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#1934671 09/01/07 04:31 PM
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I mostly ended all contact with OM and was nearly completely honest with H. I maintain to H this was EA, no P involved. I can't understand why he doesn't question me on this. If he thought about it I believe he would be suspicious. I nearly want him to call me on it. I'm scared he will.

I feel no regret. I ought to. What is wrong with me? Am I a bad person?

H was crying last night. I held him and I felt good holding him. I was glad he was crying. Again, what is wrong with me? I should be remorseful for causing him such pain. Instead I welcomed the opportunity to comfort him.

And how can I forget the pain I caused OM ending it? Yet my only feeling was a thrill to know I meant that much to him.

The grief & sadness over losing OM is slowly fading. It's been not quite a week since I ended it. I am a little relieved it is over, the secrets & double life. That's it. No remorse or regret.

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"mostly ended contact" is not enough sara.

You need to write a no contact letter to the OM and never ever ever have any kind of contact with him again.

And then you need to tell your husband EVERYTHING.

If you do not do these 2 things, it will be impossible for your marriage to ever be fully recovered...and in fact will likely die a slow death.


~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
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sarabike - you don't really want to know the answers do you?

How old are you Sarabike?

What do you think love really means?

If you had been raped, instead of willingly giving yourself to someone other than your husband, how would you feel if the rapist had "no remorse or regret?"

That's exactly what you did to your husband.

It's STILL "all about you."

That's NOT a very nice person. Is that who you really are or who you want to be?

The "problem" is that you have no understanding or concept of the devastation you have caused someone you supposedly love. No, you'd rather be the "florence nightengale" who comforts the one who was raped AS IF you were not the rapist.

Do you really want help or just why are you here?

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Rosie is right, only complete and total no contact will ever work. An alcoholic cannot ever recover if he just "mostly quits" drinking. Recovery only begins when he COMPLETELY ENDS drinking.

Quote
nearly completely honest with H

Neither will half assed honesty suffice. The solution to infidelity is honesty, not more lies. Your H is entitled to complete and total honesty and complete and total no contact.

I would get the book Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley and check out this video: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6806_inf.html

Patriot's guide for wayward spouses: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;page=3#2696721


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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p.s. can you send your husband here so we can help him?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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sarabike,

I want to share this with you because it's the first thing I thought of when I was reading your post. I read this article some time ago....but I searched and found it for you: A Field Guide to Narcissism

I mean it when I say I'm worried about you. You need some spiritual and ethical growth that is going to take alot of work. Please go see an IC and tell them what you've revealed here.

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Did you have this affair to punish your husband for something?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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honey - bring your husband here. I promise we will get him to call you on it. It is the #1 thing you can do if you really want to recover.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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Dear sara..

You are placing YOUR own importance and relevence of love in to the hugely demonstrative and RARE occasions of great emotional output...

your examples of "feeling good"...

when husband cried
when OM showed "pain" over the ending...

these are futile tail chasing attempts...to have you feel good...


the reason they occur is that they are created out of great drama and emotion...

deep deep even dare I say it passionate love
is love in action...

celebrated in all we do for one another...

in even the most mundane of tasks....

not in the great emotionaly charged liasons...trysts and then blowups...

the high you seek
the feeling you get from only these types of encounters...
is all about you being very very out of touch with reality...

AND
with those things and qualities that hold true value...

what are the 'reasons' for you having an affair...

ARK

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MelodyLane, I did not have the affair to punish H.
ark, I did not have the affair on purpose. There were no "reasons".
ForeverHers, I am 33. I don't see what age has to do with anything.

I came here for help and got attacked. I don't expect sympathy, especially not from betrayed spouses, but I hoped for EMPATHY from other cheaters. It's a good thing I have the book now (Surviving an Affair) which doesn't attack & blame anyone. I suggest you all read it again, since you don't seem to have gotten the message yet.

H & I were devoted to each other through the holiday weekend. I can't remember ever feeling happier or more in love with him. Friday 90% of my thoughts were still about OM, today maybe 10%.

