<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You are doin' good if you are able to show the kind of appreciation you describe. Congratulations. This EA can be a dark gift for your M and R.

The reason to figure out the "why" is so that it doesn't happen again. At the very least, he must develop a plan to be sure it never happens again.

I would call the Harleys.

Thank you.

I'll see what we can do about calling the Harleys. Are you suggesting I do that or him or us?

I'm not sure which one should talk to the Harley's but since no one else answered you--It seems that usually they want to talk to the spouse that got involved in the inappropriate relationship. Usually it seems that it is the betrayed spouse that calls them. So feel free to call them and go with what they suggest.

I would have him call. But they may want to hear some input from you too. Give it a try. Ask for a recovery plan.

Thanks I'll see what I can do.

Right now the weekend is starting off not so good. Back to same old routine of ignoring me but some how that's my fault. UGH!

Anyone got a good hidaway spot????? Preferably somewhere there's sand and drinks with little umbrellas?

How long has he been ignoring you?

I would go do something fun by myself.

Ok just a little rant here please...
Believer,
Most all week more of an indifference than out right ignore. I don't think this is an indicator of anything more than falling back into bad marriage habits. As I have been vigilant in my snooping. I know he's tired. He leaves for work at 4:30 AM and gets back home about 5:45PM working outside all day 4 days a week. But geezzz it really doesn't take much to at least be cordial. He'll tell me about his day, but never asks me about mine. Self centered, thoughtless type stuff. Now yesterday we were together all afternoon, becasue our youngest daughter is getting married in a month, so there were tux fittings, etc yesterday. 45 min. trip each way, NO conversation, nada, zilch. I asked him why he was so chatty, he tells me just concentrating on the road. Well ok, get to where we had to go, still just quiet. Ride home again I say why are you so quiet, I'm just really tired. Ok, I can understand no problem. Get home I go about my routine stuff...laundry, straightening stuff , etc. He says well I'm going to bed since YOU DON'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH ME. I coulda just choked him.

I told him that was unfair, he said he was tired, and I was leaving him alone to rest, not asking anything of him, nothing and further more he had done the same to me all day but I had just accepted his reasons. He was a bit surprised. I was a bit surprised! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So he goes off to bed, I went back in there to tell him, that hurt my feelings because I felt I was letting him rest (for lack of better word) and he was blaming me. And that was the way it USE to be and wasn't going to be like that anymore. He agreed he said he was tired but seemed to him I went out of my way to avoid sitting with him. Well duhhhhhh hard to do the laundry and dishes in the living room. I really think what he was trying to tell me he could see I was disappointed by no attention, and truthfuly I was. However I just went on with things that needed to be done. It just really ticks me that he was trying to blame me for this.

We'll see what today brings.

And just another note of thanks to those that read my rantings and those that respond, THANK you so much. After reading so many of the posts on this site it is so sad that so many people have difficulties in their marriage. It does make me some what embarrassed to even post here. His EA was devastating to me but there are so many that have horrible situations. I appreciate your time and suggestions.

Hi mvg,

I am more than happy to listen to any ranting. Done plenty of it myself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Remember, you guys are on a roller coaster!! ups and downs are going to happen. The fact that you told him your feelings were hurt is great. keep it up!!

and then you said "he agreed", that is great!! he then when on to share his feelings. now i know you don't agree that he should be feeling like you were avoiding him but you have to listen and accept his feelings whether you understand them or not. ok?

i understand it sounds like he is trying to blame you, try not to worry about blame. and YES, i know what I just said is REALLY REALLY hard to do.

find the positive. he shared with you, he didnt just grunt. thank him for sharing and today find time to just sit with him.

my DH is very similiar, he is so quiet, he does not need conversation. i get bored just sitting on the couch watching him watch tv, i don't like much that is ever on the tv, so i do as you do, laundry, cleaning, bill, there is always so much to be done, right??

one time my DH said same as you, i avoid him, i'm always keeping myself so busy. i'm thinking to myself, you are just sitting there watching tv, how can it matter to you if i'm being a lump next to you or if i'm somewhere else in the house being PRODUCTIVE??? how can being productive be bad???

well, think of it this way, he has a EN that you just sit with him. just like my DH does. So i've been trying to do that more. ya know, golf tournaments can almost be exciting!!! "ohhhh, that just bearly missed, darn!" LOL

don't wait to see what happens today, just have a good day!!

