Well, I talked to the teacher...Os has detention for two days...she seems to think that he's being influenced by the little people that he's hanging around...wanting to be like them...

I let him slide the last time I got a call which was a few weeks ago...well, HE'S IN FOR IT now...already mapped out my plan and Momma's going to be on him like white on RICE!!!

Starting TODAY!!!

We did homework last night and he said that was ALL that he had, well, guess what, he didn't do ALL of it!! According to the teacher!!

GROUNDED!!! AND I TMed POWS with the news b/c it's a co-parenting issue!

So much I'd do differently now.. but the real question for me.. is would -she- have done things differently?

Probably. Many WWs who fight to get divorced regret what they've done but don't see any way to undo it and resent people who believe that one exists.

I remember reading an interview with a woman who'd cheated, divorced her husband, married her affair partner, and then divorced him years later (a common trajectory). The interviewer asked her, "Do you ever regret the things you did?" The woman replied, "There was never a time when I didn't regret the things I did."

They regret it, but it doesn't matter. They've passed a point of no return. No matter who is willing to forgive them they are not built to accept forgiveness. Better to just walk away and let everyone start over.

James & Rin,

You 2 have me on the edge of tears right now having read your posts from today!! Talk of parents, what we have gotten from them (good & bad), loss of them, Rin's GrandF, how it relates to our R, how it relates to our M, how our WSs are effected by the same in their FOO, and then to how we discipline our kids today in the hope for their futures!

OMG! It's almost overwhelming. I hope you two will sit back and read through today's posts again. There is some FABULOUS stuff in there that I SOOOO relate to!

You are both so special! Pats on the back,, hugs,,, prayers,,,kudos,,, thank yous,,,,and keep up the great work. There truly are angels here and I count you both among them!

gc:

Such people can't forgive themselves, which must happen before they can accept it from others.

Tragic.

-ol' 2long

Hey 2long, missing you out here. Not many of my old chums are attending this year. Nonetheless my best pal from grad school is here and I shall arrive late for tomorrow's 0800 session. Tonight we storm the Edinburgh Castle!

Rats! I KNEW you'd be there if I weren't!

Hey, look up JL for me. Tell him I lost his email address.

I'll be there next year, fashure!

-ol' 2long

SG and Strivin:

Man.. it is so hard to hear about what this does to our kids.. my heart and prayers are with you both as you struggle through this. DS's daycare has been great.. DD.. well, she struggled the last couple of months but she's coping well now, and is involved in some of the community sports going around for winter time.. it's good for her, and for me too.. gives me more excuses to be out of the house.

GrayCloud: Hmm.. I almost wonder if WW isn't part of that group. Honestly, all indicators point towards her and Wonderboy fighting the odds.. 2long don't see it.. and he hasn't been wrong yet, that and God keeps telling me to WAIT.. so hey.. who am I to argue at this point. Changes nothing.

Bugs: Thanks for taking the time to wade through that.. honestly I think I might be entering a stage where the reflection goes all the way back to her parents and mine.. looking back at how we were raised.. someone brought up Family Of Origin issues.. and I think largely our FoO pretty much determines the set of moral values we adhere to throughout our lives.. unless something breaks that cycle. It hasn't been broken for WW.. and apparently it hasn't been broken for me either.. my parents stayed together through some pretty rough stuff.. hers.. well.. her dad D'd 4 times during her life.. dragging his girls through all that, and some abusive women too.. sad story really. Not entirely sure how much is true or exaggeration.. but Dad seems to back up most of it.. so it's been a rough road for WW.. and I think there are some serious emotional issues for her to work through before she's ready for a real commitment.. to our marriage or any other.

---------------------

Picked up DS tonight after stopping by the courthouse to make a support payment.. went to eat with DD, and DS.. met up with mom and got pictures of the kids taken.

DD's biological mom is a manager at the Sears photo studio here in town, and she and I get along pretty well still, which is good I suppose. DD'sBM had this idea for Christmas to get DD's sisters (she has 2 from her mom) and DS.. it was a lot of fun watching her get the kids all situated.. DSD -should- have been there too, but we know how that story goes. DD'sBM and my mom still talk frequently so she's up to speed on what's going on.. and is PISSED at WW too.. for whatever reason DD'sBM is very protective of me, and is very close friends with another ex of mine who actually watched DS for us for a few months while WW was going back to school.. and is actually one of my witnesses.

I kinda got the feeling she was playing up the 'wounded guy' card to her roomate though.. which made me a little uncomfortable.. got the impression her roomate was flirting, but I simply remained pleasant and deflected most, if not all of the perceived innuendo. Odd thing though is that about 15 minutes ago DD'sBM called me.. just to talk.. which hasn't happened in years.. not sure what to make of it, but I know I'm very vulnerable right now (no 2x4's please.. I'm very self aware of this).. We're good friends.. and want to remain so for DD.. things work well the way they are.. I'm not going to screw that up for DD.. but I'm almost afraid DD'sBM might be fishing.

Anyhow.. the exchange went uneventfully again.. I opened the door for her while I got DS ready.. no verbal exchange.. she seemed happy.. at peace.. I know in my heart, however this ends up.. I want her to be happy.. but part of me hurts to see it just now.

