Not sure I follow completely.

I was under the impression that gaslighting was basically her trying to make me feel responsible for the terrible things she's chosen to do.

I don't.

I own my choices that made the marriage less than ideal.. but we didn't have a -bad- marriage.. we just didn't have a great one. I'm working on what I can work on.. so I've got nothing to feel bad about.

Or are you saying she's gaslighting -herself-?

Though I can see the second part of what you're saying.. that she may place a value on what I say.. or what she thinks I'll say.. Probably because I've stopped responding to her emails if they are anything other than kid business.

Oh.. and about Lucas being a BS... I never knew that.

And what I meant to add at the end of the previous post.. where I was talking about not responding to her emails.. I'm thinking that might be another reason she's calling these days rather than emailing.

James - Be very careful with this line of thinking. I am afraid for you to get your hopes up again only to have it not work out. Lets not forget two very important points of interest here.

1) They just got a house together.

2) She is possibly trying to get pregnant by this guy.

Just be careful, James. Do we need to have an OC reminder discussion? Hate to always be the one to point out the bad..but I just don't want you to lose all the ground you have gained.

Remember the holidays are here and she may just be wanting a Christmas with the man with the money instead of a dead beat. Guard your heart at this time. If she is still acting this way after the holidays...then maybe let a little hope in. Better to be safe than sorry, my friend.

Just trying to look out for you.

I have never in my life been bored enough to do laundrey!

That's why she's trying to get you riled up to say see he's an [censored] and he does terrible things to me. Clearly she needs justification for her affair.

I agree with GC however that you still need to very guarded and keep on plan James.

There's a ray of hope but plan for the worst and hope for the ebst is the way to go.

Oh yes.. these two things are in the back of my mind Guided.

And certainly that is where my faith in God is helping.

I view children as gifts from God.. they are little miracles, I don't care what biology class teaches us about the 'science' of it.. it's the creation of life, only God has that power. It's one of the signs I'm looking for that will tell me to truly move on.

The house thing.. well, honestly I'm -thankful- that she just got a house with this guy.. I've been praying for her to get out of the situation where his mommy is cushoning the blows real life will no doubt be dealing with her now as a homeowner. And.. if she should come back.. I've already thought about how to go about 'renting' the property... and know a few people who may be interesetd.. it'd be a great way to bring some income into the M too..

cha ching

Not a choice I'd have made.. but hey, if life gives you nutmeg.. sprinkle it in with cinnamon when you're whipping up the pancake batter.

Thanks for keeping me in check Guided <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I do appreciate it.

As for the laundry.. seriously.. it was the -one- job I gave to her when we moved into our house that she didn't have domestic responsibility for... I'M HAPPY to be doing my own laundry on my time and not being upset when I've got a hamper full of dirty clothes and no clean underwear!

*ahem*

Think happy thoughts.. second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Um...yeah. She is responding exactly as expected. Keep it up. My guess is conflict is thick and getting thicker. If she's pulling this with Plan A, just wait till you go to Plan B. Woo-boy. Oh, but that's right. You won't get to SEE the results. You will have removed yourself from the equation. And that's a verrrrryy good thing.

Speculation, speculation, speculation. Wild and useless. And wrong of posters to encourage.

She's doing this, she's doing that. She's lashing out because of this and that, she's "gaslighting" you (ludicrous, all due respect). Nonsense!

The WW will do what she will do and her reasons for it from one day to another are unknowable, even to her, and some of them are situational, some are part of her personality, some depend on whether or not she's recently urinated. When you engage in speculation all you do is make a fool out of yourself.

This is something very fundamental. Dude, just do what you're going to do regardless of these useless and unreliable guesses about her state of mind.

I think everyone agrees that the wayward is an enigma so perhaps speculating is useless.

No disrespect taken.

I agree that James needs to take care of numero uno and not worry about his WS.

I think many are guilty of thinking about their WS because they predicate hope in certain actions. However, words mean zero when it comes to WS and only actions matter.

On my end the silence is deafening although my father has been incredible at predicting when my WxGF is going to communicate. It's like he has a sixth sense about these things.

Sometimes I wonder if he's Nostradamus reincarnated:)

PM Thanks for the reassurance..

GC.. thanks for the reality check.

I guess really I'm just here trying to understand what's happening. Sure, speculation is just that.. though many here have seen these things several more times than I have, so I welcome the 'educated' guessing.

I see my IC on Thursday and there will probably be more speculation in that session as well. Healthy? Maybe not.. but it does encourage me to keep doing what I'm doing.

Look, the Ice Queen is thawing.. a little at a time. I realize this is a marathon, not a sprint, but I am encouraged with the results, however glacial.

I can say with complete certainty that things are working better for me... and that's what's important right now alongside getting DS home which is glacial in it's own right.

Anyhow.. I'm doing good tonight, many thanks to the encouragement and support of the people here today.. even the people keeping me grounded.

