I orginally posted my story on the just found out forum as internet infidility?

We are making small steps forward, which I'm so grateful for, but....... I'm starting with what I'm assuming are anxiety attacks. Heart pounding, head hurting, trouble breathing, nerves shot (what's left). Are these normal? Is it normal for "triggers" just to put you back to D-day? HOW do you get past these?

I know last night H was suppose to start with the MB material, but just didn't get to it was VERY disappointing to me, and the anxiety attack started. I said nothing to him, just watched and waited. I understand from his view point this is going to rehash everything again, but I rehash everything EVERYDAY. I read Joseph's letter and that really hit the mark with me, and I have left that for him with the other MB material. I just feel if we could address my still lingering questions that THEN hopefully I will stop having to wonder and truly be ready for recovery because right now I guess I'm not, I'm waiting to see what he's going to do. I'm trying to meet this EN's while still feeling like I'm in limbo.

H is a procrastinator (sp?) unless it's something that's for him or he wants. I'm a get it done, gotta problem lets start to fix it, I work on trying to prevent problems. H says my expectations are too high for others even tho he admits that I don't expect more from anyone then I give or am willing to do myself.

Triggers are driving me NUTS! HOW do you handle them?????

Geezzz I hope this post doesn't sound as crazy as I feel right now! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for letting me vent.

mvb,

I used to get terrible anxiety attacks that started after the deaths of my parents.

I learned breathing exercises that reduced and finally eliminated them. It's a form of meditation that calms you and helps to bring your mind to a state of rest, or emptiness.

Look down at your nose and concentrate on your breathing. Close your mouth lightly with your lips parted slightly and the tip of your tongue on the roof of your mouth behind your top teeth.

Inhale/exhale slowly through your nose. In/out slowly and deeply. Concentrating only on your breathing and allowing your mind to rest.

If thoughts occur don't fight them, but continue to concentrate on your breathing.

It really helped me. I got them in business meetings and heavy traffic... and still sometimes get them if I am dealing with heights (but mostly avoid heights now).

All problems that only started after the trauma of my parents deaths. So the trauma of the affair is probably what has brought yours about.

weaver, won't that give her cross eyes???

mvb, lately, when i have anxiety attacks, i go jump off a building. more of my body is in a cast at this point then not.

ok, ok, i'm kidding. i've been told recently to relax more.

relax=joke

you are new here, i hope this is not in bad taste to be posting like this.

my intent was to give you a laugh.

you are not crazy.

but do listen to weaver's suggestion and NOT mine.

Weeell, yes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> But that is better than running screaming down the street. And as long as no one smacks you on the back, they won't stick that way.

Why would posting to a newbie be in bad taste? I don't get what is going on around this joint, and I don't want to get it, at least not today.

For today, I choose to live in lala land, and in lala land I will stay.

oh man y'all are cracking me up! Thanks!

mvg, JL posted something the other day about this very thing. About meeting the WS E/N's and changing the dynamics in early recovery.

I have a little work to do right now, but soon after I will find that for you and put it here, because I think it might really pertain to where you are right now in recovery.

Hope this helps mvg. It is taken off of another posters thread titled "whose fault is it anyway" (worth a read), by JL.

Thanks for posting...I'm not so sure I LIKE that letter! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> WH & I talked a great deal last night after he started reading the MB material. He liked the logical methodology and agreed lets try this. We started with Radical Honesty...both of agreeing that IS the only way to go, common sense he says! OK...good! So I asked my questions, didn't go so well. I got "I don't know", "I don't recall", "I didn't do that". And I broke the rules....I wasn't a raging wife, but I did push the issue because I don't think his responses are honest. Either he hasn't done some deep soul searching, I'm an idiot, he's an idiot or he thinks I'll just accept that and move on (Which I might have to), but I'm not ready to accept that yet. He's an intelligent man, these are in my opinion "teenager avoidance" techniques. Am I off base with expecting more then "I don't know"?????

I'm thinking of changing my name to crazywoman!

Not remembering, and not knowing is very common for WS's.

Also, it doesn't help for you to get angry when he attempts to answer your questions.

Are you certain she didn't hook up with him somewhere?

My FWH was very similar, he would say, "I don't know", or "I don't remember" about many things. This made me more worried because at that point, I had no idea how far the A had gone. It was totally out of the realm of possibility to me that he would be secretive about OW and have an EA. Therefore, was it more than an EA?, How much time did they spend together? What were his intentions? Was he planning on seeing her more? Did he see her more? What was he thinking when ... and when..... and when.....?

