Well, got back from nice vacation w/ WW and kids. She "suffered" through, while kids had great time.

Got home, went to dinner at friends house - left, came home and then the stuff hit the fan...

I made motions toward the bedroom, and she says SHE's staying there, and I can't. I say, but it's just as much mine as yours and I choose to sleep there. She says she's been sleeping on the couch too long and "she needs a space of her own"...I say, yes, and you can choose to be wherever you want, but I choose to sleep in the bedroom... Well, it seemed to make sense to me, but it not so much to her...go figure...

She starts ranting and raving how she needs this, and she needs that, and we're getting a divorce, etc., etc. This, meanwhile is being overheard by the kids and my DS interposes himself and starts yelling at us both to stop.
Long story short, after much emotion and yelling, we all 4 sat down and w/ the "talking stick", my son began to lay into WS. He said some things about the OM that shocked me - not WHAT he knew, but that my son could be so full of venom about anything in his life... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> He used much foul language and left no doubts as to how he felt about the guy... He also said, and I was shocked..."Mom, you have to choose...it's either HIM (OM), or ME" Mom says, "it'll be fine, you'll be fine..." but he yelled back at her - "No mom, it WON'T be fine, as long as you're with HIM"

DD who rarely has a bad thing to say about anyone, said she "never liked him"...and (this broke my heart - and shocked me) "Mom, I never felt safe coming out of my room after 10pm"...

I need to reiterate here that when I told the kids, I did NOT get emotional about the OM, I did NOT say anything mean about him, I did NOT make any judgements other than to say, "I don't know him, but based on his actions, I do not like him"...that's IT! I didn't want them to have to feel in the middle of their parent's problem, I only wanted to give them the knowledge to deal with what's going on around them. All the venom and judgement was from within THEM, based on their own observations, feelings and gut. I have never been more proud...and sad.

WW did NOT respond to either of the kids observations or statements, instead focusing on what SHE deserves - a place of her own, that she and the kids can have. The kids both immediately responded "Mom, we are NOT moving!"

Today she agreed to go to a family counselor. We've got appt next week. I get the impression that she's expecting/hoping, that any counselor we go to will tell me how wrong I was to tell the kids... She is so focused on her point of view that she refuses to see anything except in terms of how it affects HER. I repeatedly asked her if she "heard" what her children told her.... She says yes, but she's not really listening.

I fully expect her to file this week.

This sucks...

I think this little fiasdco could come out as a positive.

BTW...be VERY proud of your children!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Perhaps this will wake mom out of her fog...it better because she is losing her children. She should speak to my ex who now has very limited visitation with our child...and he really doesn't like seeing her the little that he is with her. Your WW is peeing it all away...hopefully hearing that right from the kids will make that very clear.

Please email me at my address below. I've got information to share with you off-site.

Mr. Wondering

...........this is something my father told me long ago


"blood is thicker than water, but not as thick as cum"


That sounds horrible I know, BUT......its true. People have affairs and they know it crushes the spouse and kids.....the whole family, yet the wayward is so selfish and can only think of themselves.....they do not care at all.

Capitan-

I'd agree with MEDC...this can definitely be to your advantage.

My wife was convinced that the kids would LOVE OM...and that after a short period of transition and change, we'd all end up in some kind of three way extended family and friends thing. She was convinced that OM and I would be best friends, her and I would still be great friends, and that the kids would be completely happy with the arrangement.

She had a huge shock when they told her that there's no way that they were willing to meet OM. They would NOT go with her to stay with OM for at least the next year. They would not talk with him on the phone...they were angry and hurt and not about to support what she was doing.

Talk about a wake up call for her.

Hopefully this will be the same kind of thing for your wife as well. Let the kids know how proud you are of them...don't let her back them down. Hold your ground...remind her that this is NOT just about "HER". This is about the whole family. Unless she's choosing to no longer be a part of that family, she doesn't get to make all the decisions and be selfish and only focus on what SHE wants.

Oh....SNAP!

BTW, please keep updating your story on one post. People who don't know your story might want to chime in but will refrain from doing so because they don't want to have to search through several pages of posts to catch up with your story.

Captain, your kids nuked her fairytale little world.