I did call Dad tonight.. apparently he did ask SIL to mention it to WW about his software since she was planning on talking to WW. He laughed when I told him WW said she talked to him or was planning to see him. He told me that if he has computer problems he -knows- who to call and would have called me directly.. and had a beer handy when I got there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I love my FIL.

Thanks to you too Infodude.. I'm honestly not sure what would be better.. silence or having her come along every so often and try to toss the table I'm trying to piece together the puzzle of my life with pieces that don't quite fit right anymore.

I'd almost prefer silence at this point... which tells me I'm almost ready for Plan B.. the letter thing worries me and I feel like MEDC is right.. still thinking about a way to do it that wouldn't hurt me legally.

Well.. got laundry to get started.. going to be a -fun- night. I'll be in and out checking up on folks.

Ahhh... laundry success.

I look good.. I feel good.. got clothes that smell good.

Called to talk to DS last night and if I'm honest with myself was a little let down that WW did not answer. Instead she just passed the phone to DS.. which is ok, and something she's done in the past.. I've just allowed myself to have expectations. Yet another reminder that this speculation is probably not all that constructive. It did help me feel a little better yesterday though.. so I'm glad for that at least. The erratic behavior speaks to conflict.. so I'm letting God turn up the heat and cook her until she's ready. I'm just going to simmer and work on my own juices so that I'm a tasty morsel for the woman in my life, be it WW or someone else when the time comes.. like a good beef stew <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm not sure if it was a result of the expectation or not.. I didn't really allow myself to consider it for long after the phone call, but I had some anxiety again on the trip to bed.. I really just wanted to feel her in my arms last night.. so I prayed instead.. for about 20 minutes. Then I got up and walked around the house for a few.. then sat down, feeling the need for assurances and opened the Bible.. God spoke to me through the Word, promises of personal deliverance and protection from those who oppose those who fear and trust in the Lord.

This morning as I was letting the dog out, I happened to look up towards the moon.. and there it was.. a perfect halo around the moon.. second time I've seen that this week.. I understand the science behind it.. but there is no denying when God casts beautiful scenes in the heavens. I feel Him walking closely with me today, and that gives me strength, peace, and comfort.

I get to see DS tonight.. nothing major planned for tonight, but this weekend we're decorating the house for Christmas!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You crack me up. Hey if laundrey makes you that happy...I got a whole room full you can do. I will trade you dishes for the laundrey.



Oh, James. Don't do this to yourself. Block it from your mind till after the holidays. Please just do this for yourself. You are in just as much danger of falling into the holiday trap as she is. Caution, my friend. A false intention right now would do much more harm than no intention at all. I know it can be lonely and the holidays only make the empty house seem more so...but if you really want to be ready should she come back..you have to be on your guard. Wait for reality...not a dream of the moment.



Ummm...James...How long did you sniff the laundrey? Now I am hungry..thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.



I remember that well. I prayed also. Excellent way to handle it. Just know that if she doesn't come back, that God has an amazing woman waiting for you. One that he has picked out especially for you and I imagine she will be well worth the wait.

My H turned out to be the other person I was waiting for. God had to change him and me. This woman may be in the form of your wife or she may not. Either way, continue to wait and let God lead you where he wants you to be.

I hope you have a good visit with your son. Children have a way of making all the loads we carry seem lighter. We are going to decorate for Christmas this weekend also. I can't wait!

Nope.. no trading dishes for clothes.. nope nope. See, as a BS I've come to recognize these unfair deals from a long way off. You've got a whole houseful of people dirtying laundry.. mine? It's me, a 12 year old girl, and a dog.. and the dishes don't dirty as often as they used to because I'm not making the -huge- dinners for a family of 5 anymore. Dishes are a cinch.

Thanks Guided.. but I'll keep my laundry :P.. and my dishes <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


I'm going to try to block it out for the holidays but it's very difficult.. if the holiday is having these kinds of affects on me.. what must it be doing to her?

I'll take things as they come along and deal with them the best way I can.. I'm not interested in false recoveries. I don't think my emotional well being could handle it at this point.. I'm still fragile.. and vulnerable.. I know it. Probably take some 2x4's for this, but I actually caught myself flirting with a coworker this morning in the break room. (not the one I've been talking to).. she's outgoing, funny, smart, closer to my age but still younger than me.. I thought it was innocent at the time, but didn't realize until afterwards that I was 'turning on the charm' (I suppose it's easy when she's holding creme filled doughnuts).. I've got to stop doing that until I'm healed though.. she doesn't know about my sitch and may think I'm 'safe' because I still wear my ring.. I'd definitely go out with her (and would probably have a really good shot) after this is all over though, if WW doesn't change her tune.. *sigh*.. I just want someone to love.. thank God I have an IC appointment tomorrow night.

I'm sure I'll have a blast with DS tonight.. got Transformers on DVD from Blockbuster so we'll probably do a bit of a movie night after dinner.. I'll make up some of my hand popped popcorn.. I use this special mix of salts in with the popcorn oil that makes it taste -better- than movie theater popcorn.. if that's at all possible.