In retrospect, I understand that he was just taking action with her without thought to my feelings or any repercussions. He had no idea of how things would end, how he would ever make it right, etc. He was just too wrapped up in the fact that interaction with her was making him feel good, so he just continued the interaction. Much of the interaction he did have a hard time recalling as it was just fog babble, created with the intent of making her feel good so that she would interact back with him with more blah, blah blah that would make him feel good. None of it had very much to do with any reality.

So his responses to you are in part really that he does not remember and part that he does not want to tell you all because you will be upset and give him your contempt.

believer, I'm not a 100% sure they never hooked up, I don't think so that was on the horizen. If you read my beginning post under just found out...she wanted to hunt with the guys here. She had sent her $$ so I believe this would have turned into a PA. H doesn't see it that way, but hey he didn't think it was wrong till it was pointed out to him, that describing to OW what he wanted to do with her sexually, was wrong. So I'm not quite believing him about no PA.

I'm NOT angry of what he tells me (I think) it's just if he would tell me the truth. I think he's avoiding the truth. I didn't holler or scream nothing like that but I did tell him I didn't think he'd done soul searching to answer me honestly.

Lake, your situation and mine do sound very similar.
QUOTE "So his responses to you are in part really that he does not remember and part that he does not want to tell you all because you will be upset and give him your contempt."

So what do I do?

I do think it was hard for my H to state the "truth" because he was not certain what the "truth" was. He was just "acting" as in "taking action" or "making action". He was doing it for the sheer enjoyment of the little shot of good feeling that he got from it. He was being careful not to go too far in his compliments to her.

For example, when she said 'oh there I go again, rambling on and on to you', he responded that he 'was always captivated by your ramblings... blah, blah, blah... disappointed when you stop rambling...blah...blah...Funny but Lake and other family memebers claim I drift and don't listen to their conversations.'

Now can he tell me why he said that?-no. Did he remember that he said it?--no, not until I pointed it out to him in his email to her.

So there is not a lot of meaning to what he said, he was just reading what she wrote to him and looking for a way to be a flirty wise-guy in his response to her. He wanted to make her feel good by what he said to her, and he wanted to continue the conversation and encourage her to communicate back to him. He was also aware that he had to keep it all a secret from me.

What is the "truth" in all that?

What do you do?--Has he completly stopped contact with OW? If the answer to that is yes, then you keep going forward with building your marriage. Try not to get too p(ssy when he tries to tell you about what he was doing in the EA. Try to listen to him and learn from what he says to you. What he says to you can give you clues and a lot of information about how you can interact with him and meet his needs.

Try to let him talk to you. Allow a long pause in the conversation (School Bus says to count to 20 or so silently to encourage him to tell you more.) In fact, have you read "disgusted wife's" thread? She came on here about the time you did and her situation is a little similar but she seems to be dealing with a more difficult situation. She is getting some good advise from Schoolbus and others about how to talk to her WH. Take a look at her thread.

There isn't really any such thing IMHO as 'believing' or 'not believing' there would have been a PA in individual situations. There either was a PA or there was not a PA. I think it is safe to say that these EAs are a slippery slope and that they eventually frequently end up as PAs. I think it is a waste of time to dwell on whether or not in your individual case whether or not there would have been a PA.

More important is what were the weaknesses in your H's boundaries that led him to talk to OW and keep secrets from you. What are the weaknesses in the M and the way emotional needs are met for both of you. What are the love busters for each of you?

I know, it's easy for me to say that now. After all, I spend months looking for the "truth" to the EA. Did I find it? Sort of. We found the weakness in the boundaries and we are still working on meeting each others emotional needs and avoiding love busters.

To the best of my snooping abilities there is NC with OW.

I'm not getting p(ssy when he tells me about the EA, he tells me NOTHING. He didn't think it was wrong then. He$$ he didn't think it was wrong till I caught him. THAT'S what scares me. I don't interrupt him, I try to encourage honesty. He was just bs'ing. Ok that's at least some answer but there were plans in the works. She WAS going to be here to hunt. HEre's why I think this :

OW: Oh liquid courage!!!! it has gotten many men in trouble! He says I don't need it for courage. I speak my mind and if I want something I ask Did I tell you I usually get what I want ?, He says Ain't gonna do me no good over the puter But I may need a hand warmer this hunting season,he says It could be a new diet. 2 tits for breakfast followed by a sensible dinner. Don't forget to listen to that song, OW: :OK NOW dont make promises you dont want to have to live up to! He says, Iv'e been told I'm one of the best at it. No brag just fact, OW said not bragging but you were pretty good!!!!!! and he said me to
I reckon me and you got to see who maybe lying, OW says Maybe neither one is lying!!! He says Now got to find out for sure. With that lizard tongue and a viagra dammit girl look out"

That's just a few of their quotes. That's why I don't understand when he says just bs'ing, didn't think it was wrong.

