a man with boundaries, morals, values, takes the time to really assess the behavior of someone that has failed them. You won't regret that either.

Must go, but hang in there and have faith in yourself and your kids, they sound like terrific kids.

God Bless,

JL

Actually I do have anti depressants. It helps once in a while but it is hard to function on work days however. Both types I have tried leave me groggy and difficult for me to handle work. I am a manger in a very fast paced factory that has gone through major changes lately. I have got be on the ball for work. The problem is that if I take one in the evening I can barely get moving in the mornings. They do help on rough days though.
I found out that some of the reason my wife has been talking again. She is upset about the kids. Turns out both have been upset at her about here possibility of staying permanently in Mexico with the boyfriend? I am not questioning the kids; she volunteered that info today in a chat session. My wife is conflicted because of the kid’s reactions. It could take years to get over this mess even if she came home now and tried to reconcile. I am being supportive now just for the sake of the kids but I am deeply troubled by her behavior.
Funny thing just came to mind this week. My wife’s mother did the same thing to her family and was out of the picture for many years leaving her dad to do everything. The kids were a little younger 10 to 14 I believe? None of them talk to there Mom now? Coincidence?

Both kids aren't dealing with this well. Both feel abandoned and believe she has gone crazy or something. I can only be there for them and hope there mom drops Mexico and the boyfriend down there and gets her ****** together. I am trying hard not to say anything negative to them about there Mom. Just being there for them is my goal.

What I mess I am in?????????

BB,

Actually YOU are not in the mess. Your W is. You have a 17 year old daughter to rear, and I am sure you will do a good job. Keep talking with her, get her counseling, and really be the father she needs right now. Your step-son, needs less care, but just the same he needs YOUR support. Have him come home when he can, call him and make sure he is doing well, make sure he knows he can call you.

AND as for you, move on with your life. Right now you have no choices to make, you think you might in the future, but right now, you don't. She is gone and she may or may not come back. You have to decide if you want to wait, and if so for how long. But, rest assured "This to shall pass". You have a good job, your health is good. The separation agreement is signed, you are not in a mess BB. You just aren't sure what your path is. That will become obvious in the next few months.

I have noticed that in my life when really big decisions need to be made, that really there isn't a decision, the data is always clear which is the best choice. Now I could go against the path revealed, but it has always proven that by going in the obvious direction, that was the right decision.

You are in the collecting data phase right now. Collect it, examine it and you will KNOW what the right decision really is. Give it time. You are going to survive this. Your relationships with your kids WILL become closer. Your understanding of yourself, your goals, your bouandaries, your morals, will increase as you examine where you really stand on many things. In the end you WILL survive and prosper.

Your W??? IT is unlikely that she will come out of this whole. Some of the damage may be repaired, but she lost more than she realized.

I am not saying the latter with any glee. I am simply pointing out that meeting your commitments and vows has rewards that violating them does not.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JL
Hate to admit it…. I had a good cry after I read your reply.
You’re so right, I need to move on and support my children. They are forever, my wife is not obviously. Maybe she may come back into my life again? Hard to say?
Yesterdays chat with her was a difficult one for me. She wanted to slam me for her perspective of our separation. Very different than mine. She harped on the fact I consulted my closest friends and my parents about the separation. She said I was a big mouth getting them involved. I needed someone to talk to about this and they were there for me. She has told nobody, not her family (brothers and sisters only) or her friends. She said only that she was leaving to find herself for a few months.

I just realized late last night how she could have done such a thing without at least talking to friends and family during this all. Most people like to bounce ideas off people they are close to when problems exist. She had been very upset that I talked about this situation with anyone. This had bothered me that she was so mad about my consulting others. She had told nobody of course. Why it took me so long to realize how she could tell nobody is bizarre? She did have a confidant.
The new boyfriend was here sounding board!!!!!!!!

You are right JL she is the one in a mess. She abandoned her family and all her friends for this guy. She is the one at the loss. I have good friends and a supportive family, good job, morals and people like me. I am not too bad off am I.

I do Love this women and probably will till the day I die. I need to be happy with my life and when and if she comes to a realization of what she lost. It will be her call. I am I transition and not looking for a relationship. If she comes to a decision after I meet someone it would be over forever? I will still have my family and my happiness with no regrets
Thank you JL, you have been big help with all you resonses
BB

should i forget about her forever? single choice
	Keep up plan A
	forget she ever existed
Votes accepted starting: 09/03/07 10:46 AM
View Results

BB,

My bad, as the kids would say. I thought you had exposed this affair to everyone. Part of plan A is to expose the affair, and that means HER family needs to know. She will be mad, she will be spitting nails she will be so mad, but affairs don't do well in the light of day, when secrecy has been stripped away.

