James, Ignore that number 97%. Get your hope somewhere else.

Hey Rin - Thanks, I read the summary, but I want to take the time to read all the details as well.

Hey thanks everybody, it's good to know I'm getting such great people and advice behind me here.

I don't have much to add today, but I am taking it all in and digesting it.

MM, I've printed your post out, and have gone over it several times. Thank you very much for taking the time and sharing your experiences here.

Eph and others, I seriously appreciate you taking the time to get through the madness of the last 4 months of my life, I can't thank you guys enough for being here for me.

WW seems to think I'm being petty, insecure, and jealous in my request, which I can now recognize easily is an attempt to gaslight me in hopes that I'll back down.

Still haven't decided how best to address that issue, but MM's post is certainly filled with helpful ideas.

Jamesus, I hope you have a pleasant, peaceful holiday and can spend some quality time with your family.

James,

What do you mean by gaslight you in the hopes you'll back down?

Bracha

Thanks for the well wishes Sushi, I hope you also have a Merry Christmas and enjoy your time with family.

I know DS, DD, FIL, SIL, Mom and I are planning to have a blast this week.



SG: Essentially her ultimate response to my request that Wonderkid not come to my house anymore was to accuse me of being petty, insecure, and jealous.. that I just needed to get over it and move on to real issues like our son and his well being.

My simple reply is that as a parent, I believe that moral foundation, and character building are central to my responsibilities as a parent. Making decisions about who is allowed around my son while he is with me is just as much my right as it is hers when he is with her. The difference here is that I actually had to ask, when it should have been understood from the beginning.

The difference here is that you are a decent parent, and she is not.

You should be just as concerned about your children being around your WW as them being around OM. Moreso even.

Not trying to rain on your parade Jamesus, I just think you might tend to overlook the fact that your children actually need more protection from your WW than the OM. Without her, he wouldn't even be an issue.

Agreed.. and in her current state of mind, you're absolutely right. This is why I'm fighting the custody fight.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't get the part of it being gaslight. This is important because my life was like that movie and I am trying to understand so I can not buy into the behavior.

So I apologize for my slowness.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Well.. we've already gotten into the definition of gaslighting here before.

Essentially what it boils down to is that she's blaming her inability to separate herself from him for the 20 minute round trip on -my- insecurities, and -my- jealousy, and -my- pettiness.. when honestly either she and/or Wonderboy can pretty much own all of those in this particular situation.

Did you say this to her? What was her response?

By the way...THAT was the right way to deal with it, and the right thing to say!

My response was actually:

Thank you for your honesty regarding your unwillingness to comply with the intent of my request. I do not however agree with the assumption that displaying mutual respect for each other, and the values, morals, integrity, and ethics we have both tried so hard to instill as the foundation for our children's lives is either petty, or without the deepest concern for their character or well being.


She has not responded.

Yech, like trying to feed a rattlesnake by hand, ain't it?

It's too bad that you couldn't just come right out and say that playing musical fathers with your kid's lives is just WRONG and it hurts the children. And that it kills you to see your child and step-child be subject to her disgusting choices.

I have the utmost respect for you guys that have such strength of restraint.

MM, it's really good to see you here. Congratulations on your newest addition!

When 2long first said he called you out to help here, I was like:

Hotdiggedydog, he's calling in the BRASS.

The BIG GUNS

The hostess with the mostess. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Who you gonna call?

Affair Buster!

Your the best, MM.

Hadn't heard that analogy before GC.. but you're certainly right.

I do feel kind of stupid for getting drawn into it in the first place.. Still, I don't feel any regret standing up for my family in my own home..

I don't figure it'll do any good or change anything short term either.. I'm just going one move at a time and seeing how it goes..

Ahh JJ.. but phrasing it like that would be a disrespectful judgement.

True.. but still. I'm supposed to be protecting her from my LBing behavior... according to the pro.

Yes, I know. But if I were her Mother, she'd be hearing some DJ's from me.

James,

Nice to see experienced heavy hitters coming in on this thread. There is much wisdom written on this thread. I caught up on the recent developments and wanted to jot down some thoughts. If I am out of line - please let me know. There are so many posts so there is a chance of missing something.

If the situation doesn't not turn around as you wish, I can assure you from what I read, that wonderboy's insecurities will get worst as exchanges keep going for weeks, months and maybe years on end. DS is very young and there will be continual contact for many years which is unlike DSD father. Do you think WW is thinking you will fade away like the previous H ?

