2long

I read the article you linked to James. Very insightful...

Turns out I'm a renter (see Froz's thread) AND a rescuer. Lord, do I have some work do! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the link!

Keeping you and your little ones in my prayers James!

Smartie

Jamesus:

Really, my point was not that you shouldn't pray for your WW (I would, if I were a praying man). My point was that you should not be trying 2 fix her, and that it isn't all that obvious that your motives for praying for the things you're praying for are not based on a DJ.

By all means, pray for her. But pray for her health and enlightenment, and let her learn from her current experiences however it's truly best, or "meant" for her 2 learn, not the way you or we might think she should, because we know better.

Also, hope but don't expect.

-ol' 2long

Heh.. well, interesting where this has gotten.

I pray to God to work in her life.. I pray with the desire in my heart to reunite this family. Now I certainly understand that if the reconciliation is not God's will.. then it will not happen. If it is His will.. nothing and noone can deny the power of God. Yes, my wife has free will to make her choice to stay in the choices she has made.. but I pray for her to be the Godly woman I knew when we married and receive His blessings.

I pray that God's will be done in our lives, and resign myself to -my- walk with God, knowing that by walking closer with Him, all things will turn out for the best ultimately in my life.

Honestly.. my heart's desire is to restore my family. I just want another chance to make things right in my marriage. I know where I've screwed up.. but at the same time, I know that God is at work in my WW's life to give her the opportunities to learn and grow as well. If she chooses to take those opportunities I have faith that our family will be better off. If she does not.. then this cycle in her life, and now, my children's lives will continue.

I don't think it's a DJ to say that what she is doing is adultery. I don't think it's a DJ to say that what she is doing is detremental to the well being of our children. That is -MY- truth. I do not agree with what she is doing.. does my disagreement make it sin? No.. but according to the Word, it is sin.. that's not my judgement to make, and it isn't my place to punish.. that is God's alone. As a Godly man I pray for her to become free of the bondage of sin so that she may walk closely with God.

I simply pray for the best for my family.. I -believe- that the best is an intact family with love for eachother. I believe that God will do what is best for us, even if it is not according to my desires.

I am allowing God to work in my life, and am becoming a better man as a result. I'm not going to apologize for praying that my wife receives the same blessing.. and I won't apologize for praying that God moves to bring us together as we draw closer to Him.

Now.. all that being said, the other part of my walk with God is forgiveness. I stand for my marriage because it is a sacrement to God, blessed by God in His church, and our vows were as much promises to Him as they were to eachother. I will forgive because I promised her, and I promised God that in good times and bad.. for better or worse I would be at her side. She is one flesh, one spirit joined with me. What God has joined, let no man tear apart.

I believe these things.. I don't feel it makes me judgemental of her. I am not condemning her for her actions, that is not my place. I stand willing to forgive her for the pain she has caused me, and our children.. I stand willing to love her for the rest of my life as I promised her.. I stand ready to be as close as I can be to the man she desires me to be.

If she chooses it.

I -do- acknowledge her will at work here as well... her choice.. her consequences or blessings to face on her own.

I didn't want to get to this conversation really.. This is my personal faith, my walk with God. My wife actually brought me to this faith, and the strong belief in forgivness and reconciliation both with God and eachother.. she brought me into it through our marriage.. and she returned me to it through our separation and her adultery. For that, I shall always be grateful for the part she has played in my life.

I do not believe it is wrong to petition the Lord with the desires of my heart.. for He already knows them.

Thanks for stopping in Smartiepants.. I appreciate the prayers <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm obviously praying for all the others standing to restore their marriage as well.. Hope you are doing well <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I to am a Renter.. working to recover that too.

Jamesus

Your next to last post about prayer and your WW brought tears to my eyes (and I am not a crying' female). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I too pray for my WH--and not that he comes back to the M. As it is now he is already gone and I accept that reality every morning when I awaken and every night before I sleep.

My prayer is that he turn back to God, to the person he was (or struggled to be) before the A and all the hardening of his heart that came with that decision and all the destruction that came with it. I don't hold to the expectation that for him turning back to God = turning back to our M. Maybe, in the end, it will be something different...

I remember our wedding Mass--it was one of the most beautiful days in my life (second only to my baptism and confirmation in the Church. I converted to Catholicism in college). I remember as I stood before God, our families and friends and my WH promsing myself to him and again to Christ with each other...that my heart was full of joy and wonder (and even a little fear at what I was committing myself to--to spend the rest of my natural life with one person. A wise friend told me later that fear on that day was a good thing because it showed I had a sense of what I was signing up for. LOL!!)

And now my heart is broken--as much for feeling like I've broken my promise to God as I move closer to divorce as it is for the loss of my marriage. But I also pray for forgiveness, for growth and for understanding. Every day.