Now exposure needs to be done with the idea of rebuilding the marriage and seeking help in convincing her to end the affair. It is part of ending the affair. Let me make a recommendation to you. You NEED to expose this affair to her family, that is part of plan A, and it is painful, but very potent. However, given the age of your children, I would suggest that you talk with them about this.

Now here is the problem exposure needs to occur before she can spin this. So if you decide to discuss the plan to expose and you explain to your kids the reason for the exposure, you need them to NOT tell your W what is about to happen.

I don't want you to put your children in the middle, but I do think they can learn something. Because when you expose you ask for their HELP in trying to convince your W to end the affair. Given her family history, they might do that for their grandchildren and you.

She is still in the fog BB, and as such you can expect to hear some really bizarre things come out of her mouth. Before you know it will be your FAULT <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> that she had your step son. Yup, makes no sense but neither will alot of what she has said.

I strongly urge you to expose to her family and seek their help. Please consider it, and realize this IS part of plan A, and it is an approach strongly recommended by an international authority on marriage and rebuilding marriages.

Your family knows, your kids know, her family needs to know. If for no other reason so they can help her IF she ends the affair and your marriage does not work out. She will need someone on her side.

Think about it and discuss it.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Read the plan A part again, so that you understand the goal here. IF you want this marriage or a chance at rebuilding this marriage, the affair MUST end first. Exposure is about ending the affair and asking for help in rebuilding if it comes to that.

Hi JL
I was a little shocked to see your comment about exposing the affair to her family. I didn’t read that in the plan. I looked for it too. There are plenty of opinions either way on that subject posted, but nothing I could find in the plan?
The other dilemma, assuming I would consider this exposure is that her family is almost non existent.
Her Father (a good man) died in an accident 15 years ago.

Her mother who I mention in a previous post, abandoned the family when the kids were young. She has had little to do with her for the last 30 years. No contact at all for the last 10 years. She is way out of the picture.

2 Brothers, One has told me flat out he doesn’t want to hear a word about it but is concerned and does worry and check up on me. The other brother I have not talked to, He may listen and be helpful? Hard to say?

She has 2 sisters
Both sisters had severe drug problems in the past and interfered with our family in the past. The Boys and my wife were pretty normal considering there problems. The 2 other girls were another story.
Either might listen to me if I could find them? One has no contact with my wife for years but I could find her if I put some effort into it?
The other sister does contact my wife these days but I have lost track of her? She is kind of transient.

Friends….Well very few.
My wife has been rather strange the last 2 year, even before the affair. She has stopped contacting her friends almost altogether. She spent most of her time in the bedroom sleeping or brooding. It was a major reason for our problems. Obviously depressed and was medicated and seeing her Doctor regularly. Did little good now it appears.
Her best friends all went by the wayside, all except one. The girl she went to Mexico with in January. They have been very close for 15 years. Odd thing happened down there. They fought constantly and 6 days in they parted company NEVER to talk again. Ii heard the story and blamed my wife. Imagine how popular I was with that comment?
She did start with a new friend last year. New girlfriend of my best friend. She however knows nothing of her actions with the boyfriend?

The other thing to note is that she will fly home to take care of some business next week. Not sure what the business is and I haven’t asked?

Help more confused than ever.
BB

One other thing to mention. She has threatened me many times that she would expose me to my family and my coworkers if I uttered a word about the Affair and her new location.
I believe her 100%
I have never done anything illegal but have used Porn as a substitute during our problems. It was easier. I am a very sexual individual and always have been. I did get carried away with it and she found it on my computer.
I feel awful about it. I am terrified and certain she would do her best to tell everyone that she could about it. I am not really worried about my family. Just the kids, friends and my professional reputation with my employees?
BB

bb:


From prior posts by others about changes in their spouse's behavior long before d-day, I would strongly suspect that the affair started 2 years ago. Or, if not this affair, then there may have been another one.


She is threatening you! Defuse this by exposing your Porn use 2 your family and coworkers yourself. Do this at the same time you expose her affair.

Telling the truth is NEVER wrong. Keeping secrets from the ones you promised 2 love ALWAYS is.

