Jmaes, I know how you feel.

It all seems surreal. Watching football or doijng activities, runnign errands all seem so empty. It's almost like we do these things to waste time in anticipation of getting to that one meaningful encounter or moment that turns everything around. Problerm is like you said we have no inkling nor idea when that moment will happen or if it will happen.

That's why everyone says work on those thinsg you can control. As those we love must see the light without interference and choose to return.

It's funny she wanted to set up a time to see me and yet now that I reach to talk to her she's not talking back to me.

Oh the stupidity of humans. Love should be so much easier and less screwed up.

I hear what you're saying Infodude.. I certainly feel that many of the activities I used to do have much less meaning to me.. even the activities I used to do without her.

I think I'm still thinking about her way too much.. focusing too much attention on her, but at least when I do think of her, I turn to God and pray for Him to reach her. I think that's the best I can do right now. I'm still having spans of time where I agonize about the situation.. and take some small comfort in knowing that God is in control, not me.. there's nothing I can do about it right now other than to work on me, and do what I can for my children.

My weekend wasn't all bad guys.. don't get me wrong. Saturday I actually spent most of the afternoon laughing and having fun. DD had one of her friends over, so they went outside to play in the snow.. I was feeling kind of down and depressed, so I decided I'd turn on the TV and take a nap on the couch.. about an hour into it I decided it'd be better to go out and join them.

They were building a snow fort, and I immediately fell under snowball attack.. I tell you, 12 and 13 year olds are -devious- and vicious when united against adults.. then another little girl from across the street came over and we decided to split into teams and build two forts.. I tought them to use buckets and boxes to build 'bricks' out of snow to make sturdy forts.. and then my team (DD's friend and I vs DD and the little girl across the street) stockpiled snowballs behind our walls.. as did they.. and we had a blast flinging snow at eachother for about 2 hours..

My mom pointed out something to me at dinner that night.. that never even crossed my mind until she said something.. the other two little girls.. have never had a dad in their lives.. and how amazing she thought it was that I just took them in and did 'dad' things with them... DD's friend has always been kind of oddly attached to me.. or so I thought.. but now I'm starting to figure out why.. I've always treated her just like one of the family.. and I think she -kinda- looks at me as the male role model in her life. (no worries guys.. her mom and I would -never- work.. don't start down that road.. she and I don't even talk other than at school events).

It made me feel good to sit and think about it though.. but then my thoughts turned to DSD.. I miss my baby girl.. I miss her laugh.. the crazy eyes she makes when she's being silly.. the way she used curl up on my lap and tucks into my arm with her head on my shoulder.. I miss hearing her beautiful tiny little voice saying 'I love you daddy..'

I pray that somehow God wraps her up in his hands and protects her from the pain... I pray He watches over her and keeps her from learning and believing that -this- is how life should be.. I know she is hurting.. I pray she keeps God close to her..

Starting this week.. my days start outnumbering hers until the end of the year.. including the partial days for both of us it looks like 15 for me to her 7.. I hope his absence gives her a taste of how heartbreaking this is and the effect this has on our children.. She's deep.. deep deep into the A though.. Only God can reach her now.. nothing I say or do will have any effect.. and now that the IL's have been cut off.. she's on her own to face the truth.. and she may never see it.

Keep me in your prayers people.. I don't feel -weak- today.. but at the same time, I don't feel strong either.

I'm just getting through the day at this point... trying not to let myself hop on the ride.. trying to just focus on right now.

It's normal to think about her. If you didn't I'd be worried because that would mean you're a psychopath or sociopath.

I think about my WxGF all the time.

It's very hard to jsut turn yourself off.

I can't imagine what it what it would be like be married with kids. So while I can udnerstand a lot of what you're going through I can't see it all.

I'm glad you're helping others James. That's the best way to make use of your time. Kids need role models and there are too many bad influences in the world. We all need more people who can be a positive influence.

I think that's the hangup.. it's very hard just to turn yourself off.

What is very hard is to stop caring so much about her welfare and the continuing poor judgement she is showing with her life. I picture her spiraling down and getting farther and farther from where I'm -capable- of rescuing her should she reach for my hand.

I also think that I'm honestly afraid that she may actually be happy.. I'm afraid that she just might be the type of person that requires all of this pain for everyone else in her life, in order for her to be happy.. damn what anyone else says or thinks.. she's got her own path to happiness.. and of course.. if -she- is happy.. the kids are better off right?..

