Wow.. blessed by the illustrious Mortarman.. I'm honored you're taking the time guy.

Any help would be appreciated.. your posts have been great help to others, and I've printed out a few of them for myself.

James, I am in the minority here in that I think counseling with the Harley's in this case could actually be a bad idea. I have never said that in my time here...but here is my reasoning.

The Harley's are in the business of saving marriages. Your focus needs to be on saving your child. I wouldn't implement any change in plans without approval of your attorney. Jennifer may try and talk you into an extended Plan A which is a horrible idea in terms of getting your son out of there. IMHO,you will need to fight...and at times get dirty...to make sure your child is home with you. Filing paperwork to state that she is an unfit parent will not go hand in hand with plan A. And James, she is an unfit mother.
While I understand your desire to talk to Jennifer, I think the $185 could have been better spent on a consultation with a father's rights attorney. Even though you are comfortable with your lawyer, it wouldn't hurt to get another set of "specialist" eyes on your case.
Any talk of a protracted Plan A should be weighed against the harm that is being done to your relationship with your son each and every time he stays in her little love shack.

Just some things to consider.

medc:

That's why I asked Mortarman 2 come here and chime in. His FWW was doing similarly whacked out things with their kids. He coached with SH during that time, 2.

I think the combination of a bright, God-fearing BH in both cases, with guidance from the Harleys on the M front, is really a good one.

The Harleys are first in the business of saving individuals and families, then marriages, if that's possible.

-ol' 2long

Well.. Wonderboy drove again, but kept the van out in the street..

Not suprised in the least.

The credit card payment is now late.. I informed her of this as she was walking DS out the door.

Her response: Ok

Me: Are you planning on paying it?

Her: Are you planning on paying the water and sewer bill?

Me: I've not yet received the information for them I asked you for.

Her: I don't have it.. all I got was a late notice on the water bill.

Me: Well I removed you from the water bill 2 months ago.. I need the info for the sewer.

Her: They're the same bill.

Me: Then you're off that.

Her: Ok.

End of conversation.

Got a call from Jennifer coming in about 10 minutes guys..

I'm not happy.. going to have to consider carefully my next move.

Kind of as an aside, I want to share that Steve Harley focused on helping ME with the parenting of my son for throughout several of my coaching sessions.

So the Harleys do not SOLELY focus on MARRIAGES.

Steve Harley evidenced sincere CARING for MY SON and made the choice to devote time to talking about HIS special needs during the time of my H's affair.

Hey James,

I've been off in psyche land for a while so my attention has been focused on personal recovery. It's amazing what doing group therapy can do for one's perspective.

I went a little overboard and projected a few pages back about the boundaries issues.

I've been thinking about you as well as everyone else here.
Keep the faith and each difficult could be viewed as a challenge either for you or your marriage.

The waywards drive their partners nuts and can make you crazy if you let 'em. You're still on the ball and taking care of your own which is the way it should be done.

Well 2long, you were right about the 'boundary' thing, I should have talked with Jennifer before doing anything there.

I can however turn it into a Plan A opportunity.. goodness Jennifer is great with this Plan A stuff.

Essentially.. an email back to her looked like this:


WW,

Just wanted to say thank you for respecting my wishes this evening, and seeing to it that the boy you are seeing did not come to my house. I'm not enthusiastic about DS being taken out into the street to put him into the van though, but I'm sure you know what you are doing.

Please let me know when you are planning to make a payment on the card, and I will try calling them to see if they will wave the late fee. I'll try to save you the $35 they like to charge as part of the next months minimum due for that, but we'll need to get that taken care of pretty quickly to have a chance at doing that.

Thank you also for being honest with me about your reasons for not paying it on time. As a result, I did some checking about the sewer thing, and don't see any mention of the sewer charges on the bill from the water company, so I just wanted to make sure we're on the same page, and I'm not missing a bill I should be getting. It runs in my mind that the sewer was through the city though. If that is the case, and it's in your name we'll probably need to work together to get that changed over (you authorizing me to take over your account etc. and then letting me know the account info so I can call and do just that.). I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, or even to get a copy of the 'late notice' you received so that we can take care of any outstanding issues. My credit is healthy enough to handle a few hits, but I'd hate to see all the hard work we've both put into rebuilding yours go to waste over one or the both of us missing something. I'll be happy to help with your concerns on this.