Still hungry?

Well, hmmm. You may have been paying too much attention around here. Darn it. Fine, keep your dishes and laundrey.



Oh yeah. Big 2x4. You are still married...remember. Married is married. Don't stoop to your WW's level. Relationships started like this never work. How could she ever trust you if you started trying to get her while you were still married? You need to stop until you are divorced and have taken some time. Don't let her be a rebound that you will regret and that will ultimitely hurt her.

And don't blame it on the doughnuts either. Check where your head is at, James. Flirting with her was very inappropriate.



Then next time you need to tell her you think she is very nice, but that you are still married and don't want to lead her on. Haven't you learned there is no safety in rings. They only mean as much as the meaning someone puts into them. My H wore his ring thru most of his A. We don't even wear them now because I refuse to let him wear the old one. It just serves of a reminder to me of how little our vows meant to him. We are going to get new ones with our tax check this year. A ring is mearly a symbol..not a force field. I don't care what yoda says.



This thought is a trap. You don't want someone...you want the right someone. Be careful of empty needs even in yourself. They are empty because you are not in a position right now to fill them.

You love your wife, but she does not exsist right now. Focus on loving yourself. If you love yourself....than in return you can show the best kind of love to someone else. LA is showing me this.



Focus on that. One day at a time. Looking too far into the future creates impatience and unrealistic longings. Boy, do I know.



All I have to say on that one is.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />!

Ok.. I deserved the whaps.

Yes, I am acutely aware that I am still married.. and no, it didn't get to a point where I think I need to apologize to her, and I certainly wasn't leading anyone on or asking for dates or anything. But yeah.. I did allow my joking around with her to go to an inappropriate level. I'll keep myself in better check next time.

Yes.. I know that wanting 'someone' anyone to love is an empty need.. but it's still something that I need to acknowledge to myself that I feel. Even if that acknowledgement comes as a sign to me that I'm not -ready- for another relationship with anyone but my wife.. not even close. I'm keeping that in mind too.

Yeah.. got to keep focusing on today. Honestly it's when I look to the future is where I get in trouble. I have two possible futures in front of me.. so I'm kind of seeing one out of each eye.. a future without her, and a future with her.. both of them are frightening in their own right.. but sometimes I get to thinking that a future without her might be a little brighter.. it might be the shinier prize, but it's not the one I want.. not right now at least.

What.. don't like popcorn?

Well I am glad you are able to identify when you are going in the wrong direction. Definitaly a step forward. Just wrap caution tape around yourself for awhile. Being honest with yourself is always the hardest kind of honesty. You are way ahead of me in that department. Still kinda wavering in the fantasy as LA calls it.

I just don't want you to lose all that you have gained so far. Having a plan for two different futures is a very smart idea. I have one myself should things with my H go south. I learned the first time that you should always have a backup plan. Very smart. Be careful, however, not to intentionally lead yourself down one road or the other. Wait to be led. Patience and calm. It's hard for God to give you the answers you are looking for if you don't stop to wait for the answer.

Yes, I like popcorn. Just doubting there is anything better than movie popcorn. Thats all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

You're right GC. Thanks for gentle reminder. LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh I have no delusions about the fact that I can be just as foggy as my WW right now.

Denial of what IS.. is a constant struggle for me right now. Possibly why I'm so aware of where I'm stepping wrongly.. even as I post some of these things.. the speculations and such.. I know it is not healthy for me to do, and it ultimately gets me nowhere.. but sometimes you have to spin your wheels a bit before you acknowledge you're stuck and take the proper actions to get yourself out... doesn't make a lot of sense, but I've just about given up on the notion that life is supposed to be something you can make sense of.. and if it was, there'd be no point in living it.

As for the popcorn thing.. feh I say to you.

or in continuing the Star Wars vulgate: I find your lack of faith.. disturbing.

GC is right...

But between you and me PM.. she is responding exactly as expected. Completely unpredictable.. sugary one minute, nasty the next.. she's acting like a Wayward. She's not special or unique in her reactions.. the plans work.. shouldn't come as a suprise.

And yeah.. between the two of you, the message is really the same (even if PM's response was a little more encouraging.. even though GC's is probably more grounded) I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing.. until it is time to turn off the Jamesus... when that time comes, I'll be ready.

(Especially about popcorn) Heh.

At least you are able to recognise this in yourself. Thats very important.



Amen.

GC is correct. To speculate another persons thinking often leads to the wrong conclusions (see LA..I am getting it!) One of the hardest things I am having to correct is assuming that I know what my H is thinking and feeling. You are doing a good job of just letting things come as they may. Keep it up.



maybe but long and hard is the way leading up to the light. what movie is that from MR. Smartypants. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

And may the force be with you.

K I am not a huge star wars fan...so that is about the end of my quotes from there. Although I do own all the movies...go figure.