You just put it so much better than me...

Smartie

I really don't want Wonderboy at my house..

"That boy you're seeing is not welcome in my house, on my stoop, or in my driveway. See to it he's aware. I don't want to see him."

Do not bother calling him "affair partner" or giving him any other adultery-based title. And ignore any petulant response. It's not a negotiation.

Want to hear something funny, James? To this day I have no idea what my ex wife's affair partner looks like, except that he probably looks something like his children, who do not resemble their mother. I kept that guy's face out of my line of sight from the beginning and I am still glad for it.

GC

Hey Smartiepants.. I too have struggled with the broken promises, particularly as I have turned back to the comfort and shelter that God has provided me in this chapter of my life.

I should probably start by saying that I am not 'officially' Catholic. I was born and raised Baptist, baptised in the 6th grade.. and pretty much abandoned my faith as it were in High School, and studied all kinds of world religions from an academic standpoint until I met my wife. She was going through a period in her life where she had turned back to God.. most likely influence of her older sister in her life.

Because I was not Catholic, we had -so- much work.. classes, Pre Cana, a weekend retreat, meetings with the priest, sponsor couple, marriage counseling etc before we ever said 'I do'.. I'm not typically a crying type guy either.. but my heart was in my throat and tears on my cheek as I watched the most beautiful creature I've ever seen walk towards me on her dad's arm that day.. I could feel God's hand upon us.

Please remember.. we are the ones who stood for our promise Smartie.. we are the ones who believe in those promises. We are the ones upholding the sacrement, and the covenant we made with Him, and our spouse.

It took my breath away when my wife told me a week after she left 'Those promises haven't meant anything to me for a long time.' God allows for us to move on as the betrayed ones.. but I believe He will look upon our suffering and our perseverance and our rewards for being faithful not only to our spouses, but to Him.. whether in the living world, or later.

My heart too, is broken.. and I don't think even WW can fix it.. this is a job for God to handle. So I know I'm in good hands, he's the Great Physician afterall right?

The funny part of all of this? The reason I am staying Catholic is also because of a promise I made to God. I swore on my wedding day.. part of all of it was that we would raise Godly children in the Catholic Church... from that moment on, as far as I was concerned.. I was Catholic.. RCIA or not... speaking of, I'm going to be seeking a sponsor after Easter.

--------------

GC - Probably a good suggestion there.. something I may take up on. I'll consider it more.. I may not say anything at this point.. seems kinda pointless as was pointed out earlier seeing as he's probably going to be a live-in boyfriend until the D is final.. I'd bet she won't wait a week until she's in front of a JOP.. I almost feel sorry for the kid...

Almost.

OMG James!! You joining the Church officially, what a wonderful Easter blessing.

It may sound strange but when I was baptized and confirmed in the Church, it was at Easter Vigil Mass. It was close to midnight and as walked to the alter to be baptized, the church was filled with people holding candles, supporting me in the faith as I contiuned my journey with Christ. It took my breath away--I could feel the love of God in those moments becaues I was surrounded by love. In fact, a good friend of mine (who was a cradle Catholic) ran out into the middle of aisle as I walked, with tears in her eyes and hugged me so tight...the whole church applauded!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You being the person you are--the experience will be one you never forget.

You are so right--God will reward us. We will rise with Him--again and again...

Also, it's funny how you say you remain in the Church because of the promise you made to God regarding your children.

A few months ago, I was thinking about leaving the Catholic church and going back to the Protestant side--Episcopalian actually. It was so hard to go the church where WH and I spent nearly every Sunday and I thought "How can I stay here where it said my marriage is still intact in the eyes of God while my WH lives with OW?"

But then I remembered that Easter Vigil years ago, and my baptism and my promises, and our wedding, and all the priests that I'd known and admired, and all the Advents and Lents and Easters and all and all...I remembered that God's ways are not my ways.

And I knew I had to stay. So stay I did. And am.

Still haven't figured out what to do if I get remarried though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />. But I'll cross bridge (which is far off in the distance) when I get to it!!

I'm so glad you stayed Smartie.

Fortunately for me, in my town I have a choice of two Churches. I do not attend the church we married in.. honestly it's a converted office building, and while they did a very nice job on the conversion, the place I go now is a Church.. You can't help but feel the presence of God as you walk through the doors. It's in kind of a rough part of town, but that is -where- a Church needs to be.. a shining beacon to all who surround. That really sunk in with me last Sunday as we took a walk around the neighborhood after Mass.