Please give my love, hugs, and kisses to our wonderful children.

In my heart and in my prayers,
James


The lesson learned that I hadn't really had a good perspective on until last night, for those that are interested is that Plan A and B share one thing in common, and this part of it -is- about the WS.. They are designed to -protect- our WS from OUR LB's..

I need to sit down and do an inventory of the LB's I'm prone to (AO's, DJ's, SB's in particular) and also do an inventory of WHY.. as in, why I want to fight for my M.. keep those two things handy and review them often to keep my stamina up for a prolonged Plan A.

I'm actually in a pretty good headspace after I talked to Jennifer, despite being heavily triggered only a half hour before the call. She's great and I'd highly recommend her to anyone going through this.. I think after a few calls she could really turn me into an expert at this Plan A stuff.. an expert at preventing LB's and meeting EN's from a distance.

She also displayed a good amount of concern regarding DS, establishing only the boundaries I have control over (you were right 2long.. got no control over who's driving the alien mothership to my house if he's parking in the street)..

I think I've got plenty of stuff to keep me busy in solidifying the blurry outline of my Plan A, and working it to maximum effect.. she even gave me some tips on how to POJA my WW during mediation and in a long distance Plan A.

I'm digging it.. soaking it in and going to do the best I can with it.

her advice was what you would expect from the Harley's. I would expect if you are to embark on a mission consistent with the Harley's plan, you will be in for a protracted battle to regain your wife...I just sincerely hope that it doesn't harm your chances for regaining custody of your son(although my suspicions are that it will).

I haven't once heard you use a DJ as far as your wife is concerned....she is the one that has been disrespectful beyond measure. I wish you had sought out an expert in father's rights in this case Jame's. You seem more willing to fight for a lying, cheating wife that would take her own child from his home, than you are to get your son out of a horrendous situation. I know you might be viewing it as if she returns, he is back in an intact family. I just see the risk of this being way beyond the possible reward.

We all have to make our choices in life. I don't understand yours....not at all...but really, I don't have to. I will just keep hoping that something positive happens out of this mess....and if that means your wife returning home to you (which means your kid is there too), great. If it doesn't (which is the more likely outcome here IMHO), I just pray that you are provided enough of a relationship with your son to keep you from being marginalized in his life.

Thank you MEDC.. Keep hoping for me, I really appreciate it. I'm not enthusiastic about having to fight my wife for custody of my son, but she's left me no other choice there.

I'm not giving up that fight either, and I'm doing everything I possibly can to further my case to that end. I don't think Plan A is going to -hurt- me in that respect.. unless she starts to respond to it.. If she continues to act in irrational and spiteful ways to someone who is -obviously- trying to do all he can to be cooperative and supportive to her and our children in this situation.. I'm relatively certain it won't be me who looks bad at the end of it.

This is going to be a protracted battle.. I don't see any benefit for my children for me to be the one fostering an environment of hostility between my wife and I. One of their parents darn well better be teaching them and displaying what mature, responsible people do when faced with adversity.

James, you could walk outside and plant your foot in her asss...and YOU would NOT be the one that has fostered hostility. This is all her doing.

Look, I recognize that I am using my experience and what I think you should be fighting for in forming my advice to you.
I do not believe that there is a way for you to regain custody of your son without getting into the mud here. have you ever read a petition for custody? they can be brutal and the only way you are ever going to get custody of your child back is by showing her to be an unfit parent...which btw, she is.

IMHO, if you follow the advice given, you will be lead along to a amicable custody agreement where you see your son 25% of the time. I have fought the battle, I know.

James, you are a nice guy. I am afraid, for this battle, you might be too nice. A father winning back custody of children will require you showing her to be a LOUSY parent. There will be no points afforded you by the courts (or later by your son) for being cordial to your wife and she steals your child's future. My boy is thankful beyond words that I was willing to fight...and sometimes it got ugly...to get him away from a toxic mother. I will say here, that my son's situation was not as bad as your child's.