I'm trying hard, VERY hard but I'm having a huge problem with this. Honesty is 1 of my highest values and he knows it. I can take what he tells me, I can't take the wondering.

Is it possible to get thru this without honesty on the EA? Am I expecting to much?

H has not done the EN yet. I'm hoping today he will. I did mine and will give it to him after he's done with his. It was quite the eye opener for me. Maybe that will help point us in areas of work.

I'm so GRATEFUL for the advice and support from each of you. Thank you so much.

Well, that email was very inappropriate. I suggest you get some counseling. If hubby doesn't think there was anything wrong with it, he has some serious problems.

Would he talk to the Harleys?

Would he speak like that to another woman with you standing next to him? Has he?

Would he be perfectly happy to have you discuss your "tits" and your sexual prowess with his fellow hunters?

I ask, because although the majority of people might respond "of course not!" - the reality is there are couples and/or individuals who get their jollies by crudely flaunting their sexuality in front of others, even when their spouse is there. Is he that kind of man?

He says he was BSing and he did not think it was wrong.

Does he BS like this with other women? Has he talked like this to other women?

If it was not wrong then, is he willing to have you share it with other people that are in your social circle or with members of your family?

Did he hide this BS from you?

How did he act with her at the cook-out at your house? Did he spend any time alone with her? If I remember correctly, you said she did not spend much time with either of you. But you heard after the party that she had been hitting on other married men at the party.

I am sure you have already asked him these questions. I am not certain how to advise you. I think it is the deception that is difficult for all us blameless spouses. He seems to be denying that he did anything wrong. Is he also denying that he deceived and lied to you?

No he would not talk to another woman like that. He admits he wouldn't say those things if I had been standing beside him at the computer.

He says he NOW knows it was wrong. But he can't seem to answer why he would even do this in the 1st place. I've asked him to do some soul searching because there has to be a reason (even if illogical to me) why he would talk to another woman in this way.

He never exactly lied, just said I was blowing this out of proportion and I was crazy, all was done jokingly. He has never said he deceived me, just this was jokingly done. I don't see joking in any of the few emails I quoted here.

He doesn't seem to remember now exactly what was said. I do! I printed it. Should I give him the print out and ask for answers then?

Lake, when she was at the cookout she pretty much avoided direct contact with us.

He did see a counselor, who wasn't a good fit. She wanted to deal with the other issues and not directly with this. I don't think he would be aposed to seeing/talking to someone and he does like the whole MB concept. So talking to the Harley's might not be out of the question.

I will give him credit, he is trying to improve our relationship. He IS making progress. My issue remains the honesty portion.

Am I being unrealistic in wanting answers? Should I let the why this happened drop and go forward? I do think he is sorry that he has hurt me and our relationship.

I'm just at a lost here. I don't know what to do now.

Thank you all so much, I need some experienced advice.

Our weekend went nicely. H is truly making efforts to improve our M, as am I. He is working on the EN's, I to chuckle he said boy this is very detailed will take some thought! AH, good, thought is good!!!

I still wonder, about the "why" and "how could this have happened". I still want his honesty on those. However I also am so PLEASED with the changes I see now very much like "Mr. Romance" post I'm not sure what do to? Do I let it go at this point and pray that the answers will come later or do I just let that go and make sure AGAIN that he knows my boundaries? This to my knowledge and belief is the 1st time in 30 years anything like this has happened. And thankfully wasn't a PA but EA's are not easy to deal with either. The betrayal is HURTFUL along with a whole host of other bad feelings.

Suggestions?????

I found that the "why"? and "how could this have happened"? never really got answered for me in the way that I was looking for an answer early on in the grieving process. We did find answers later about what changes needed to be made within my H and within our R to make certain that it did not happen again. My H's problems revolved around dwelling on activities in his youth, independent behavior, and secret behavior as in not sharing thoughts, feelings, activities of the day. My issues revolve around not letting him know how much I appreciate him and not telling him that I love him.

Congratulations on a good weekend. It sounds as though the two of you are on course and will be able to turn this around and make something good come out of something bad.