You asked him why he was so chatty. He said he was tired and concentrating on the road. Sounds like there was silence after that--both to and from the fittings. That's the time for you to implement your plan! Make a decision about how you want to set the tone. If you were silent--he could read that any way that he tends to read your silence. You have a number of response choices: 'okay, rest now so we can chat together while we finish house chores when we get home.' Or, 'gee, I thought conversation while we drive might help keep you awake and I have missed talking to you all week.' Were you really "okay" for him leaving you alone or were you "disappointed"?

When you came into the house, did you remain silent, or did you tell him that you were going to go ahead and finish dishes and continue laundry chores. Was there any joint agreement to how the evening was going to be spent? He is not going to take the lead in joint agreement so you have to take the lead. What did you want to have happen when you came back into the house? You need to talk to him.

When you asked him 'why he was so chatty' and he responded he was just concentrating on the road. Did you not talk after that? I think you put him on the defensive a little with the 'chatty' remark and he said the first thing that came into his head to defend himself. The focus was on his behavior--did you tell him anything about how you were reacting to his behavior? I would suggest an "I" message to him at that point. something like "oh, good, I'm glad it's only that you are concentrating, I was starting to feel like you did not like being here with me. I thought this might be a fun time for you and me alone together."

When he tells you all about his day, but he does not ask you about yours, what do you tell him about how you feel about that?

I know it does not seem fair that you have to be the one to give him hand over hand prompts about how to behave. And I'll bet you have done lots of things to try to get him to respond to you and by now you are tired of the dance.

Tell me more about how the actual set of communication behaviors went between the two of you. Unfortunately, all I can do is give you more suggestions on how you could change your communication behavior so that the dance between the two of you changes.

One of the things that really came home to me after my H's EA was the fact that there were many things that I THOUGHT about--that ran through my mind in my private world that I did not TELL him. Somehow, I think I assumed that he was aware of my private thoughts. Maybe it is from being together for thirty-some years, but I don't think so. I was truly reminded and became more aware that he does not know my private thoughts, I have to tell them to him. And I have to tell him by using "I" messages, telling him how I feel or how I am reacting, taking ownership of me.

Others on this board are more eloquent and articulate than am on this subject. Maybe others like Schoolbus will chime in.

I really did thank him for "sharing" his feelings with me. (good right?) however I also told him I wasn't going take the blame.(probably not so good?) My H has a tendancy to turn things around a bit and I was just fed up with the whole situation Friday. I feel like I'm walking on glass..I TRY not to pressure him, I am a good and thoughtful wife to him and trying to be a better one. He is making progress and I have complimented him on how wonderful I think his progress is.

He is a procrastinator. We agreed to MB as it seemed the most logical and direct method for recovering/improving our M. It has been 2 weeks since we started do the EN's survey.
He hasn't gotten around to starting it good/finishing it. He's been tired, he's been busy reading his hunting mags, his been busy picking his nose. I asked him if he was finished because he had moved his survey to my desk/work space. oh nah I'll get to it one day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

As for Friday and his lack of conversation, my chatty comment really has been a standing joke between us for years so I don't think he was defensive about that, I truly believe he was tired. He wasn't concentrating on the road either, it's a very easy laid back drive, no traffic. He has a tendancy to withdraw from me when he doesn't want to address issues, to avoid conflict, and sorta the opposite of angry outburts (clams up). He didn't like the fact that I turned his comments "you won't have anything to do with me" back on him. I would normally just take the hit and be hurt. Well I was hurt but NOT because I felt bad I was hurt this is a BAD HABIT he has. I wasn't ignoring him, I was disappointed I wasn't huffing and puffing, slamming things, I just was doing "busy" work. Well enough rant...I DID NOT FOLLOW MB! I screwed up ..again unfortunately. My patience is just stretched..how do you do it? I seem to be ok during the work week, but by the weekend my expectation level and anxiety level are so high I seem to sabotage (sp?) the effort.