As for a plan:
I would suggest you call one of the Harleys for marriage coaching. They will know what 2 do 2 encourage your W 2 call them herself if she wants 2 save your marriage.

It isn't me, but if it were in a si2ation like this one, I'd let her calls go 2 voicemail and respond only when I wanted 2. You need 2 keep yourself from being hurt by simply hearing from her. You also need 2 remove her "fix" by calling you while she's still with her OM. Let HIM meet ALL her needs. He won't like doing that for very long. And only when she gets herself away from the OM and proves 2 your satisfaction (and the Harleys) that she's done so, would I consider trying recovery with her.

But that's me.

-ol' 2long

BB,

You shouldn't be shocked. Dr. Harley strongly suggests you expose to everyone who you think might help, even take out a newspaper ad if necessary. Read his articles on exposure.

However, having said what I have, IF you feel that exposure to her family will be of little use, and it seems from what you have said that it wouldn't help much, then don't bother.

I am concerned as is 2L that she has been acting strangely for 2 years. It could suggest emotional issues, Midlife crisis, menopause, some other medical situation, OR it could suggest that this is NOT her first affair. Hard to say, but perhaps you might want to check old phone records or credit card records to see if something pops up.

In some ways it makes little difference in others it might solidify your choices concerning fighting for this marriage. I cannot tell you on that one.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

Hello
Been a troubled 2 days. Thinking of saying the ****** with this and go to plan B?
She has been very angry in the last 2 days in our chats. Wants to tell me off. Told me tonight she was actually mad at our son because he has completely disowned her. He is mad over the announcement that she would like to stay in Mexico possibly forever. She told the kids this few weeks ago. Our son has completely stopped talking to her and she is very upset. She was venting at me and apologised for that today.
The Boyfriend is still there through all this. I feel he is coaching her feelings on this?

I was ready to tell her off tonight until she told me in an IM chat what the issue was. Still I am very discouraged. She also said that she had made up her mind at that instead of driving home as she had once promised. She will now fly home, take care of her business and return to the boyfriend.

2 years of strange behaviour? she is or was under the doctors care for a chemical imbalance. The meds caused lows and was a\n issue. She also started on menopause at tat same time. Possible causes? Boyfriend? I doubt it. She went nowhere for 2 years but our bedroom and work? Could even get her out to visit our friends except rarely?


Plan A continue or Plan B? Move on and forget the Adulteress?
I will avoid this call for a few more days. Still not sure what way to go?
BB

BB:

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. She calls 2 yell at you for the consequences she's facing for her asinine choices?

DON'T ANSWER THE PHONE.

If you can trust her 2 not clean you out when/if she flies up 2 get more of her [censored] from the house, then be away when she comes by and only come home after you know she's back with her OM (he's NOT a "boyfriend"! STOP calling him that! He's a co-conspirator in the destruction of your marriage!). If you can't trust her, then have one of your kids or a third party you CAN trust be there when she's around.

Whatever you do, do NOT engage her in these fruitless blame-shifting vents of hers. Let her face the consequences of her selfish choices ALONE.

-ol' 2long

BB,

Just read your thread. I'm sorry you find yourself needing advice on this forum, but welcome.

You know she is not trustworthy at this point. Why is her reason for return or "business" unknown to you?

Is it possible her visit is to clean out additional assets? That being said... If you have not already done so, change the locks, and protect any/all of your joint assets.

It was her decision to move away. Would you be "welcome" to walk into the home in Mexico? Why should she have that luxury toward the home she abandoned?

Don't wait for the next bomb to drop before building a shelter. Protect yourself, and stay strong for your family!

-JKT

Thanks for the responses. Been sole searching.
I decided to go to plan B. wrote a letter to my EX and told her under what terms we could discuss Reconciliation and not to contact me till she was ready to do so. The Truth was that the daily IM Chats were killing me emotionally. She sent me an email being very considerate of my feelings and promising to not bother me unless it was important or about the Kids. The ball is her court. I will protect my Kids and my Emotions in the mean time.
Still Love her and want her back.
If she comes back we can talk. Until then I have setup an appointment this week to get counselling. Hopefully this will help?
My best Friend is flying in a couple weeks to help. He is worried about the situation. My Family lives 3000 miles form here and my best friend moved away 8 years ago. I do have some close friends here too but it’s not the same. I really need the support. Counselling and friends should help.
bb