You have a goal of returning your wife to your home. With her will come your son. For me, the risk/reward here is not worth likely losing your child. But, I am not the one to make that call...if you feel she is worth all of this, then I support your decisions. I don't agree, but I will support you as best I can.

MEDC- I just love you...I had to let you know that this morning! I hope you don't take that the wrong way...guess I should say that you are amazing or something else...but I'll leave it at that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

James- please don't take on HER stuff...you didn't start this...defensing your family it NOT creating hostility...you are at war for your family and your marriage...YOU are not to blame for this sitch, you are doing what you HAVE TO DO...

STAND UP and let her know that you will not TOLERATE this behavior...I know that you have...that's really a reminder...YOUR kids will respect you in the long run for it...THEY see MORE than you think! Something I have learned well!

And MEDC's right, YOU ARE going to have to get in the mud...make sure that your four wheel drive chasie is lubed b/c you will need it...people have short term memories...if your M is to be recon., the stuff you do not will work out in the long run...

Stand up and put on your boxing gloves...this is one battle you do not want to look back on and wish that you had fought harder...this is one that you want to have peace with when it's all said and done...

Here's a little something for you this morning:

James, you -know- this is spoken out of care and concern...sweetie, I wouldn't try to cause any harm...the fight is hard and it hurts in the process, but it GETS BETTER!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thanks.

This is a GREAT POINT that you made here, James.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Merry Christmas!

You guys are great. And don't worry.. I have gotten my hands dirty in the custody battle fight, and I will continue to fight tooth and nail in that arena.

This doesn't mean my personal interactions with WW must be hostile or inconsiderate.

I am standing up for my son, I am fighting, and it is causing problems with my Plan A.. When that happens, and Jennifer and I discussed this last night, my son is coming first. She's supportive of that, and has given me some ideas on how to approach it.

Have some faith in me guys.. I'm workin it.

We have FAITH James! And you are doing a wonderful job...

No 2x4's here...we know that you are handling your business...

...hmmm...just little reminders...sort to speak...

I would be so proud to have someone like you, EPH, MEDC, and any other BS who has fought for their kids...MOF, I have often thought that one of the things I would look for in my next teammate is the fact that he does have custody of his kids...THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES! You know?

Not so much for woman, but for men...WOW!! Just my POV!!

But what do I know... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> LOL

I don't think you need to get in the mud. That's where the pigs are..you need to stay up on your white horse...clean and white..above them...HEAD UP..CHEST OUT..BEATING YOUR CHEST..LIKE A WARRIOR!!

Get your funds together when/if necessary and get yourself the meanest, nastiest, lawyer in town...Charlotte calls this person A DOBERMAN...

Don't sink to your WW'S GUTTER LEVEL...

I've had experience with custody cases in knowing that judges do take a look at your response to this. At least where I live you do not have to prove her to be a LOUSY parent..which she is right now..the judge rules in the child's BEST INTEREST..remember there are custody situations where the parents are equally suited and there is no affair going on...

I see where MEDC and RIN are coming from,though...

But I know of cases like mine and Mortarman's where our WSes WERE horrible parents and TODAY they are wonderful...I sat there in amazement last night while my H and son talked for 2 straight hours in the other room...TBH, about 5 years ago, they wanted to kill each other...

HAVE FAITH AND TRUST, James....

a woman doesn't need to get in the mud. a man does. they are on unequal footing in court.

Rindy is right on in her assessment.

I agree with Mimi about the lawyer...just NOT the timing. When?if, hit a long time ago. Your son lives with a horrible mom and her boyfriend. I would say the time would be NOW. JMHO. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I agree Jame's ... have faith...BUT LOCK YOUR CAR ANYWAY!

Morning Mimi!

I agree! That's why I was thinking to have the 4X4 ready...windows rolled up...heck, wear a white tux for the occasion! LOL

James, you wouldn't believe the stuff that POWS and I have been through and we are able to be civil with each other today and pleasant...I still see the lies...I -hear- them...BUT it's not between him and I right not...that stuff can lie low...it's about the kids...

it works out man! it really done...Mimi KNOWS!!

Actually MEDC, you're growing on me,too..I can't go as far as the LOVE part yet... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Rin, of course you remain one of MY GIRLS!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />