Lucy, he has engaged in high risk behavior. You need to protect yourself. You deserve so much more.

We know of a couple of people here who DIED from Aids and cervical cancer that was sexually transmitted. I would get checked right away, and REFRAIN from SF with him.

Denial. Imagine that from a WS.

Lucy - Mel and Believer are spot on. Get checked and get out.

Thanks. WH is on the EN forum, thread is EN as an addiction?

Lucy, there are people who can detect bullsh*t and those who can't. You realize that, right? Some of us are more gifted in that department than others. With some of us - namely ME - it takes one to know one. My past as an alcoholic [recovering and sober 22 years] gave me great experience in this department. Most alcoholics have wayward minds and are professional liars, con artists. I am a former professional bs artist who was raised by another bs artist so I can usually spot bs a mile off. I have a nose for it.

On the opposite end of the spectrum we have certain people who simply do not have bullsh*t detectors. Theirs is inoperable. They are not stupid people, they are not liars or conartists themselves and simply can't relate to such a mentality. They give most people the benefit of the doubt and usually never have an inkling they are snowed. In other words, they do not possess a bs detector and are utterly defenseless in the face of bs.

I suspect you may fall in that latter category and I hope and pray that you will allow your fellow board members to help you sift fact from fiction. Will you do that?

Lucy, your H claims that he and the OW did not have sex all those long hours they spent in the hotel room even though the OW has admitted to such.

I would get the lie detector test set up so he can take the test and prove her a lying ho! A lie detector test will CLEAR HIS good name and yall can even send the results to the OWH to set him straight! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I am lying low on mb as H does not know my new user name; he has referred to the old one and was unable to find any post from me, so far. Better that way though I have nothing to hide. He told me about his post so I looked for it.

I told him that in order for me to make any commitment to marriage building, the first step would be the polygraph. But I am not considering mb right now, so it just doesn't matter. I have discovered so many distasteful things about H that have little to do with the EA/possible PA. If there was or wasn't a PA, it doesn't matter at least for now.

It is so interesting, and validating, that several people have noted things in his posts like how it's all about him. He sent these confessions to his family (estranged) and mine, and every one of them had the same negative reaction to his confession, as did I.

Thanks for what you said ML about the bs detector stuff. Yes I agree. If I cared, I'd go for the polygraph. It's just that everything has become so much bigger than "just" the infidelity.

I'm happy to see how many people, including those of you who responded to me, are weighing in on his post. As for me, I'm overwhelmed by the amount of support I am getting from friends and family (including inlaws) who I haven't even been close to.

OK, I can't help myself so I'll ask. Did anyone else get pissed off by H's comments about if he can't be a better man for me then he'll be a better man for some other woman some day? I mean, my mind's not even going there.

Well, I do know he is talking the language of bullcrap, Lucy. He wants to equate his serial cheating with a "disease" and pretend like this is all something that happened to him. He also blames it on the state of the marriage. I can't imagine he got a good response to his so called "confession" with such a dishonest mentality.

What have you decided to do, Lucy? And you do understand that he is still lying about the physical aspect of the affair? Until he gets honest, this is hopeless. I am concerned that he is one of those who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with himself and others. I mean, here is a guy who is lying in his so-called "confession" even in the face of contradicting evidence.

You may have to accept that he is never going to change, Lucy, because I see no indication of even a willingness to change.

I'm sure you'll hit me with a 2 by 4 but while he could be pretending that this happened to him, he could also be talking about it in the only way he knows how... meaning he may not be intending to pretend, this is just where he is.

I do not know if he is lying or not. If it made a difference to me... if I found myself wondering about it, then I would do the polygraph. If I decide that separation and ending our M is possibly not what I want to do, then a polygraph will be essential and top of the list. But for today--and for the past several days-- separation is right for me, and I have told H this as well. I have told him that I am getting my information together, and have already gotten information from a lawyer though not yet committed to or retained one.

I don't know if he can change, or make permanent change. I think he can but there are different degrees of change so I am saying he can change somewhat but I do not know to what extent. I think he is willing, and frustrated by the overall tone of the response on his post. I think the last few posts to him recognized that he is on the verge of leaving the forum and have been a bit more even.

Of course he might be lying, and I completely understand how it looks. But if he is not, and is admitting to everything else, then I think it is in his best interests, and indirectly mine, to help him with all the other stuff. He needs to hear how his thought process and how he expresses himself reflect on him... not the words he chooses but how so much of he says reflects things that he should work on and will need to change, and is probably not aware of. Yes, you and others are saying he is completely aware of this and full of crap, but maybe he is just clueless about this after all these years of being, well, who he is and has become. While H thinks that his words are being judged and torn apart, I think--and told him so in an email--that mb'ers are using specific sentences as an example to illustrate their points and help him see what those points are. Some in a nicer way than others. If he is lying or pretending, a lot or a little, then I can see why so many of you who have been there need to not let him get away with anything. Maybe we can stop focusing on what happened in the hotel room that one time and focus on all the other stuff to make some progress. Or maybe I'm hopelessly gullible and should leave it to everyone else.

