I orginally posted my story on the just found out forum as internet infidility?

We are making small steps forward, which I'm so grateful for, but....... I'm starting with what I'm assuming are anxiety attacks. Heart pounding, head hurting, trouble breathing, nerves shot (what's left). Are these normal? Is it normal for "triggers" just to put you back to D-day? HOW do you get past these?

I know last night H was suppose to start with the MB material, but just didn't get to it was VERY disappointing to me, and the anxiety attack started. I said nothing to him, just watched and waited. I understand from his view point this is going to rehash everything again, but I rehash everything EVERYDAY. I read Joseph's letter and that really hit the mark with me, and I have left that for him with the other MB material. I just feel if we could address my still lingering questions that THEN hopefully I will stop having to wonder and truly be ready for recovery because right now I guess I'm not, I'm waiting to see what he's going to do. I'm trying to meet this EN's while still feeling like I'm in limbo.

H is a procrastinator (sp?) unless it's something that's for him or he wants. I'm a get it done, gotta problem lets start to fix it, I work on trying to prevent problems. H says my expectations are too high for others even tho he admits that I don't expect more from anyone then I give or am willing to do myself.

Triggers are driving me NUTS! HOW do you handle them?????

Geezzz I hope this post doesn't sound as crazy as I feel right now! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for letting me vent.

mvb,

I used to get terrible anxiety attacks that started after the deaths of my parents.

I learned breathing exercises that reduced and finally eliminated them. It's a form of meditation that calms you and helps to bring your mind to a state of rest, or emptiness.

Look down at your nose and concentrate on your breathing. Close your mouth lightly with your lips parted slightly and the tip of your tongue on the roof of your mouth behind your top teeth.

Inhale/exhale slowly through your nose. In/out slowly and deeply. Concentrating only on your breathing and allowing your mind to rest.

If thoughts occur don't fight them, but continue to concentrate on your breathing.

It really helped me. I got them in business meetings and heavy traffic... and still sometimes get them if I am dealing with heights (but mostly avoid heights now).

All problems that only started after the trauma of my parents deaths. So the trauma of the affair is probably what has brought yours about.

weaver, won't that give her cross eyes???

mvb, lately, when i have anxiety attacks, i go jump off a building. more of my body is in a cast at this point then not.

ok, ok, i'm kidding. i've been told recently to relax more.

relax=joke

you are new here, i hope this is not in bad taste to be posting like this.

my intent was to give you a laugh.

you are not crazy.

but do listen to weaver's suggestion and NOT mine.

Weeell, yes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> But that is better than running screaming down the street. And as long as no one smacks you on the back, they won't stick that way.

Why would posting to a newbie be in bad taste? I don't get what is going on around this joint, and I don't want to get it, at least not today.

For today, I choose to live in lala land, and in lala land I will stay.

oh man y'all are cracking me up! Thanks!

mvg, JL posted something the other day about this very thing. About meeting the WS E/N's and changing the dynamics in early recovery.

I have a little work to do right now, but soon after I will find that for you and put it here, because I think it might really pertain to where you are right now in recovery.

Hope this helps mvg. It is taken off of another posters thread titled "whose fault is it anyway" (worth a read), by JL.

Thanks for posting...I'm not so sure I LIKE that letter! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> WH & I talked a great deal last night after he started reading the MB material. He liked the logical methodology and agreed lets try this. We started with Radical Honesty...both of agreeing that IS the only way to go, common sense he says! OK...good! So I asked my questions, didn't go so well. I got "I don't know", "I don't recall", "I didn't do that". And I broke the rules....I wasn't a raging wife, but I did push the issue because I don't think his responses are honest. Either he hasn't done some deep soul searching, I'm an idiot, he's an idiot or he thinks I'll just accept that and move on (Which I might have to), but I'm not ready to accept that yet. He's an intelligent man, these are in my opinion "teenager avoidance" techniques. Am I off base with expecting more then "I don't know"?????

I'm thinking of changing my name to crazywoman!

Not remembering, and not knowing is very common for WS's.

Also, it doesn't help for you to get angry when he attempts to answer your questions.

Are you certain she didn't hook up with him somewhere?

My FWH was very similar, he would say, "I don't know", or "I don't remember" about many things. This made me more worried because at that point, I had no idea how far the A had gone. It was totally out of the realm of possibility to me that he would be secretive about OW and have an EA. Therefore, was it more than an EA?, How much time did they spend together? What were his intentions? Was he planning on seeing her more? Did he see her more? What was he thinking when ... and when..... and when.....?