Eventually the important "why" of why he let his boundaries down will eventually surface as the two of you work on your R.

Let him know that you appreciate the changes that you see. I am sure that you are, but if you find yourself thinking anything about liking what he is doing, be sure to tell him those thoughts--don't keep them to yourself ever--share them!

Thanks! I needed to hear that. I want things to continue to improve. I don't want to keep holding on to the why and how could you and in the process destroy what is happening now. It's a HARD thing to NOT keep wondering those things but we are doing so much better and he is actively participating in our relationship more then in a very long time. And I am giving him positive feedback on the things he's now doing, period, without saying hey why didn't you do that before! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for generous help. I do appreciate it so much.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You are doin' good if you are able to show the kind of appreciation you describe. Congratulations. This EA can be a dark gift for your M and R.

The reason to figure out the "why" is so that it doesn't happen again. At the very least, he must develop a plan to be sure it never happens again.

I would call the Harleys.

Thank you.

I'll see what we can do about calling the Harleys. Are you suggesting I do that or him or us?

I'm not sure which one should talk to the Harley's but since no one else answered you--It seems that usually they want to talk to the spouse that got involved in the inappropriate relationship. Usually it seems that it is the betrayed spouse that calls them. So feel free to call them and go with what they suggest.

I would have him call. But they may want to hear some input from you too. Give it a try. Ask for a recovery plan.

Thanks I'll see what I can do.

Right now the weekend is starting off not so good. Back to same old routine of ignoring me but some how that's my fault. UGH!

Anyone got a good hidaway spot????? Preferably somewhere there's sand and drinks with little umbrellas?

How long has he been ignoring you?

I would go do something fun by myself.

Ok just a little rant here please...
Believer,
Most all week more of an indifference than out right ignore. I don't think this is an indicator of anything more than falling back into bad marriage habits. As I have been vigilant in my snooping. I know he's tired. He leaves for work at 4:30 AM and gets back home about 5:45PM working outside all day 4 days a week. But geezzz it really doesn't take much to at least be cordial. He'll tell me about his day, but never asks me about mine. Self centered, thoughtless type stuff. Now yesterday we were together all afternoon, becasue our youngest daughter is getting married in a month, so there were tux fittings, etc yesterday. 45 min. trip each way, NO conversation, nada, zilch. I asked him why he was so chatty, he tells me just concentrating on the road. Well ok, get to where we had to go, still just quiet. Ride home again I say why are you so quiet, I'm just really tired. Ok, I can understand no problem. Get home I go about my routine stuff...laundry, straightening stuff , etc. He says well I'm going to bed since YOU DON'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH ME. I coulda just choked him.

I told him that was unfair, he said he was tired, and I was leaving him alone to rest, not asking anything of him, nothing and further more he had done the same to me all day but I had just accepted his reasons. He was a bit surprised. I was a bit surprised! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So he goes off to bed, I went back in there to tell him, that hurt my feelings because I felt I was letting him rest (for lack of better word) and he was blaming me. And that was the way it USE to be and wasn't going to be like that anymore. He agreed he said he was tired but seemed to him I went out of my way to avoid sitting with him. Well duhhhhhh hard to do the laundry and dishes in the living room. I really think what he was trying to tell me he could see I was disappointed by no attention, and truthfuly I was. However I just went on with things that needed to be done. It just really ticks me that he was trying to blame me for this.

We'll see what today brings.

And just another note of thanks to those that read my rantings and those that respond, THANK you so much. After reading so many of the posts on this site it is so sad that so many people have difficulties in their marriage. It does make me some what embarrassed to even post here. His EA was devastating to me but there are so many that have horrible situations. I appreciate your time and suggestions.

Hi mvg,

I am more than happy to listen to any ranting. Done plenty of it myself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Remember, you guys are on a roller coaster!! ups and downs are going to happen. The fact that you told him your feelings were hurt is great. keep it up!!

and then you said "he agreed", that is great!! he then when on to share his feelings. now i know you don't agree that he should be feeling like you were avoiding him but you have to listen and accept his feelings whether you understand them or not. ok?

i understand it sounds like he is trying to blame you, try not to worry about blame. and YES, i know what I just said is REALLY REALLY hard to do.

find the positive. he shared with you, he didnt just grunt. thank him for sharing and today find time to just sit with him.

my DH is very similiar, he is so quiet, he does not need conversation. i get bored just sitting on the couch watching him watch tv, i don't like much that is ever on the tv, so i do as you do, laundry, cleaning, bill, there is always so much to be done, right??

one time my DH said same as you, i avoid him, i'm always keeping myself so busy. i'm thinking to myself, you are just sitting there watching tv, how can it matter to you if i'm being a lump next to you or if i'm somewhere else in the house being PRODUCTIVE??? how can being productive be bad???

well, think of it this way, he has a EN that you just sit with him. just like my DH does. So i've been trying to do that more. ya know, golf tournaments can almost be exciting!!! "ohhhh, that just bearly missed, darn!" LOL

don't wait to see what happens today, just have a good day!!