The gingerbread house with the gumdrop roof and white picket fence is now exposed for the smoking crater it really is.

The OM isn't prince charming, he is the big bad wolf.

Good on them!

I can only hope and pray that my SS was strong enough to rebuke his mom.

Similar story here. My wife had factored in the kids setting up happy families with her and OM. They stattered her fantasy when they told her they were going to live with me.

Silly aliens.

Dear Capitan,

Rest assured that your decision to tell your children is just that, “your decision”. There is NO clear right or wrong here and it mostly will be judged on your kid’s maturity to process this information. From your posts it sounds like you have made a GREAT decision. As you noted, they were aware that “something” had been out of order for a long time. You did the right thing.

Further, you do not need your wife’s permission to tell them. The simple fact is that it is “she” who is driving the family to dissolution. Is not surprising to witness how simple it is for your kids to discern the difference between “right and wrong” even though your wife is mostly oblivious to the damage that she is causing. Adults often times “muddy up” the truth with rationalizations that obscure the simple truth that our children easily see through.

She is now faced with being the hero or the villain. See can return to the family and fix what is broken or she can descend further into self serving gratification at the expense of those around her. The life we make is always tied to the choices we make. Your children will help echo your hope to restore the marriage. They will help her to see the things that are obscured by the fog of infidelity. She will tell them that they are young and do not understand but the truth is that it is “she” who does not understand. You must be very proud of them.

Thus your children learn a great and valuable lesson. They have learned that to violate the commitment of marriage has disastrous consequences. Make sure that they carry this lesson with them as they grow into adulthood. Teach them about love and what it really means between husband and wife. I know this sounds corny but you can give them no greater gift. Above all, “walk the walk” and they will follow you and admire you (as it is clear that they already admire their father).

However, you may yet discover that sometimes just being “right” is not enough. As you are aware, you have culpability in creating an environment that helped pave the way for an affair to happen. Your wife is of course responsible for the ultimate decisions to engage another man and for that, she gets 100 percent of the credit. But relationships of love require that both participants communicate in the language of love and that means always acting in a loving fashion. I suspect that language stopped a long time ago as your tours of duty called and separation between you and your wife resulted; one thing leads to another. The military is tough on a marriage; that is for sure.

Saving your marriage will prove a difficult task but certainly not impossible. At this point your future with your wife depends on her cognitive ability to understand what she is really doing. That is always a tall task when the wayward is lost in the fog but many here will attest to stories of success. Your kids will help her to see the harm that she has created. She will view most everything that you say with suspicion and doubt, but when heard from someone else…

What plans are you prepared to make to ensure that if given a second chance that your wife will come first? I suggest that you give careful thought to this question. Do you want a wife or do you want the military? You can’t have both without compromise and consider that a marriage is nothing to compromise. Think about the answers to these questions as within the answers lie the philosophy by which successful marriages endure.

Best of luck Capitan (thank you for serving our country and protecting my family).

Mr. G

APPLAUSE APPLAUSE!

i am giving your children a standing ovation.

i am very sorry for their pain, all of our children suffer. but bravo that they told her exactly how it is.

too bad she is too fogged out to hear it.

and when they choose not to live with her it of course won't be because of her actions, no, she will say it is because you brain washed the kids against her.

stupid waywards. god forbid they take a good long look at themselves and their part in how their children feel.

mlhb

Capitan, I hope to God that you validate the feelings of that boy, lest he end up morally confused and damned to years of self doubt. You are SUPPOSED to teach him right from wrong. He is supposed to JUDGE that adultery is WRONG, and that judgement needs to be VALIDATED and TAUGHT by you, his father.

You do your children a tragic, life changing DISSERVICE that leads to years of MORAL CONFUSION and self doubt by remaining SILENT. Children do not learn from SILENCE but from CLEAR, MORAL GUIDANCE. It is child NEGLECT to not teach children right from wrong. Telling them only that you "don't like" this creep is not sufficient, Capitan. They need your guidance now more than EVER.