In retrospect, I understand that he was just taking action with her without thought to my feelings or any repercussions. He had no idea of how things would end, how he would ever make it right, etc. He was just too wrapped up in the fact that interaction with her was making him feel good, so he just continued the interaction. Much of the interaction he did have a hard time recalling as it was just fog babble, created with the intent of making her feel good so that she would interact back with him with more blah, blah blah that would make him feel good. None of it had very much to do with any reality.

So his responses to you are in part really that he does not remember and part that he does not want to tell you all because you will be upset and give him your contempt.

believer, I'm not a 100% sure they never hooked up, I don't think so that was on the horizen. If you read my beginning post under just found out...she wanted to hunt with the guys here. She had sent her $$ so I believe this would have turned into a PA. H doesn't see it that way, but hey he didn't think it was wrong till it was pointed out to him, that describing to OW what he wanted to do with her sexually, was wrong. So I'm not quite believing him about no PA.

I'm NOT angry of what he tells me (I think) it's just if he would tell me the truth. I think he's avoiding the truth. I didn't holler or scream nothing like that but I did tell him I didn't think he'd done soul searching to answer me honestly.

Lake, your situation and mine do sound very similar.
QUOTE "So his responses to you are in part really that he does not remember and part that he does not want to tell you all because you will be upset and give him your contempt."

So what do I do?

I do think it was hard for my H to state the "truth" because he was not certain what the "truth" was. He was just "acting" as in "taking action" or "making action". He was doing it for the sheer enjoyment of the little shot of good feeling that he got from it. He was being careful not to go too far in his compliments to her.

For example, when she said 'oh there I go again, rambling on and on to you', he responded that he 'was always captivated by your ramblings... blah, blah, blah... disappointed when you stop rambling...blah...blah...Funny but Lake and other family memebers claim I drift and don't listen to their conversations.'

Now can he tell me why he said that?-no. Did he remember that he said it?--no, not until I pointed it out to him in his email to her.

So there is not a lot of meaning to what he said, he was just reading what she wrote to him and looking for a way to be a flirty wise-guy in his response to her. He wanted to make her feel good by what he said to her, and he wanted to continue the conversation and encourage her to communicate back to him. He was also aware that he had to keep it all a secret from me.

What is the "truth" in all that?

What do you do?--Has he completly stopped contact with OW? If the answer to that is yes, then you keep going forward with building your marriage. Try not to get too p(ssy when he tries to tell you about what he was doing in the EA. Try to listen to him and learn from what he says to you. What he says to you can give you clues and a lot of information about how you can interact with him and meet his needs.

Try to let him talk to you. Allow a long pause in the conversation (School Bus says to count to 20 or so silently to encourage him to tell you more.) In fact, have you read "disgusted wife's" thread? She came on here about the time you did and her situation is a little similar but she seems to be dealing with a more difficult situation. She is getting some good advise from Schoolbus and others about how to talk to her WH. Take a look at her thread.

There isn't really any such thing IMHO as 'believing' or 'not believing' there would have been a PA in individual situations. There either was a PA or there was not a PA. I think it is safe to say that these EAs are a slippery slope and that they eventually frequently end up as PAs. I think it is a waste of time to dwell on whether or not in your individual case whether or not there would have been a PA.

More important is what were the weaknesses in your H's boundaries that led him to talk to OW and keep secrets from you. What are the weaknesses in the M and the way emotional needs are met for both of you. What are the love busters for each of you?

I know, it's easy for me to say that now. After all, I spend months looking for the "truth" to the EA. Did I find it? Sort of. We found the weakness in the boundaries and we are still working on meeting each others emotional needs and avoiding love busters.

To the best of my snooping abilities there is NC with OW.

I'm not getting p(ssy when he tells me about the EA, he tells me NOTHING. He didn't think it was wrong then. He$$ he didn't think it was wrong till I caught him. THAT'S what scares me. I don't interrupt him, I try to encourage honesty. He was just bs'ing. Ok that's at least some answer but there were plans in the works. She WAS going to be here to hunt. HEre's why I think this :

OW: Oh liquid courage!!!! it has gotten many men in trouble! He says I don't need it for courage. I speak my mind and if I want something I ask Did I tell you I usually get what I want ?, He says Ain't gonna do me no good over the puter But I may need a hand warmer this hunting season,he says It could be a new diet. 2 tits for breakfast followed by a sensible dinner. Don't forget to listen to that song, OW: :OK NOW dont make promises you dont want to have to live up to! He says, Iv'e been told I'm one of the best at it. No brag just fact, OW said not bragging but you were pretty good!!!!!! and he said me to
I reckon me and you got to see who maybe lying, OW says Maybe neither one is lying!!! He says Now got to find out for sure. With that lizard tongue and a viagra dammit girl look out"

That's just a few of their quotes. That's why I don't understand when he says just bs'ing, didn't think it was wrong.