H is monitoring the forums that OM & I are both on and I've agreed to sign off if he asks me to. I hope that some day I'll have the strength to tell H the whole truth. I know *he* can handle it, but *I* can't face his anger yet. However, every time I say "I can't" I am surprised when a day or an hour later I find myself doing what I thought impossible.

If someone said to me what I said in my first post, I would tell them "You feel numb and it will pass." I would also say, OM & H's pain makes her feel cared about, an emotional need for her.

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Sara-

Actually, I just re-read all the posts, and if you do the same you'll see that no one has attacked you.

What they HAVE done is not 'let you get away with it'. Saying that you've ALMOST established no contact with OM...that you're ALMOST honest with your husband...isn't enough. The truth is...you KNOW its not enough too. But it hurts for you to face that. And being forced to face that isn't comfortable...so it feels like you're being attacked.

Here's the thing. You need to take OWNERSHIP AND RESPONSIBILITY right now. You know that its YOUR job to be honest with your husband...but instead you question why he's not pushing you to be honest. See the problem here? Its YOUR job to be honest...not his to 'make you' be honest. Same for NC with OM...'almost' doesn't cut it. You KNOW that...the truth is, you don't WANT it yet. Your 'heart's not in it'...so you're not putting your full effort into it.

I'm not attacking you. I don't know you. Your situation and your life don't impact mine at all...I don't have any reason to attack you.

But I AM telling you the truth. Its harsh reality that's going to move you from sitting there feeling sorry for yourself to motivating you into actually WORKING to save your marriage and recover from what's happened.

Don't let the hurtful truth stop you from doing what you need to do. Stop putting it on your H to make you be honest...be honest on your own. End contact...ON YOUR OWN. WITH your husband is great...but its not HIS job to fix what you've done by having this affair...its YOUR job to do so.

Make sense?

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Cheaters don't deserve empathy. Ex-cheaters that have made the decision to be honest and stop abusing their spouses deserve support and understanding.

You are someone that is making a DAILY decision to hurt your H and you want empathy. Grow up. Until you are honest with your H you are a WS. Period. Until you take the step to get your H out of the dark, you are abusing his trust and your M vows. Oh, boo hoo, nobody is empathetic to your plight. Well, perhaps that is because we shouldn't sit by and support your abuse of another person.

Give your H honesty and you will find support here. Continue on your current path and you will find condemnation...at least from this keyboard.

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Quote
If someone said to me what I said in my first post, I would tell them "You feel numb and it will pass." I would also say, OM & H's pain makes her feel cared about, an emotional need for her.

That is what a wayward mind would say, not a healthy, recovered mind. It sounds to be like you came here to look for validation for cruelty, not answers. You won't find validation for bad behavior around here. You will find answers and validation for doing the RIGHT thing, though.

If you want to talk about how the pain of your victims makes you feel good you might try Masochists Anonymous. But not in a place that is populated by decent people.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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And you have not been attacked. You are offended by the TRUTH. The TRUTH is your enemy, Sara. And you can run, but you can't hide from the truth.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Sarabike,

I'm a FWW and I want to add my 2 cents. I know right now it feels like you are being attacked, but in all reality people are giving you real advice. I know how hard it is to "hear" what is being said to you. I would suggest rereading this entire thread and imagine the words are being said to you in a calm, helpful manner. (That is how I interpreted them and they can have a completely different meaning if interpreted as if they are being said in a harsh manner.)

Try it and let me know what you think.

I was in your shoes at one point and was going to take my A to the grave. It took me 15 months after I ended it to finally understand why it was the most important thing to do in order to rebuild my marriage properly.

Someone gave me this advice once on a different board and I still find it true to this day:
>>>I know only that anytime I'm disturbed by a post or thread, it's down to me to identify what's bugging me. Chances are high it's something *I* need to address in myself, whether it's re-addressing some issue or addressing an issue for the very first time.<<<

Think about what I said. Posters really are trying to be helpful, you just have to be open to the advice.

LC





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Let me offer some practical advice.

Feelings follow actions...that is the crux of behavioral psychology.