You asked him why he was so chatty. He said he was tired and concentrating on the road. Sounds like there was silence after that--both to and from the fittings. That's the time for you to implement your plan! Make a decision about how you want to set the tone. If you were silent--he could read that any way that he tends to read your silence. You have a number of response choices: 'okay, rest now so we can chat together while we finish house chores when we get home.' Or, 'gee, I thought conversation while we drive might help keep you awake and I have missed talking to you all week.' Were you really "okay" for him leaving you alone or were you "disappointed"?

When you came into the house, did you remain silent, or did you tell him that you were going to go ahead and finish dishes and continue laundry chores. Was there any joint agreement to how the evening was going to be spent? He is not going to take the lead in joint agreement so you have to take the lead. What did you want to have happen when you came back into the house? You need to talk to him.

When you asked him 'why he was so chatty' and he responded he was just concentrating on the road. Did you not talk after that? I think you put him on the defensive a little with the 'chatty' remark and he said the first thing that came into his head to defend himself. The focus was on his behavior--did you tell him anything about how you were reacting to his behavior? I would suggest an "I" message to him at that point. something like "oh, good, I'm glad it's only that you are concentrating, I was starting to feel like you did not like being here with me. I thought this might be a fun time for you and me alone together."

When he tells you all about his day, but he does not ask you about yours, what do you tell him about how you feel about that?

I know it does not seem fair that you have to be the one to give him hand over hand prompts about how to behave. And I'll bet you have done lots of things to try to get him to respond to you and by now you are tired of the dance.

Tell me more about how the actual set of communication behaviors went between the two of you. Unfortunately, all I can do is give you more suggestions on how you could change your communication behavior so that the dance between the two of you changes.

One of the things that really came home to me after my H's EA was the fact that there were many things that I THOUGHT about--that ran through my mind in my private world that I did not TELL him. Somehow, I think I assumed that he was aware of my private thoughts. Maybe it is from being together for thirty-some years, but I don't think so. I was truly reminded and became more aware that he does not know my private thoughts, I have to tell them to him. And I have to tell him by using "I" messages, telling him how I feel or how I am reacting, taking ownership of me.

Others on this board are more eloquent and articulate than am on this subject. Maybe others like Schoolbus will chime in.

I really did thank him for "sharing" his feelings with me. (good right?) however I also told him I wasn't going take the blame.(probably not so good?) My H has a tendancy to turn things around a bit and I was just fed up with the whole situation Friday. I feel like I'm walking on glass..I TRY not to pressure him, I am a good and thoughtful wife to him and trying to be a better one. He is making progress and I have complimented him on how wonderful I think his progress is.

He is a procrastinator. We agreed to MB as it seemed the most logical and direct method for recovering/improving our M. It has been 2 weeks since we started do the EN's survey.
He hasn't gotten around to starting it good/finishing it. He's been tired, he's been busy reading his hunting mags, his been busy picking his nose. I asked him if he was finished because he had moved his survey to my desk/work space. oh nah I'll get to it one day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

As for Friday and his lack of conversation, my chatty comment really has been a standing joke between us for years so I don't think he was defensive about that, I truly believe he was tired. He wasn't concentrating on the road either, it's a very easy laid back drive, no traffic. He has a tendancy to withdraw from me when he doesn't want to address issues, to avoid conflict, and sorta the opposite of angry outburts (clams up). He didn't like the fact that I turned his comments "you won't have anything to do with me" back on him. I would normally just take the hit and be hurt. Well I was hurt but NOT because I felt bad I was hurt this is a BAD HABIT he has. I wasn't ignoring him, I was disappointed I wasn't huffing and puffing, slamming things, I just was doing "busy" work. Well enough rant...I DID NOT FOLLOW MB! I screwed up ..again unfortunately. My patience is just stretched..how do you do it? I seem to be ok during the work week, but by the weekend my expectation level and anxiety level are so high I seem to sabotage (sp?) the effort.

Thanks, it might be safe to come out of hiding now! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Lake,

I did try saying that too. and Yes I was disappointed but I understood. Neither of us had slept well the night before.