I'm trying hard, VERY hard but I'm having a huge problem with this. Honesty is 1 of my highest values and he knows it. I can take what he tells me, I can't take the wondering.

Is it possible to get thru this without honesty on the EA? Am I expecting to much?

H has not done the EN yet. I'm hoping today he will. I did mine and will give it to him after he's done with his. It was quite the eye opener for me. Maybe that will help point us in areas of work.

I'm so GRATEFUL for the advice and support from each of you. Thank you so much.

Well, that email was very inappropriate. I suggest you get some counseling. If hubby doesn't think there was anything wrong with it, he has some serious problems.

Would he talk to the Harleys?

Would he speak like that to another woman with you standing next to him? Has he?

Would he be perfectly happy to have you discuss your "tits" and your sexual prowess with his fellow hunters?

I ask, because although the majority of people might respond "of course not!" - the reality is there are couples and/or individuals who get their jollies by crudely flaunting their sexuality in front of others, even when their spouse is there. Is he that kind of man?

He says he was BSing and he did not think it was wrong.

Does he BS like this with other women? Has he talked like this to other women?

If it was not wrong then, is he willing to have you share it with other people that are in your social circle or with members of your family?

Did he hide this BS from you?

How did he act with her at the cook-out at your house? Did he spend any time alone with her? If I remember correctly, you said she did not spend much time with either of you. But you heard after the party that she had been hitting on other married men at the party.

I am sure you have already asked him these questions. I am not certain how to advise you. I think it is the deception that is difficult for all us blameless spouses. He seems to be denying that he did anything wrong. Is he also denying that he deceived and lied to you?

No he would not talk to another woman like that. He admits he wouldn't say those things if I had been standing beside him at the computer.

He says he NOW knows it was wrong. But he can't seem to answer why he would even do this in the 1st place. I've asked him to do some soul searching because there has to be a reason (even if illogical to me) why he would talk to another woman in this way.

He never exactly lied, just said I was blowing this out of proportion and I was crazy, all was done jokingly. He has never said he deceived me, just this was jokingly done. I don't see joking in any of the few emails I quoted here.

He doesn't seem to remember now exactly what was said. I do! I printed it. Should I give him the print out and ask for answers then?

Lake, when she was at the cookout she pretty much avoided direct contact with us.

He did see a counselor, who wasn't a good fit. She wanted to deal with the other issues and not directly with this. I don't think he would be aposed to seeing/talking to someone and he does like the whole MB concept. So talking to the Harley's might not be out of the question.

I will give him credit, he is trying to improve our relationship. He IS making progress. My issue remains the honesty portion.

Am I being unrealistic in wanting answers? Should I let the why this happened drop and go forward? I do think he is sorry that he has hurt me and our relationship.

I'm just at a lost here. I don't know what to do now.

Thank you all so much, I need some experienced advice.

Our weekend went nicely. H is truly making efforts to improve our M, as am I. He is working on the EN's, I to chuckle he said boy this is very detailed will take some thought! AH, good, thought is good!!!

I still wonder, about the "why" and "how could this have happened". I still want his honesty on those. However I also am so PLEASED with the changes I see now very much like "Mr. Romance" post I'm not sure what do to? Do I let it go at this point and pray that the answers will come later or do I just let that go and make sure AGAIN that he knows my boundaries? This to my knowledge and belief is the 1st time in 30 years anything like this has happened. And thankfully wasn't a PA but EA's are not easy to deal with either. The betrayal is HURTFUL along with a whole host of other bad feelings.

Suggestions?????

I found that the "why"? and "how could this have happened"? never really got answered for me in the way that I was looking for an answer early on in the grieving process. We did find answers later about what changes needed to be made within my H and within our R to make certain that it did not happen again. My H's problems revolved around dwelling on activities in his youth, independent behavior, and secret behavior as in not sharing thoughts, feelings, activities of the day. My issues revolve around not letting him know how much I appreciate him and not telling him that I love him.

Congratulations on a good weekend. It sounds as though the two of you are on course and will be able to turn this around and make something good come out of something bad.

Eventually the important "why" of why he let his boundaries down will eventually surface as the two of you work on your R.

Let him know that you appreciate the changes that you see. I am sure that you are, but if you find yourself thinking anything about liking what he is doing, be sure to tell him those thoughts--don't keep them to yourself ever--share them!

Thanks! I needed to hear that. I want things to continue to improve. I don't want to keep holding on to the why and how could you and in the process destroy what is happening now. It's a HARD thing to NOT keep wondering those things but we are doing so much better and he is actively participating in our relationship more then in a very long time. And I am giving him positive feedback on the things he's now doing, period, without saying hey why didn't you do that before! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for generous help. I do appreciate it so much.