Right..

It's frustrating to think about because it makes no sense.. and it makes no sense because the only thing that -does- make sense is to honor your promises.. do what it takes to make the family you have work.. not to destroy and abandon everything you once claimed to care about and try to replace it.. all that hard work.. and with 97% of relationships like this failing.. what will it ultimately have been for?

I can't rescue her from the consequences of her choices.. I've done my best just to keep the door open and my hand held out for her to take..

She's going to have to go through this for herself.. God, I pray will hasten the day when she can see clearly through the lies she's telling herself.. I pray that it comes soon enough for me to still have something left in the tank for her.

Here's the thing James,

As you know affairs are about immediate gratification. As a result she continues to construct a fantasy world where she can justify the immediate gratification.

An affair feeds on itself. She feels terribly guilty she feels so ashamed that perhaps she feels she can never be forgiven. As a result she says I must continue this because it makes me happy and I don't have to deal with the reprocussions and I don't have to face my issues.

So she has a false happiness which she fills with the A. The kids aren't better off long term. Clearly they're better off without her crazy twisted thinking.

Agreed affairs=stupidity. They resolve nothing and only create more problems. The thing is even if somehow an affair duo fits into that 3 % there's still 75-90% chance that the new union fails.

It's akin to someone playing the lottery with the delusion that they'll win. While someone does win you have a better chance of being struck by lightining. The odds are ridiculously slanted towards the A ending. The problem is the odds are against the marriage reconciling, but thankfully the odds are 35/65 which is a whole ****** of a lot better than waiting for your numbers to come up for the Powerball.

Hmm.. playing the numbers game, you make a very valid point.

Wish I could put more stock in your assertment about what she's feeling.

I also think that the pressure of the D and the rammifications of her and I having any kind of 'talk' while a custody dispute is in the works.. is probably prohibitive to her expressing any regret about her decision.

It's also prohibitive for me to try and do some of the things that would make my stand for our marriage more effective.

Sad.. but that's what -is-.. and so I'm dealing with that.

Honestly.. a prime time for me to go into Plan B would have been about a week ago.. when FIL and SIL pretty much severed ties as well..

She's being nice to me.. which worries me that I'm being relegated to the 'coparent' role.. and making her feel less guilty about what she's doing... not sure, but I'm starting to wonder. Either that or she's busy being mad at FIL and SIL.. and just making nice so she doesn't have to deal with me being mad at her too..

I think the 'warmth' of my plan A needs to chill a bit.. pure business.. no 'how's it going' when she answers the phone... I may withdraw more and unless she initiates a conversation (while still in Plan A).. just stick to 'Hi' when she answers the phone and wait for her to hand it off to DS.

Well I've always been a numbers guy, James.

Granted the numbers here are certainly flawed because who admits they are having an affair?

Even still I know it's hard to put stock in numbers when it comes to feelings. How do you quantify something that is subjective? I don't want to go John Nash on you and discuss probabilities based algorythmic assumptions or statistical outlays and outliers because it's boring and does nothing to address the bottomline issue: your wife is wayward and you're miserable as a result.

It seems that everyone is with you so either she'll alienate all her close ties, or more likely she'll come to her senses and realize that while an A may give her temporary happiness it's not worth her family.

It's tricky to figure out what it all means. Nice usually means I want something from you, but then again as GC would say you can assume nothing as waywards do not make sense.

James,

I SAW first hand yesterday the work of the G-d and it was amazing.

You and I walk the same path these days and we just have to TRUST G-d because we DON'T know what is happening on the other side of the street.

All we can do is keep praying and growing and becoming the best we can be. FOR OURSELVES.

Unfortunately Infodude.. I think she's taking the route of alienating all her close ties..

Will that last? Probably not.. but I'd say the liklihood of her family coming to acceptance with her relationship with Wonderboy is much higher than her liklihood of giving him up because it's 'costing' her too much..

Sad.. but true.

Now.. while the IL's will probably accept her back regardless of whether or not she continues with the D.. the fact will remain.. and I believe in the IL's this much.. that they will never support that decision.. even though they will still be there and support her.

That's the part she doesn't realize... or acknowledge yet.. is that while none of the people who truly care about her support this decision.. we all want to be there to love and support -her-..

Sad again.. but true.

SG.. you're so good at keeping me back on focus.

Yes.. I too can see God at work..

I also understand that His timing will be perfect, and His will is what is important here, not mine.