So the actions/behaviors that you are using right now are protecting you from feeling the very things that you are disturbed by not feeling.

Still with me?

You would feel love for your husband if you were DOING in love...even if he were an AWFUL man...just your mere choice to invest would give you feeeeelings for him whether they were healthy or not.

You have not been intimate in your choices and actions and so your relationship has no feelings of intimacy.

I think that integrity just sort of...is...even when it's really inconvenient. Try to live two separate lives and inevitably you will drift toward one and detach from the other.

You have been living detachment and withdrawl from your husband and so you do not FEEL his pain...

You have been hiding from your guilt and from taking responsibility so you don't FEEL remorse or shame.

When you change the actions you change the outcome.

So I'm wondering just what "struggling" means to you...I suspect it means something like when I tell my husband that "I'm struggling with getting the house cleaned today" and he looks at me with an expression that clearly expresses "yes, that remote sure does look heavy".

What I mean there is that I'm waiting to feel like doing it before I start and I'm trying to get out of taking responsibility either way.

That's kind of where I see you at too.

When you are ready to struggle in earnest let me know...I'll be ready to help.


Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once ~Shakespeare
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The truth to a wayward is like throwing holy water on a vampire.........ouch!

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Quote
I came here for help and got attacked.

Sarabike, you didn't come here for help, you came here for sympathy. We recognize that because you are not the first person who has tried the same the thing under the guise of seeking help.

I asked you why you are here and you responded with: "I hoped for EMPATHY from other cheaters."

Empathy, especially when you are continuing your half-truths with your husband and feeling no regret, is for your husband. If you want empathy, then start doing the right thing. You messed up "Big Time" but you don't want to hear, much less DO, the truth, which IS what you will get here from people who have BEEN through the mess caused by adultery.


Quote
ark, I did not have the affair on purpose. There were no "reasons".


Sarabike, you can lie to your husband and lie to yourself, but we DO know better. NO ONE just "accidentally" has an affair. It is a CHOICE you made, on purpose, for whatever reasons you used to rationalize and justify it in your mind so that you could "grant yourself the permission" to commit the ultimate betrayal against your husband.


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ForeverHers, I am 33. I don't see what age has to do with anything.


At 33 you "should" know better, but you didn't and you still don't. You are still focused on "me" just as if you were half your age. You don't want your husband to be angry with you, so you withhold the truth. Does THAT sound like 33, or 16 or 17, to you?


Quote
If someone said to me what I said in my first post, I would tell them "You feel numb and it will pass." I would also say, OM & H's pain makes her feel cared about, an emotional need for her.


sarabike, this remains "all about you." Nevermind that your husband doesn't feel cared for by you. As for the OM, I hope he DOES feel pain for the harm he has caused you husband, but I suspect he is just feeling his own "self-centered" pain to.

I asked you other relevant questions too, such as your concept of love, but you chose to ignore that too.

If you really want to recover your marriage, there are some fundamental changes you are going to have to make in yourself, but that doesn't seem likely at this point. Your statement, "H is monitoring the forums that OM & I are both on and I've agreed to sign off if he asks me to" is indicative of this.

You want your husband to be the "bad guy" in this decision. You want it to HIS decision, as if "he can't handle it." YOU either do not understand or you do not accept that the decision is YOURS to establish NO CONTACT of any sort, to avoid places where you "might" come into contact with the OM, for the rest of your life. That is the MINIMUM you owe your husband that shows YOU are serious about recovering your marriage.

But no, you'd rather position it so that your husband is the "bad guy" who can't handle "occasional contact" with the person who tried to destroy his marriage.

At 33 I would think that I wouldn't have to say this, but your ACTIONS indicate that it IS necessary....Sarabike, grow up.

There can be NO 3rd person in a marriage, and when a third person is also a person who was engaging in adultery with your spouse, that FACT eliminates any "friendship" or "possible contact." Quit those sites, read the book (we all have and we all understand it quite well thank you), and begin to make real changes in yourself if you really do want to save your marriage.