Well.. I figure I'll give it until Easter.. I'd -really- like for WW to sponsor me for RCIA, so that it could be something we go through together and as a couple grow closer to God. I think it'd be an -amazing- recovery aid. If not, I'll talk to SIL who sponsored her first RCIA candidate this year.. telling me that it was my return to the faith that inspired her to do it. That made me feel pretty good. I hope the experience is very rewarding for her as well.

The story about the Easter Vigil is a beautiful one.. thank you so much for sharing that. I'm sure it will have a profound impact on me as well.

-----------------------

In other news

The exchange last night went uneventfully.. I made a poke at light conversation as I put DS's jacket on. Gave her the flyer from DS's daycare about the Christmas program. WW got a sour look on her face as she looked it over.. it's on a Friday.. -my- Friday with him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Not sure if it was that, or that I'd now know about when his program was. Doesn't matter though.. I'll be taking my DS on the 14th to his program.. and already found out through the school website that DSD's program is on the 18th.. I'm going to be there. Hey.. it's open to the public right? I don't need WW's permission to come support a little girl I love.

DD's program is the following night which is a Wednesday.. so I'm not going to miss a thing.. and I'll get to see DS through each of them.

Anyhow.. the limited poke at casual conversation was me asking how she was doing as I put on DS's coat.. she shrugged and said she was alright, and I noted that she looked cold.. she didn't respond.. I had to turn away as I about cracked a smile as the irony of the Ice Queen being cold crossed my mind... hugged DS and gave him a kiss, told him I love him I'd see him on Friday and sent him off.

Didn't trigger.. didn't -feel- anything about it, no dissapointment.. Just sat down and tuned out the world for the night.

Ok... another contact from WW.

She emails today telling me that she's going to be off work tomorrow and that I need to pick up DS at the house.

Um.. It has been made clear I'm not welcome at the house.

I was assaulted last time I went to that house.

Here's the response I'm considering:

WW,

I gave my word to CoWorker that because of the problems it was causing between her and her husband on 09/09 that I would not go to the house anymore as it was clear that I was not welcome. I have every intention of honoring that promise to the owners of that property.

Would it be possible to meet somewhere to do the exchange at 4:00? If not how about you, me, and the kids meet for dinner at XXXXX, and I'll take DS, and DSD too if she'd like to come after.

I hope you enjoy your day off, please give love, hugs, and kisses to DSD and DS for Daddy.

Jamesus

Alternately.. DSD ought to be there at the house.. might be a good chance to see her..

I dunno..

This is the type of crap that I'm sure pisses BSs off. I don't knwo the answer to this one, but when she askes you to come over in defiance of what you said and you were assaulted that makes me wonder what planet these Wayards come from.

Men are Mars Women are from Venus and Waywards are from Uranus.

Uranus? Or their own? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

well aren't you two boys just hysterical <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Seriously they do make you wonder sometimes.

I would think your invitation might go one of two ways. Either she agrees and you get your hopes up (bad for you) or she doesn't and it further solidifies her idea that you are just trying to make her unhappy by causing friction between her and OM (bad for you).

I don't know about that one. You could always use the excuse you wish to discuss Christmas visitation plans and would like the kids input. Not sure. Wait for someone with more experience on this.

Definitaly would not go to the house to pick him up. At the very least agree to meet somewhere.

I dunno.. maybe I should just suck it up and go pick him up there.

I've thought about this response as well:

WW,

Good to hear from you, how'd you luck out with a Friday off? Hope you enjoy it. I'll be by after work to pick up DS, thanks for letting me know about the change of plans. The kids and I are going to be decorating the house for Christmas this weekend, and I'd sure love to have DSD around to help us out, should be fun.

Have a great day and give DSD and DS kisses and hugs from Daddy tonight!

James

Another option I suppose.. if I were to not make an issue of going to that house.. would be to simply not respond at all, and just show up.

I think you should reply as she is asking about plans for the kids and not just emailing you for nothing.

I am voting for email response number two. I would keep her out of it and just make it about the kids. I like that plan.

Thanks Guided..

So you think I should take out the first part of it? The intention there is to keep things lighthearted and such, and also show that I'm interested and care about her/putting her first (at the beginning of the email).

Putting her first was one of the big things for her when she left.. didn't feel like she came first.

I dunno.. I could see the less warm response of just:

WW,

I'll be by after work to pick up DS, thanks for letting me know about the change of plans. The kids and I are going to be decorating the house for Christmas this weekend, and I'd sure love to have DSD around to help us out, should be fun.

Have a great day and give DSD and DS kisses and hugs from Daddy tonight!

James

I dunno if it will help, but here is the email she sent me:


James,


DS will not be going to daycare tomorrow as I will be off of work and do not see a need to take him to daycare when I will be home. You will need to pick DS up at the house.



WW