I'm still getting encouragement from the Word.. and am continuing my fervent requests and prayers for my wife and children.. I know that God is listening. He is giving me the peace and strength to keep going.. and the understanding of the things that were making me a 'renter' and also keeping me from being the best husband I could be.

I'm still working on those things and have come to some resolutions within myself that I -wish- I could share with WW.. but I'm sure to her it would be seen as 'barganing' to try and get her to come home.. when in truth I only seek forgiveness for being so closed minded to some of her desires, wants, reasons, and needs.. I know where I screwed up.. things she was trying to tell me.. and I just didn't listen.. even though I heard the words.

What I am getting to glimpse today is who I HAVE become since this whole ordeal started.

A loving wife and mother who has a strong relationship with the most important being of all - G-D. Someone who doesn't carry anger inside of her and KNOWS that she is a woman a G-d and continues to become that each day.

G-d is working hard on you and me and we need to suit up and show up for all his hard efforts on his behalf.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Nice game for the Colts yesterday,

James,

How close is your WW to her family? Did she have a close relationship with them? Were there any major problems?

There could be some Family of Origin (FOO) issues.

Chin up, James as I have to tell myself a million times a day I can only control me. The same goes for you.

We're all operating in the dark looking for something we can't see.

Well for the time being things are good from the standpoint that there's pressure on her and she can't rely on anyone but Wonderboy which puts a tremendous strain on the relationship.

I'm starting to get those glimpses to..

Of course.. others noticing it is helping me to see that it really is making a difference. I almost wonder if WW is noticing it too.. ahh.. not down that road again.. must stop myself from that self destructive thinking..

My changes are not -for- her so much as they are for me to become a better man. It's her choice.. the ball is in her court if she wants to benefit from those changes.. or to allow someone else to.

I'm the prize.. a successful marriage is the prize.. our children's happiness and an intact family for them is the prize.. a closer walk with God is the prize..

I simply pray to God to continue working the circumstances in her life to weigh upon her so that she comes closer to him, and to the covenant marriage He created with us.

What I am showing her is a man who is no longer begging or needy.. a man who is living his life without her.. a man who has his children as his priority.. a man who, while obviously hurt by her decision, still cares for her and is concerned about her welfare.

The last part though does concern me a little.. perhaps I am showing -too much- of that person. That part still needs to get dialed back a bit.

I know that I still have the strength to love her through this. I believe that strength is coming from God.. if my stand was not His will, then I'm certain that I would have been led to walk away by now.

I know that acceptance of what -is- has to come next.. but I also realize that I do not have to endorse it either.. I feel that there is a fine line here in how to show her that I've accepted the reality of the situation.. but do not endorse it... perhaps that's part of the point the PBL drives home.

I think Plan B needs to be in my near future.. but it's a difficult prospect with all the legal stuff going on. I don't think I can effectively do the intermediary thing.. so the effect of isolating me from emails and messages that may trigger me will not be so good.. but I think I can effectively ignore the negative stuff.. focus on business at hand and go about my life...

I think that's the 'modified' part of the Harley recommended Modified Plan B.. the intermediary.

I think the letter is still needed.. it gives her the way home. I think the NC unless it is an absolute emergency is also needed.

Unfortunately I'm not sure that is the 'dramatic' change that it would take to make Plan B successful.

I might run some ideas past my IC on Thursday.. see what she recommends. I imagine I'll be told to continue doing what I'm doing as it seems to be having the effect of her engaging me at least by phone and being pleasant.

I still worry though that I'm validating her by being nice about things.. giving her the impression that things will be ok between us with this going on...

I'm still considering my PBL.. and will run it past everyone here once I have it all in order.. I don't think it's going to be a 'classic' one.. copied and modified from someone else.. I think this is going to have to come from me.. and come from my heart.

I think the head and heart are pretty close to being in synch at this point.. maybe if I can get through this month with the Plan A.. and once new years hits.. go dark.

Infodude..

As far as her dad and older sister in particular goes (the two she's having problems with).. they were about the closest three people I've ever known.

Her dad has always been her hero for all that he went through to raise his girls..

Her sister has always been her idol.. she's patterned much of her life and her 'goals' around her sister's life.

until now.

Her Dad and Sister and her have had problems in the past.. but they always work through it in time.. I don't see this as being any different.. in time... but also, circumstances had to change in order for their reconciliation.. I don't expect it'll be different here either.. I imagine she's going to have to give up Wonderboy and his family before things improve with her, Dad, and SIL..