Gave DS a hug and kiss.. sent him out the door and closed it behind him.. end of my nite..

I can feel depression on the edge of my awareness.. trying to keep it out.. I know what God is telling me, and I know I need to listen.. Wait for the Lord.

Read lostva's post again.. I think I need to keep my Plan A going strong for me.. when WW's ready she'll start talking to me.. then I can start showing the changes.. until then it's just me, Plan A, and God.. I'm not going to be able to -do- anything meaningful for her until she's ready to accept it.. time and patience I suppose on that front.

I almost think, if she didn't feel really guilty about what she's doing.. she'd be more open to chitchat.. more easygoing about things.. less standoffish.

I'm not going to dwell on that.. I want her to feel guilty.. but she seems.. honestly.. fine with things.. other than talking or interacting with me.

*sigh*

Waywards are danged confusing.. maddening..

Love sucks sometimes.

Thanks for the kind words James.

Things have been rough and I'm still deciding whether to meet with my ex to get a check for the car or jsuthvae her mail it. She's out of the A but wants nothing to do with me.

I don't know that I can keep it together for our "meeting". She's still angry at me and hung up on me when I said she hurt me with her affair.

Anyway the gist wasn't to threadjack but rather to say chin up James, it's all a big test. It sucks not knowing what the test is supposed to determine and what the outcome is supposed to be but the god thing is I know that either way you will have gained increible strengh, insight, and you can proudly say that you've become the bet man you can be.

You're learning so much during this hard time and that can only help down the road.

Keep up the hard work as it will pay off no matter what. All anyone need know is that you understand what it is to love where many do not.

It's all one big test... hmm..

I know acutely that I'm being tempted.. bigtime.

Spent the night last night tossing and turning.. I KNOW it's wrong to think like this.. but my thoughts drifted to 'what if's' regarding DD'sBM..

Break out the lumber folks... I probably deserve it.. but be gentle.. I'm not feeling as strong today.. it's been a fight to push back thoughts.. so I'm going to get them out here just to get them out.. I -know- nobody here will support this notion.. I don't support it either, and I'm not going down that road.. but dang, is it tempting.

DD'sBM and I have maintained a very good friendship over the years... -very- early on after our breakup 11 years ago we hooked up, once.. nothing since, just a nice comfortable acquaintance..

DD'sBM has 2 daughters in addition to my DD.. she doesn't have a place of her own right now because of a relationship that ended badly about 6 months ago with the father of her youngest daughter.. so she's been staying with a friend in her apartment.. Without DSD around I've got the extra bed space for the girls.. Wouldn't have to worry about the stepmom angle for DD.. I've got a pretty good relationship already with her kids.. she and I have always been emotionally compatible.. she was a BS during her M (which ended about 5 years ago).. She's financially stable and it'd be a -real- help with the tight budget I'm running on trying to maintain the house, the bills, and pay support on just my income.. and it'd help her out too in much the same way as her job is pretty much enough to 'cover the bills' and not much more..

In short.. it'd be incredibly convenient.. but I don't think I can do it.. as vulnerable as I am.. and knowing how things were between us all those years ago.. and knowing how we've both grown since.. I doubt we'd be 'roomates' for long..

I know.. I'm hitting myself with a 2x4 now..

Ugh... I still love my wife.. it wouldn't be fair to someone else right now either for me to become emotionally entangled..

I still want to see things work with my wife.

I know in my heart what the answer is.. I know in my mind what the MORAL and GOOD thing to do is.. but I also know and admit to myself that I'm vulnerable right now.. and VERY lonely.. I CRAVE companionship.. someone to hold.. someone to love.. heck.. I'll admit it.. someone to make love to.

I WANT that to be my wife..

I just see her happy with her life.. I see this somehow as a way for me to completely detach and focus my efforts on going to war for my DS.. I also see this as giving up on my M..

I'm confused.. I shouldn't be but I am..

I'm an emotional mess and not ready for a relationship with -anyone- right now.. I'm not capable of healthy emotional interaction right now.. not with anyone but my W.. and even then I'm not so sure.

*sigh*

IC session tonight.. Catholic.. ProMarriage.. I'm sure I'm going to get my butt kicked.. But I'm being honest with myself.. honest with you guys.. I -am- tempted.. but I'm trying to let God lead me.

Looks like you have your answer right here, James.

What if someday you and she were to get back together? Would that be such a bad thing? You do share a child together, and you do say you have both grown.

But it is not worth risking the pain it might cause to take a chance with her feelings.

Now is a time to be still. Look within to fill those lonely places.

I hate to admit it.. but my initial reaction to this was... 'but what if this is my chance, and I miss it if I don't take it now?'

And then I realized immediately... that's wayward/affair/fogtalk..

Damn.. I'm so PISSED at myself right now.. it'd be an AFFAIR if I did go through with this..