Thanks, it might be safe to come out of hiding now! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Lake,

I did try saying that too. and Yes I was disappointed but I understood. Neither of us had slept well the night before.

I don't think I was silent when we got home, just went about doing what needed doing. However there wasn't much if any conversation as we were in different rooms for the most part. *I think he could tell I was disappointed about being ignored, and he didn't do that intentionally, but he wasn't about to apologize for it either. HE WAS TIRED! Darn it all and so to make himself NOT the "bad" guy he shifted the problem to me. BECAUSE I WOULDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIM yada yada yada.

I am NOT going to be the doormat any longer. I allowed it I took blame,responsibility, etc. that weren't mine and allowed not only H but DD's to to be disrespectful, take advantage, had guilt trips... SO how do keep myself in line with MB but not be the doormat?

Our conversation style...I'm direct, can go on and on and on also (ok, maybe a tad much). If it is an issue between us, he's a shuffle the feet, avoid, avoid, avoid, drink to much then spill your guts. If it's just a normal run of the mill conversation, getting him to give his opinion can be like pulling teeth.

Deep breath! Thanks for another rant...and I haven't even gotten to the sh$t hitting the fan last night. I haven't totally processed the whole thing, still thinking on that.

Thank you! Is it normal to start feeling like YOU are the one that is wacko?

I know that feeling about expectation by the weekend and anxiety level. But I still don't have a good handle on what happened at what point in time. The old he said, she said of these interactions you had.

I suggest that when you came home, you had a choice: to sit down with him and engage in conversation in the relaxed setting of your home and let the dishes and laundry go for the evening, or to go do the dishes and laundry. If you were going to do the dishes and laundry, it would be a good idea to model joint agreement by telling him that you did not feel that you could let laundry and dishes go untended and so you were going to take care of them rather than sitting down with him. Or you could have said, honey, would you help me with the dishes and laundry so that afterwards, we could both sit down together and (insert whatever you would want to do with him here.)

It does not sound like you had a conversation when you got home about how time was going to be spent--sounds like you did what you did and he did what he did.

What would you like to do with him on the weekend? Sounds like he is not going to be the one to make a plan for you and him for the weekend. And then, do you get tense, anticipating something good happening on the weekend and then get let down because nothing happens?

If the two of you are getting ready for dd's wedding, it is probably hectic in general and dd has the center stage right now. Are you saying that you feel taken advantage of by dd as well? Are you the housekeeper for them all?

I know I sound critical of you and I really don't mean to sound critical of you. It's just that you are the only one in the family that is here on this forum looking for help with the M. Since you are the one willing to make the changes, you are the one that I am suggesting changes to be made <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Remember, setting your boundaries and maintaining boundaries is not a love buster. Love busters are disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts, independent behavior, dishonesty, selfish demands, annoying habits. If things are going on in your household that you feel violate your boundaries, you have a reponsibility to maintain your boundaries. That is not a disrespectful thing to do as long as you don't lovebust in maintaining boundaries.

Hope your day improves and you can enjoy yourself a little and enjoy your H a little <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

You are right about the expectations..I will start to ask questions and be proactive.

As far as our "angry outburts" nope, I didn't tell him anything when we came home, he was tired so I did my own work. He admitted to me yesterday he didn't like me "ignoring" him and that's what made he upset. I told him welcome to the club. I wasn't intentionally ignoring you but I didn't go out of my way to engage you either. I don't care for it either. That he could understand a little.

Lake a little history:
3 years ago August our oldest Daughter moved back home, there was an ugly divorce, she had little money, trying to finish college and she went down the alcohol road so we finally convinced her to come home and heal. At the same time H hurts his back at work. (this is still an ongoing pain for him). Oct of same year youngest daughter is told by her fiance, leave he doesn't want her...she is pregnant due in Dec. so she comes home. Oh by then we find our Oldest is also pregnant. Gbabyboy born dec., Gbabygirl born April. May H starts with chest pains, we go from doc to doc to find out FINALLY he has some heart disaase, runs on both sides of his family. June youngest and GS move out on their own. H has been going to pain doc for almost year now trying to get his pain undercontrol. I had female surgery last Oct, and just this June day after youngest daughter had the twins, oldest moves out with gdaughter. THen end of July find out about the EA.