Maybe not.. she could just get pregnant like she wants to and the baby will reunite them..

Ahhh.. impossible to see, the future is.

Hmm interesting ...

They key I suppose is to keep in contact with the FIL and SIL without it seeming to your WW that you are exerting pressure on them.

They're the key to this thing I think. Turning away from your two closest family members may be easy to do for a short period but over the long haul it's difficult to do.

The baby thing is strange as she already has three. I wodner if wonderboy wants to or is ready to deal with kids. Kids tend to spoil the fun.

As Mimi would say, this is YOUR PLAN and it's all about you becoming the very best YOU ARE.

Our WS are lost in a dangerous fog and are complete aliens. We are trying to figure out what they are DOING, but we CAN'T because we aren't capable of thinking that way. I am just beginning to realize how sick he truly is.

This is SO not about us. This is about THEM and their walk with G-d. We need to led G-d work in them what he wants to.

Like he is working in us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hard lesson but true.

I agree that it would have been an "effective" time 2 go 2 plan B. But you didn't and here you are. It is what it is.


Of course you are. She needs this 2 go the way she imagines it in order 2 sustain her fantasy world - lock, stock and barrel. So what? You be "nice" 2 her (really, continue your plan A) because it's the right thing 2 do for you and your family. Then, when you're ready, you go 2 plan B.


Certainly. So what? It doesn't change what you should do.


Absolutely. Again, she's mad at her family because they told her 2 do something she doesn't want 2 do. They didn't agree with her fantasy world view, so she's mad at them. You, on the other hand, are being kind 2 her - in spite of what she's doing 2 you. She thinks she can get approval from you, because you're not telling her what she's doing is wrong like her parents are. That doesn't mean you're enabling her - you aren't. But it does mean that she's hoping you are.

Which is why plan B, probably soon, will be in order. Let her feel secure with you "in the wings" for a bit more, then kindly, and lovingly, tell her that you aren't - via a GOOD plan B letter.


I think this is okay. But it would be okay 2 continue the way you're going, 2, until you go 2 plan B.

-ol' 2long

Actually she has 2.. DSD and DS... DD12 is my daughter from a previous relationship..

Blended family.. her 2nd marriage.. we lived together prior to marriage.. we've got several strikes against success.. but you know what... I'm still trying. Just too hard headed to quit I guess.

I still believe this marriage is God's marriage.. and that He wants for us to succeed.. and that He is working to make that happen.. perhaps our circumstances will culminate in our collectively returning to Him.. I can only hope.. and what a wonderful message to be able to pass on to our children that would be.. that God has worked such miracles in our lives and theirs.

Infodude.. I plan to keep in contact with FIL and SIL.. right now I'm supporting -them-.. rather than the other way around.. I'm just trying to be there for them as they struggle through these issues with WW.. I've been giving them the reassurances many here have given me.. don't take it personally.. yes I know it was a personal attack, but she has to be this way right now in order to be able to justify to herself what she is doing.. she has to cast you as judgmental and in her mind -you- have to be in the wrong because well.. -somebody- has to be wrong here and it certainly isn't her... etc etc.. that things will be different with her once things crumble with Wonderboy.. however long that takes.

I liked Dad's comment the other day.. he said 'James.. In all my years I've never met a man I've come to respect so much as you through all this.. I certainly don't think I could still be there for my wife if she'd done to me what WW is doing to you.. I'll always admire you for the kind of man you are. But for my part.. I've been here for her for 27 years.. and I'll be around a damn sight longer than Wonderboy will.. that's for sure.'

He's a stubborn dude too.. but for him to say that about me really hit home.. I don't think I'm going to lose his support any time soon... but then again, I also realize that him being there for -her- doesn't mean he's there for me any less... that's -her- issue to work out.

2long... -thank you-...

yeah.. you took -my- words and put them into their proper context.. but I wasn't seeing the pitch all the way through.. you're a godsend...

Strategically Plan A for a few more weeks.. I think there may be some effective opportunities during the time where I have DS over the 9 straight days.. plus I still have a chance of getting to personally deliver DSD's Christmas presents... -then- go dark.. maybe with a Happy New Years wish.. how 'bout them apples?

Best thing you can do is support FIL and SIL and not the otehr way around. What FIL said speaks volumes and you can better believe he's behind you because you're handling evrything with class and dignity