Those damn what if's though keep creeping in... 'what if' my wife is sincere that she doesn't feel -anything- for me anymore and never will... 'what if' she goes through with setting up house and getting pregnant with Wonderkid's kid.. 'what if' she's in the 3%... 'what if' she doesn't ever turn back to me regardless of what happens with Wonderscum.. 'what if' I'm living in denial? 'what if' this is my opportunity to get out of the daily ****** I'm in?

*sigh*

Be still.. and know that I am the LORD.

*sigh*

AFFAIRS F'N SUCK!

To me, it is clear thinking. And while it may be an affair today, three weeks from now, it might be okay. And I say "may be" because I hold a different view of the issue of a BS moving on with their life. As long as you are holding out hope that your wife will return though, I would advise against your doing anything.

There's a LESSON in this for you in this, right?

You now FULLY understand the WS logic..how it all gets started..at a vulnerable time...

FOCUS ON YOURSELF...how this KNOWLEDGE can help YOU and your OWN GROWTH.

Feel good about YOUR GREATNESS..how YOU can overcome understandable TEMPTATION..how you are choosing NOT to use another person for your own selfish needs...

BEAT YOUR CHEST, WARRIOR!!!

Nothing good will come from that Jamesus, you KNOW it. If you want to go that route, then start pushing the divorce and to ****** with all this Plan A/B crap. I mean, why torture yourself on BOTH ends of the deal?!

I know you know this.

And, don't get me wrong. There's no shame in you deciding its time to move on. There is, however, a right and a wrong way to do that. I know you will choose the right way.

Thanks Mimi.. Tyk..

I know you're both right.. and YES.. there is a lesson to be learned here..

I totally understand the vulnerability.. I totally understand the mentality of 'well this isn't getting any better.. may as well do for me'.. I also -KNOW- that mentality doesn't have any place in a successful marriage.

I understand that the 'yeah buts' are the enemy of personal growth and marriage building.

I undersand through this that even the truly faithful can be drawn -hard- down paths that do not lead to righteousness..

I understand that -anyone- can be vulnerable to an affair if their needs aren't being met.. and boy HOWDY are my needs going totally completely unmet.. nobody's even saying 'hi' in passing to them..

I understand how tempting the total joy of 'falling in love'.. or even the idea of it can be for someone who is hurting and could really use something like that to fill them up.. even if it's only temporary.

I'm also learning how difficult it is for WW to turn back.. now that she's taken that step...

I'm ashamed of myself for even considering it.. but WW doesn't even seem bothered by what she's doing.. I know it would eat me alive every day to just close the door and start with someone else... even when I have every right to, and biblical 'permission' to move on.. ugh..

I've also learned how easy it is to 'rationalize' and get to the 'well -everyone- would be better off this way'.. well.. everyone but the kids.. everyone but the OP(s) who are ultimately also victims of our selfishness.. *sigh*

I'll say it again... AFFAIRS F'n SUCK...

Don't be ASHAMED. It's understandable.



Well, of course..she's a WAYWARD WIFE...ACCEPTANCE, James, ACCEPTANCE...



That's because you are a GREAT WARRIOR..fighting for your family...



Are you DIVORCED? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> If not, you would be committing ADULTERY. And even if not biblically, it is not fair or right for you to start another relationship until you are FINISHED with her...completely FINISHED..or else, IMO, you would be USING the OP for your own selfish needs...



Yep..so there..you said it yourself...

Thanks Mimi.. you truly are a Godsend..

Like I said before.. I know this is not where I should be headed, but I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't strongly tempted by it.

There's too much to lose in doing it.. and the other 'what if's' start to pop up..

What if I go this direction and WW shows up wanting to make things work?

What if I do win custody for DS and then I'm no better.. subjecting him to someone else.

What if I do this.. would my focus still be on my children who desperately need me to be totally centered on them right now, or would it be on making a new relationship work? One of the two would lose in the end.

I know in my heart I'm not 'done' yet with my wife.

Still.. I have to be honest.. I am tempted..

I'm continuing to pray for God's guidance.. and I thank everyone for chiming in with the light thwacks instead of the 2x4's.

I'm not ready to 'move on' yet.. heck.. just yesterday I told you all to stop telling me about the wonderful other people in the world..

I'm ok now.. I'm breathing.. I'm still.

Hey, James

You've read my thread. You know that I have at times struggled with this. What I realized was that the urges to "find someone else" were coming when I was feeling bad, usually from a trigger of some kind, sometimes from a lack of sleep. Anyway, I would be feeling bad, and Finding Someone Else (or at least looking to see who might be available) Felt like something that might make me Feel Better.

I recommend holding off. Figure out something else to make you feel better. Recognize the void for what it is and fill it with something else. If you're lonely, volunteer somewhere. Take up a new hobby. Take a class.

I understand the temptation. You'd be nuts if you weren't tempted.

GREAT IDEAS!!!

Do something that you always wanted to do...even looking into a new activity or topic is time well spent...

Hey, GC, this is powerful stuff. I read you talk about WWs and find myself nodding and thinking "yep, this sounds like my situation."

There was a thread recently about whether it matters what the sex of the WS is, and the consensus response was no. I don't think I agree with that. I'm beginning to think that dealing with WWs is different from dealing with WHs.

End TJ.