The problem you have right now is you have virtually NO concept of what your adultery has done to your husband. You have what appears to be "second chance" with him, but we also know what is going on in his mind and what he has yet to deal with.

If you want to get mad at us for speaking the truth, then do so. But Lies won't work, not lies of commission or of omission.

Just out of curiousity, but something you should really think about, what WERE the words of your wedding VOWS?

It's quite possible that they included something like "forsaking ALL other and KEEPING myself ONLY unto you."

You trashed that one already. If you want to save your marriage, you had better really understand and embrace that vow because that is a fundamental requirement of all healthy marriages.

Are you still in fog? Yes, there is no doubt about it from what you have written. Can it get better? Yes, but not until you really understand what being married means and that your HUSBAND's feelings and needs take priority over your own, and that the OM's don't count at all.

If you don't reach that point before your husband runs out of patience and endurance, your marriage will not survive.

You DO want your marriage to survive, don't you?

Isn't that WHY you really came here?

To learn HOW to save something that has been destroyed by your own hand?

If so, put down your anger and your pride and LISTEN. Listen, evaluate, and implement.

When you begin to "get it," you WILL feel remorse, regret, and guilt. Until then you will "struggle" with self-centeredness and everything will be "about you." The "struggle" ends when you finally CHOOSE to do the right things, not for what you get out of it, but because it's right and it's what you want to give your husband out of love FOR him.

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dear sara...

my question
what are the "reasons" for an affair...

is not a defensive question
not an attack...

but an honest question with out judgement about what you feel if anything brought you to the point that you lead you to betray yourself your husband and the OM...

infact if you would entertain me and not be defensive....


one reason I would leap to conclude... is that you felt like you needed some great demonstrative emotional responses from people ...be it husband or OM to feel something...

that's not a excuse for an affair..

but sometimes there are root motivators....that if and when we can identify....we can work on those...and work on fullfilling or disposing of those needs so that the 'urge' to cheat or fill those "needs" disappear...

there have been hundreds of betrayed spouses and wayward spouse that have here on these boards wrestled with the question...

WHY DID I OR WHY DID HE/SHE HAVE AN AFFAIR...

scarier is the answer "because"...vs an answer with some real soul searching and changing...

If I were a betrayed spouse I would feel very hopeless if my spouse cheated and the reasons were...

no reason just because...

do you see what I am asking you
can see deeper past your put of defenses assuming no one here wants to help you...

I want to help you..
I like to address core root thoughts and impulses...whether they be a WS or BS...

break them down...
and see what we are really dealing with..
and figure out how to get those needs filled by the spouse or oneself...

so the NEED to look outside of marriage...
is erradicated...

I'm willing to invest time in this as are lots and lots of very helpful people...round here...

ARK

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H is monitoring the forums that OM & I are both on and I've agreed to sign off if he asks me to.

sara..
can we just look at this sentence


your husband is not your mother...not your keeper...not your jailer...

he should not have to tell you to stop posting/viewing an site on which the OM is/lurks/read/posts...

this should and must be your gift from him...

not his choice...
but is must be yours ...and ACT of LOVE...

do you see how going to your husband and saying I am still in a place where there is contact/potential contact...

BUT
if you ask me to I will not go there...

your husband feels that you don't really love him enough
aren't really invested in him or the marriage

because you aren't willing to sacrifice and give up an exact mode of contact..which hurts or has the potential to hurt your husband very badly...

and so it becomes his role to monitor and reign you in...when you should be the one offering all you can to make him feel safe and love...

even if it hurts at first to leave those sites..
even if it costs you friends at those site..
even if
even if
even if

If it was left up to me...to have to be the jailor to a WS and be the one to say...
ummm please don't go on the site with OP..it hurts me...

I'd walk away...

before I have to be their over-seer

sara I beg you..
offer your husband a great ACT of love...for your words of remorse will appear empty without actions...

and go to him and say...

I realize that ANY contact with OM must stop and only causes YOU great pain....

so I am NOT going on any sites he frequents..and cutting ALL contact...

ARK

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