So there has been ALOT of stress all around. And I know that all in my family count on me as the "fixer", "healer",
supermom..otherwise translated, if you wait long enough she'll get fed up and just do it! I know NOT the way it should of been, I KNOW I allowed it. And I am in the process of unattaching each of them from sucking the life out of me. In trying to love them so much, I went to the extreme.
My dd's wedding is not only hectic but stressed. We are happy she is getting married (hey they just had twins in June) so that's great. But she is expecting alot financial and personally from us. We have set a small budget, there has to be assistance from them, etc. She's become more self centered and with a toddler and twins now she just doesn't have time for much of anything.(sacarasticly said) True but it's NOT my wedding. So H & I are both a bit fed up with her attitude.

I do NOT consider what you said critical. However IF that's what I need a critical assessment PLEASE thunk me on the head and give it to me.

H & I had a horrible horrible battle of words Saturday, however in all that there were somethings that came to light that we are now working on. Some things I thought had long ago been settled but apparently are still unresolved or not resolved to his satisfacation. And I felt horrible about having "BAD BAD ANGRY OUTBURsT" and was getting ready to apologize, he apologized first. That's a positive, heck that might even be a first! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm working on my boundaries and thanks for reminding me those aren't LB unless done wrong.

Dumb question...is there anywhere on the site that better explains boundaries and how to go about assessing and setting them?


Lake THANK YOU so much. I appreciate your taking your time and offering your insights.

Hi mvg,
This is a very busy time of year for me so I haven't found anything specific to boundaries within a marriage other than the info regarding ongoing infidelity. Thankfully, you are not dealing with that. I suggest you take a look at the main articles and focus on Policy of Joint Agreement, Radical Honesty, and the article about being a good parent involves the H and W taking care of each other== I forget the title of it but you should recognize it when you see it.

Three boys back in school--preparing for early decision for the oldest for college for next school year, Dealing with Special Education for our middle who is now in 9th grade, first year of high school and increased expectations along with an entire change in teachers and aides, and youngest who went through puberty in about 6 months and is finally coming around to being not oppositional. With the oldest, it feels like the next 2 months is the culmenation of our years of work with him--applying to colleges that are just below "ivy league". It feels like I am doing the big send-off....passing on the baton to....I will find out who in the next two months. Exciting and eventful days.

The EA really brought my H and I together and as a result of spending the 15 hours a week focussing on our M, we are ready for our oldest to leave the nest. My H and I have a life with each other now. We will miss our oldest when he leaves, but we will continue to have each other. This is key, that we have a world and a life together without the children.

Lake I thank you for looking. I totally understand about busy time of year, and also sending kids off to college. I wish you well with all that you have going on.

I wanted to tell you I will keep updating here, and I do appreciate your advice and suggestions. I hope as you have time you will take a look. Thank you for your support from the beginning.

H&I are working together, some backslides but recognizing sooner than later that opps that wasn't good...on both sides! We are continuing (a tad slower than I'd like) with MB.

I hope to hear from you from time to time as you have time. This has been an extremely hard time for me. NEVER saw it coming. And I am grateful, oh so grateful that it never became a PA. Still very hurtful tho.

Take care!

It does sound like the two of you are doing good. If you are both able to recognize love busters and the like and you can both acknowledge it to each other, that is great. How is it going with policy of joint agreement with all the decisions you are making relative to your adult daughters?

Keep the faith!

We're still figuring out the POJA as we go, doing well, but still we are catching ourselves making independent decisions. We've agreed in regards to daughters, I have a tendancy to overcompensate and he is more non chalant(sp?) so we're trying to watch each other so that we "balance" more and hopefully will be good for them and us...or at least us! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We are going to the lovely VA mountains this weekend to attend a picnic of an organization H belongs to. We're both looking forward to it. I love this "honeymoon" stage right now, just gotta keep it going.

I hope things are going well for you. I hope to catch up with you again as time allows. Thanks Lake!

Your planned weekend sounds great. It is especially nice that it is an organization that he is involed in. Have a great weekend. Both of you have earned it and deserve it.

Thanks, have a good one too!