Just think about the immoral lessons your W has been teaching them all this time? She has been teaching that adultery is GOOD. She is screwing your kids up with her unhindered immorality. It will take a POWERFUL MESSAGE to overcome the immorality she has taught them. Silence will sure not suffice. The OM is much, much more than a "disliked" individual, he is engaging in an IMMORAL, EVIL ACT with your wife, adultery.

Here is a good Harley article:

Infidelity:
The Lessons Children Learn

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_lesson.html

Hey Capitan - Have you done any G-2 on the counselor? I'd strongly recommend giving the Harleys a call... The last thing you want is some "counselor" that's going to validate your WW's actions...

Semper Fi,

RIF

Dr. Harley is much more qualified and credentialed than any "counselor," and here is what he says:

Hi Captain, I was wondering how your weekend was. I was not able to read MB yesterday. Your family is in my prayers. My God help guide your WW back to you all.

As always, thanks for the support!

If nothing else, I have certainly started some movement... could very well be towards the courthouse, we'll see.

I have DEFINITELY told the kids that what she's doing is wrong and hurts me, etc., but that she still loves them and they should still love her. I can't tell you how much happier I felt seeing that they felt EMPOWERED, rather than in the dark and helpless.

They definitely DO see how wrong it is and the reason I was so careful to avoid initially coloring their perceptions was to let them form their own first opinion so that they could be absolutely certain I was not trying to implant my "agenda" in them, which could later be used against me. As mentioned in the post on the subject, I told them that I agreed with their assessement and offered my take on the right/wrong/morality, etc., of the situation. There is NO doubt in their minds about what's right, what's wrong, and what's in the family's best interest.

Mr G, your point is very well taken. One of the reasons I post here is to be able to explore ALL possible avenues and perspectives. I am NOT looking for people here to agree or disagree, but offer their input and support (if they feel so moved). I am sure that (just as Harley says - OBTW, where does that quote re telling kids come from? SAA?) there are many opinions regarding telling kids and in the end, I did what I thought was right. Their reaction tells me I did the right thing.

Yes, we DO muddy up the truth, and one of the best things this MB has done for me has been to help me get out of the one-sided craziness of her fogbabble. She sounds SO convincing. She IS convinced that the marriage is over and that we're getting a divorce - in fact, she may go that route very soon. However, I now see it for what it IS, not what she SAYS it is.

My share of the "culpability" has never been denied. I've owned up to it, acknowledged it, understand it in all its forms and have truly, fully apologized, and most importantly, changed in both word and deed to WS. I DO know how we got here...I also know that it is the past and NEVER was an excuse for her actions - period.

ML, the article you referred to was one of the first ones I printed out and handed her...it is RIGHT on! I also sent it to all our friends and OM...

Don't know how to talk her into using the Harleys, as their focus is on the marriage and infidelity, rather than child counseling - her only stated reason for agreeing to see anyone. Ideas??

Capitan,



I’m sure you understand that you can’t force her into anything. However, what you can do is to make sure that she understands that the avenue back home is only blocked by her. You can let her know what your beliefs are with regard to family and most importantly with regard to her.

You can let her know that you can still feel and remember the love that you used to share with her, memories of walks, talks and dreams. You can let her know that the cloud that hangs over your marriage has awakened feelings that you have for her that were unfortunately misplaced but never really lost. You can tell her the truth.

As she has given her heart to another she will not likely hear your words. However, with the reality of her affair exposed to the light of the day you have effectively given her the choice to one day return to her husband and children.

Have you watched the movie “Polar Express” with your children? In it the children (and adults) who have lost the spirit of Christmas cannot hear Santa’s sleigh bell ring. It’s just an empty piece of metal with no sound, but to those of pure heart and goodness the bell rings loud and true.

Perhaps you can see the analogy between the sleigh bell and your marriage. You see, you have both forgotten how to cherish the love that bound you so many years ago and the sleigh bell fell silent as it so often does in our hectic lives. In the midst of your current tragedy you have rediscovered the sound of the bell and while you might beg your wife to listen, for her it is just silence.

The reason I tell you this story is that for your wife to return she will need to hear the bell once more and it is important that you do nothing to block the path to her ear. She may one day pick up the bell and ask you what you are listening too. That will be the time for the Harleys. This is also called “Plan A”.

Mr. G