I don't think I was silent when we got home, just went about doing what needed doing. However there wasn't much if any conversation as we were in different rooms for the most part. *I think he could tell I was disappointed about being ignored, and he didn't do that intentionally, but he wasn't about to apologize for it either. HE WAS TIRED! Darn it all and so to make himself NOT the "bad" guy he shifted the problem to me. BECAUSE I WOULDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIM yada yada yada.

I am NOT going to be the doormat any longer. I allowed it I took blame,responsibility, etc. that weren't mine and allowed not only H but DD's to to be disrespectful, take advantage, had guilt trips... SO how do keep myself in line with MB but not be the doormat?

Our conversation style...I'm direct, can go on and on and on also (ok, maybe a tad much). If it is an issue between us, he's a shuffle the feet, avoid, avoid, avoid, drink to much then spill your guts. If it's just a normal run of the mill conversation, getting him to give his opinion can be like pulling teeth.

Deep breath! Thanks for another rant...and I haven't even gotten to the sh$t hitting the fan last night. I haven't totally processed the whole thing, still thinking on that.

Thank you! Is it normal to start feeling like YOU are the one that is wacko?

I know that feeling about expectation by the weekend and anxiety level. But I still don't have a good handle on what happened at what point in time. The old he said, she said of these interactions you had.

I suggest that when you came home, you had a choice: to sit down with him and engage in conversation in the relaxed setting of your home and let the dishes and laundry go for the evening, or to go do the dishes and laundry. If you were going to do the dishes and laundry, it would be a good idea to model joint agreement by telling him that you did not feel that you could let laundry and dishes go untended and so you were going to take care of them rather than sitting down with him. Or you could have said, honey, would you help me with the dishes and laundry so that afterwards, we could both sit down together and (insert whatever you would want to do with him here.)

It does not sound like you had a conversation when you got home about how time was going to be spent--sounds like you did what you did and he did what he did.

What would you like to do with him on the weekend? Sounds like he is not going to be the one to make a plan for you and him for the weekend. And then, do you get tense, anticipating something good happening on the weekend and then get let down because nothing happens?

If the two of you are getting ready for dd's wedding, it is probably hectic in general and dd has the center stage right now. Are you saying that you feel taken advantage of by dd as well? Are you the housekeeper for them all?

I know I sound critical of you and I really don't mean to sound critical of you. It's just that you are the only one in the family that is here on this forum looking for help with the M. Since you are the one willing to make the changes, you are the one that I am suggesting changes to be made <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Remember, setting your boundaries and maintaining boundaries is not a love buster. Love busters are disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts, independent behavior, dishonesty, selfish demands, annoying habits. If things are going on in your household that you feel violate your boundaries, you have a reponsibility to maintain your boundaries. That is not a disrespectful thing to do as long as you don't lovebust in maintaining boundaries.

Hope your day improves and you can enjoy yourself a little and enjoy your H a little <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

You are right about the expectations..I will start to ask questions and be proactive.

As far as our "angry outburts" nope, I didn't tell him anything when we came home, he was tired so I did my own work. He admitted to me yesterday he didn't like me "ignoring" him and that's what made he upset. I told him welcome to the club. I wasn't intentionally ignoring you but I didn't go out of my way to engage you either. I don't care for it either. That he could understand a little.

Lake a little history:
3 years ago August our oldest Daughter moved back home, there was an ugly divorce, she had little money, trying to finish college and she went down the alcohol road so we finally convinced her to come home and heal. At the same time H hurts his back at work. (this is still an ongoing pain for him). Oct of same year youngest daughter is told by her fiance, leave he doesn't want her...she is pregnant due in Dec. so she comes home. Oh by then we find our Oldest is also pregnant. Gbabyboy born dec., Gbabygirl born April. May H starts with chest pains, we go from doc to doc to find out FINALLY he has some heart disaase, runs on both sides of his family. June youngest and GS move out on their own. H has been going to pain doc for almost year now trying to get his pain undercontrol. I had female surgery last Oct, and just this June day after youngest daughter had the twins, oldest moves out with gdaughter. THen end of July find out about the EA.