Yes, he is intending to lie, Lucy. Unless you believe he is delusional, and if he is, you should have him declared legally insane in a court of law so you can have him committed to the nuthouse. But I do not believe he does not know true from false or he wouldn't hide in the first place.


gotcha. but please don't tell me you don't know if he is lying, or I will smack you about the head! The days of denial are over, Lucy. You do this man a HUGE disservice by allowing him to get away with these flagrant lies. He is not even a GOOD LIAR, but he has been led to believe they are good lies BY YOU. You see the reaction of the folks he emailed with his confession? They know he is lying. So do folks here. So, please do us all a favor and don't slip back into rationalization land. That is what has led to this current state. Denial was a huge part of the problem and continued denial will just get you more of the same.

IT IS NOT IN HIS BEST INTEREST TO BELIEVE HIS LIES!


He is frustrated because he is not able to bullsh*t the folks on this forum. He is not willing to be honest. Coming here and lying to the people on the forum is not a demonstration of willingness, Lucy. But a demonstration of his DESIRE to get his [censored] out of trouble until this dies down.

If he leaves, it will only be because he can't find validation for his lies on this forum. And you should stop validating him for lying, Lucy. He should not be praised for coming here if it is to be dishonest.


Until he gets honest, there is nothing else TO focus on because it is pointless. We can't progress from a state of dishonesty.

Lucy, in typical wayward fashion, your H will soon realize that his bs has a short shelf life on Marriage Builders and people see right through him. In order to escape such scrutiny, he will likely act in classic WS fashion and proclaim himself a "victim" of those mean folks on MB, storm off the forum, claiming he "tried." That is the classic behavior of a dishonest wayward.

When he is ready to get honest, though, he will be back. Until then, he will cry victim. Count on it.

Yesterday he decided to leave mb. Last night he decided to confess... he spent the night with OW in the hotel. I am a bit shocked that he did it, a bit shocked that he confessed it (and when I wasn't even asking), and a bit annoyed at myself for being the gullible person you said I was. 4 years ago I had a very hard time with feelings of stupidity, in addition to dealing with every other aspect of discovering WH's separate life, for not knowing for 8 years... and then believing him when a woman called to tell me what was going on (I then discovered it myself, by accident when I used his computer, 6 months later). But I am not bashing myself now. It irked me when one of you asked why I didn't catch this myself. But I disagree... this was not my fault. If someone wants to hide an affair, they can do it. WH had 8 years of experience to draw on this time. Short of having spyware for the last 4 years... well, that would not be the way to live.

This doesn't change much... or maybe it does and I just don't see it yet. I had already contacted a lawyer. His actions don't affect the legal stuff... that is only the case if alimony is in play and it is not, just child support.

I only have one question for right now. I'm sure others will surface.

Because of our travel schedules (heavy in the next month, and then light probably through the holidays), we had planned for him to stay in the guest room for at least the next month. Now that I know for sure how untrustworthy he is (he also confessed to years of reading my journal/diary), I am not sure what to do. Obviously he is seeking help, confessing, is starting therapy and 12 step program (has already read several chapters and he is not a reader), but people don't change overnight and maybe he never will. I am going to tell him to get his own place sooner rather than later. I have a month... I am away for one night next week and then a week in early Oct and another in mid October. Do I just put my stuff in a locked place or out of the house (any papers, etc) so that he can stay here with the kids? Or do I put telling the kids on a fast track and get him out and into a place that he can host the kids as well, and change the locks?

I guess I'll be moving to the divorce forum, or to another site altogether since WH could be reading all (to date I have preferred that he not read my post but have not said anything I would not want him to read if he found it).

Wow.

Lucy, I would take a hard look at moving forward as you had planned and letting him manage his own problem. If he does ever get honest [and he is not very honest when he calls his cheating a "disease" and attempts to link a character problem with CANCER] you can take a second look. It will take a lot more than talk for him to change. And your typical bullsh*t artist will talk alot about change until the heat dies down so he can get back to cheating. So, backing off would not be in his best interest or yours, Lucy. He has been able to do this for years on end because he knew how to play this. He didn't really change the last time, he just waited for the heat to die down.

I don't know how you should handle the rest of the details, but I do know that you need to tell those kids, and SOON. My father was also a serial cheater and the greatest damage my mother did to us was remain SILENT. We knew what was up and instead of protecting it, her silence caused us great moral confusion. Your kids need to know the truth about their life, lest they will fill in the gaps, and they need your moral guidance. They need you to tell them that adultery is immoral and why. Dr.Harley is very clear about the need to tell children.

And Lucy, you are right; you are not to blame for his affairs. But you would be to blame if you continually allowed him to get away with it. It seems that is changing, and I stand by my offer to stand in as your bullsh*t detector, since yours is not there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I was having lunch with a wonderful guy I am dating and he was asking some questions about all this, and he commented on how brilliant it was for me to ask for a polygraph test. So I figured I'd come back and say thank you once again for the wonderful help I received in my time of greatest need. Goalie Guy moved out in November, the kids are doing great, and I am the happiest I've been in I don't know how long. MB worked for me when I first had to deal with infidelity, and I have absolutely no regrets about sticking with the marriage back then, or ending it now. Several people have asked me if I think it is possible for Goalie Guy to have a monogamous relationship... I really don't know, and I really don't care. I am enjoying finding out about myself, about what I want and don't want in future relationships, and I always keep the mb principles in the back of my mind. Thank you, and Happy New Year!

Lucy