On the current living arrangements, how long do you think this can continue while living under wb parent's roof? If I recall - DSD sleeping arrangements with another non-related preteen boy cannot last for very long. Although you have no say in this matter. I think MEDC has referred to this during his posts that these living conditions are not healthy (in fact-can be dangerous)for the children.

What do both sets of grandparents of DSD think of this crazy situation? I would think they would be very concern and would try to intervene or at least would make periodic visits to check up on things.

Also concerned with what discipline DS receives from these strangers while under their roof. Eventually all young boys get in to a bit of trouble.

Your little guy is in a very precarious situation while his mother is not aware. He is the link between you and your WW and she has an immature, and insecure OM living in dysfunctional family environment. That's my take.

btw - Great move to get some strategies in place from the Harley's. You need a road map or a master plan in order to move forward. Looks like you have a good legal plan in place. The evaluation will be a key milestone.

Have a great time with family and friends during this holiday season. Keep the faith and work the plan. I look forward to reading other opinions on this situation.

btw - I didn't intend to harp on these negatives - just that these seem to come to my mind each time I visit.

I think she was counting on it actually.. not sure where she got the idea from.. but hey, it worked last time didn't it? She was a big enough PITA that he dropped out..



Not sure how long this can last this way. She was supposed to get her house last month, but according to the website for the relator, they're still taking appointments to see it.

Plus as a part of the most recent exchange she seems awfully concerned again suddenly about her credit situation.. If I had to place a bet, I'd say they got as far as actually trying to get the loan before the bank said.. woah.. your husband's credit is gone.. where'd it go? OH.. he froze it..



As of this past week, both sets of DSD's grandparents have been alienated because they refuse to believe her story that DSD wants nothing to do with me. Matter of fact her exH's dad is our son's Godfather.. and exH's stepmom has pretty much treated WW and I like -her- kids.. great relationship with those two. They've both said in response to WW's assertion that it's hogwash.. and that DSD practically worshipped the ground I walked on... they are -VERY- concerned... both sides... my mom too. At this point nobody is allowed to visit or talk on the phone to DSD.


I'm concerned too, but have no indication he's receiving anything more than timeouts for bad behavior.. he's pretty good at using his words and 'tattling' at this point.. so I'm not -TOO- worried.. only marks on the boy so far are fairly typical rough and tumble kid stuff... rugburns on the knee, a scratch here or there.. a bump on the knoggin where he's run into stuff.. pretty typical for my boy.


I am acutely aware of this.. the major reason why I fight..


Thanks a lot for your questions and support rwinger.. I really appreciate you taking the time to read and post here.

Thanks JJ (as Mortarman blushes!).

While what JJ said would be harsh, I am not sure it is a DJ. Why?

Okay, here is JJ's quote:
Now, some of the verbage, I would arrange better. Maybe not use the word "disgusting" as it is inflammatory. But, let me rewrite this a little better so you can see my idea of what isnt a DJ but hits hard.


Or something like that!

Actually, I told my wife that it was a shame that the kids no longer had a place to call home. That they lived out of bags, staying a few nights here...and a few nights there. I outlined to her an example. Here it was. Our youngest son at the time was 8. I told her that with us splitting time (in reality, I had most of the time...but just go with this for a minute), and our youngest having 10 years left until he graduated...that if we split down the middle, then she would miss out of all contact with her son for 5 years of the next 10 years! And of course, our son would have to do without his Dad for 5 of the next ten years.

You see, many times I didnt attack...I just presented cold, hard facts. Ones that she is NOT considering. So, I asked my wife: "Does that not bother you that you are not going to be with your own son for 5 of the next ten years? That some other woman, if I remarry, will have those other 5 years with your son?"

You see? In this case, I took myself out of the context. I put her in it with her kids. And another woman in it also, to show her what she is giving up.

When Mrs. MM and I talk now, she tells me that those talks would sit with her. They stayed with her. They ate at her. Why? Because, as she said, deep down, she couldnt hide from the truth that it was her making the decision to be away from her kids and to allow another woman to have equal time and impact in their lives. THAT DID NOT SIT WELL!!

As Steve Harley told me once...the greatest asset the marriage has for use in reaching recovery...is those kids!