So there has been ALOT of stress all around. And I know that all in my family count on me as the "fixer", "healer",
supermom..otherwise translated, if you wait long enough she'll get fed up and just do it! I know NOT the way it should of been, I KNOW I allowed it. And I am in the process of unattaching each of them from sucking the life out of me. In trying to love them so much, I went to the extreme.
My dd's wedding is not only hectic but stressed. We are happy she is getting married (hey they just had twins in June) so that's great. But she is expecting alot financial and personally from us. We have set a small budget, there has to be assistance from them, etc. She's become more self centered and with a toddler and twins now she just doesn't have time for much of anything.(sacarasticly said) True but it's NOT my wedding. So H & I are both a bit fed up with her attitude.

I do NOT consider what you said critical. However IF that's what I need a critical assessment PLEASE thunk me on the head and give it to me.

H & I had a horrible horrible battle of words Saturday, however in all that there were somethings that came to light that we are now working on. Some things I thought had long ago been settled but apparently are still unresolved or not resolved to his satisfacation. And I felt horrible about having "BAD BAD ANGRY OUTBURsT" and was getting ready to apologize, he apologized first. That's a positive, heck that might even be a first! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm working on my boundaries and thanks for reminding me those aren't LB unless done wrong.

Dumb question...is there anywhere on the site that better explains boundaries and how to go about assessing and setting them?


Lake THANK YOU so much. I appreciate your taking your time and offering your insights.

Hi mvg,
This is a very busy time of year for me so I haven't found anything specific to boundaries within a marriage other than the info regarding ongoing infidelity. Thankfully, you are not dealing with that. I suggest you take a look at the main articles and focus on Policy of Joint Agreement, Radical Honesty, and the article about being a good parent involves the H and W taking care of each other== I forget the title of it but you should recognize it when you see it.

Three boys back in school--preparing for early decision for the oldest for college for next school year, Dealing with Special Education for our middle who is now in 9th grade, first year of high school and increased expectations along with an entire change in teachers and aides, and youngest who went through puberty in about 6 months and is finally coming around to being not oppositional. With the oldest, it feels like the next 2 months is the culmenation of our years of work with him--applying to colleges that are just below "ivy league". It feels like I am doing the big send-off....passing on the baton to....I will find out who in the next two months. Exciting and eventful days.

The EA really brought my H and I together and as a result of spending the 15 hours a week focussing on our M, we are ready for our oldest to leave the nest. My H and I have a life with each other now. We will miss our oldest when he leaves, but we will continue to have each other. This is key, that we have a world and a life together without the children.

Lake I thank you for looking. I totally understand about busy time of year, and also sending kids off to college. I wish you well with all that you have going on.

I wanted to tell you I will keep updating here, and I do appreciate your advice and suggestions. I hope as you have time you will take a look. Thank you for your support from the beginning.

H&I are working together, some backslides but recognizing sooner than later that opps that wasn't good...on both sides! We are continuing (a tad slower than I'd like) with MB.

I hope to hear from you from time to time as you have time. This has been an extremely hard time for me. NEVER saw it coming. And I am grateful, oh so grateful that it never became a PA. Still very hurtful tho.

Take care!

It does sound like the two of you are doing good. If you are both able to recognize love busters and the like and you can both acknowledge it to each other, that is great. How is it going with policy of joint agreement with all the decisions you are making relative to your adult daughters?

Keep the faith!

We're still figuring out the POJA as we go, doing well, but still we are catching ourselves making independent decisions. We've agreed in regards to daughters, I have a tendancy to overcompensate and he is more non chalant(sp?) so we're trying to watch each other so that we "balance" more and hopefully will be good for them and us...or at least us! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We are going to the lovely VA mountains this weekend to attend a picnic of an organization H belongs to. We're both looking forward to it. I love this "honeymoon" stage right now, just gotta keep it going.

I hope things are going well for you. I hope to catch up with you again as time allows. Thanks Lake!

Your planned weekend sounds great. It is especially nice that it is an organization that he is involed in. Have a great weekend. Both of you have earned it and deserve it.

Thanks, have a good one too!

Our weekend wasn't as great as either of us expected. Our 4 hour trip up wasn't bad but the weather was. So there were some tense driving conditions but we thankfully made it to the hotel with no problems. However once there things just sorta went downhill. My understanding was we were going to stay Fri & Sat then come home. Apparently my H decided no just Fri then make the trip home Sat. after the picnic. Friday he said he was exhausted from the trip, so we sat in the room the rest of the night watching tv. Not what I expected.

The picnic and location was absolutely gorgous. It was a nice time.

Our trip home was nearly silent. After about 3 hours I asked him, how do you stand to travel in silence? He told me he turns the radio up. Ok, ugh. Well that lasted a little while longer until I said enough. There were things we had discussed the week before, things he needed to think about, that needed to be resolved. So we did talk. Some issues were clarified. Some we are still working on.

I did tell H that I felt I was doing all the work to put things on the right track. He has been putting forth effort but if I don't "remind" him then he'll let it go. I don't want to remind him. It's frustrating. We are truly working on communication, it's taken us awhile to get where we are and unfortunately a while to get to a better place.

So even tho the weekend wasn't what either of us had anticipated, maybe it didn't turn out so bad either.

How soon should you expect a WH to step up his meeting your EN's?

WH is meeting some of mine, but had started doing that pretty soon after I found out and confronted him. H just is not progressing. Is that normal? Am I expecting too much? Or not enough? Where do I go from here? Wait it out? Or what? and IF wait it out, how long?

Thanks for any advice.

any suggestions?

anyone have ANY suggestions?

Hi mvg,
when you say should I wait it out and if so, how long---what is your alternative to waiting it out? I guess I am asking, are you committed to the relationship or are you thinking of ending it if he doesn't step up to the plate? You have mentioned before that you have been a very good wife. And I am sure this is the case in that you have done many good things.

The only thing that I can suggest to you is that you take a look at his emotional needs and make sure that you are doing a stellar plan A related to HIS emotional needs. After all, a wife can be a very good wife, but not be doing a stellar job at meeting her H's specific emotional needs. So the thing I can suggest to you is--Do you know for certain his emotional needs and are you doing a stellar plan A to meet them. Good luck. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I do finally have his ENQ's. I have been trying very hard to meet each one. Because of his work schedule I do not bring up/talk about any conflicts/questions regarding our relationship during that time. Only on his days off. Days working I try to meet his EN's I still meet his EN's on his off days, but I will inquire of him for ex., "I know you've been busy and tired, are you still going to participate in MB? And if when do you think you'll have a chance to (or want to) read/fillout __?___ and can we talk about it." I have not been pushy just inquired. The past couple weeks it was the ENQ.

If I said I have been a good wife I by no means meant without faults. Maybe I should have phrased that a dutiful wife. We've been emotional apart for a long time, unfortunately we didn't even realize that it could be different, now we do. I am in NO way suggesting I've been the perfect wife heck not even good, but loyal and do my part plus some in our relationship.

To answer your 1st question, I'm not sure I'm willing to wait it out. H's is VERY good at dragging his feet, doing just enough to look hopeful and waiting me out. For some reason I really feel doubtful at this time. His favorite hobby, hunting ( I think that's it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) starts in a couple weeks. I do not enjoy hunting, I've tried, I don't care for it. It does not make me unhappy that he hunts, it does however make me unhappy that there will be NO time for me or us except Sundays then. And then he'll be tired from not only work but hunting too. So again I'll be put on the backburner. I'm just tired of being no where important.

Maybe I'm just starting to get to the "angry" phase and this to shall pass.

I'd hate to think my H is to lazy to care. I just feel very insignificant and of no major concern to him. I'm really emotionally lonely.

Lake thanks for responding. I think my posts for the most part are just venting and wondering.

After I posted the above, I got to thinking. I guess I'm wondering is this Plan A I'm doing? If it's Plan A shouldn't there be some timeline? If it's recovery shouldn't there still be something for me to hang on to? Some point where either he's really taking responsibility for his EA and he's trying harder?

I am just lost. I don't know what I should be doing for how long before I just say he's not going to change for me. I'm still trying hard to meet his EN's. I want this to work, I just don't want to be the only one doing it.

I'm so sad right now. I'm afraid he's not going to put our M as a 1st priority. I'm afraid he'll do the minimum to try. I don't want to end our M. I just can't do it alone anymore. I need a life preserver.

Update: Well according to H after me asking him a question says here we go again, "I should just be Over this by now. Geezzz if it were him he would have been "mad" a couple of weeks and over it. It was just the internet." According to him "he can't change overnight but he's trying. But this was a wakeup call for not just him but both of us. And it seems nothing he does will ever be enough."

I asked him ok wake up call, please explain, other than it's expected of him to go to work every day and bring home the $ he could give me nothing else. He did say however, I (me) also work and bring home a little $. Never remembering ALL the years before the last 13 that I BROUGHT home the bigger paycheck, paid for all the family insurance, took care of 2 kids, him and the home. He moved us here, I got the best paying job I could in a rural area. This just seems so wrong. I am very PBS (pi$$ed betrayed spouse) now.

When do you realize they are never going to change. They will always put their needs and wants before anyone else?

update on Fencing sitting thread.