LMAO... I'll take it Mimi! Thanks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mimi,

Could it be becuase I've fought my Goddess way? LMAO...

I'm still grieving over me *SHOES*!!!

I have some shopping to do at VS soon! I'm looking forward to that! YOU KNOW how that makes a WOMAN feel! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sorry james...it's a family thing!! LMAO

Stick around! Do you need any instruction in the woodchipper dept. or sipper cups? LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Come join us!

Okay...I have gone blind trying to read all of the posts on here to catch up.

Can someone give me a Cliff Note version of where we are here? Custody? Plan A? Still the same OM? Court issues? What steps have been taken to secure custody? ETC

Thanks!

I will make a brief comment, again not knowing the full story here. The discussion here about getting in the mud is relevent...but a person still interested in reconciling with their WS must do so in a way that allows them to win...but also doesnt push the WS further away. I know some may think that it is impossible...but I know it isnt.

So, how do you do that? Well, you Plan A as Jennifer has outlined to James. But, you get in the mud in secret. You never let her know that it is you gathering information, you hiring private detectives, you recording all information in journals, etc. As I told my wife when she wanted to talk about a divorce...I told her that I will talk about our marriage...I dont do divorce. If she wanted to talk about divorce, she could contact my attorney.

I let my attorney be the bad guy. My wife would ask "What do you mean asking for this or demanding that?" My response? "Well, that is Jon's expertise. He is doing his job. Why dont you ask him?"

As anyone knows with my sitch, I went to court twice for custody and won both times. And you also know that I dotted every T and crossed every I to make sure I had an open and shut case. I had so much stuff on her, that even to this day, she has no idea the depths I went to in order to win the case.

But, all the while...I appeared to be out of the mud. I mean, there were times, when I wasnt in Plan B, that she would call me and complain about her attorney to me. Tell me that he was doing this thing wrong or whatever. She was discussing it with ME!! I had detached myself so well from the divorce and the ugly parts of it, that even to this day, my wife seems to give me a break on many of those things...and cusses out my attorney!!

Of course, if he just wants to move on with his life...then by all means, get busy and do it and dont worry about what she thinks or does!!

On the issue of being noce in front of the children...James, you can do so without appearing to be giving into her immoral life. One example is you saying that the OM is not allowed on your property, and if he does enter your property, you will have him arrested. So that, when your wife comes to pick up the kids, then you can interact with her (and without the OM there, she will more readily interact with you) and things can be civil in front of the kids.

Oh, one more note: you know why the OM comes along when she comes to get ther kids? Because, he wants to keep an eye on HER!

Anyway, will wait on the Cliff Note version of James' sitch.

MM...I can relate to your DW calling you about your Laywer...

POWS called me back in May asking WHY were they requesting all of this documents from him...he was fuming!!! I just said that I didn't know and they had asked me to do the same a few weeks back...that I guessed it was just part of the process...he doesn't know all of the [email]cr@p[/email] I had/have on him either...

I think that's the way it should be...he was fighting me BIG time on the Custody...and I won...I still have a long road ahead of me, one way or another, with or without him, but he can at least talk and be very civil and pleasant...

I'm still keeeping my distance but when I do talk to him...it's Plan A...

So, James, you know that you have gotten some great advice and support...just amazing how these things work out huh?

Yup.. I know I've got some great advice here, and I'm encouraged even by the people I don't always agree with. It's good to have another POV to consider.

I totally understand that we all have our own personal styles.

Ok.. Cliffs notes:

Left 1 week after our 3rd anniversary ostensibly to move in with her coworker.

Discover a week after moving out she's been texting and calling coworker's son (Wonderboy) for about a month.. I confront with this information and suddenly she shuts her phone off and surfaces with a new one... proof enough for me to call it D Day when I hear from DSD that he's sleeping in mommy's room.. but it's ok because they have their pajamas on.

I fume... I spend about a month and a half on my knees like an idiot begging her not to give up on all we've built together, our family, our faith, our kids... I looked pretty weak.

Temporary Orders hearing was the first of November, he said vs she said bovine droppings and because I didn't stop her from taking DS out of the house when she left.. judge just rubber stamped the status quo.. I've taken my lumps for this and appreciate them.

We have recently got a mediator in the case, and WW (who is a legal secretary for the lawyer representing her.. essential piece of info here as to why I can't really blame my lawyer for much.. she knows from the inside how he just does what I tell him to).. pushed immediately for a mediation date. My lawyer put the brakes on that until we can get a custody eval done.. there's a group he's trying to get ahold of that does in home evals as well as talking to neighbors and family members, significant others, daycare providers etc and does a thorough eval.. I'm hip to this idea if they'll do it in our county.. otherwise it'll be the standard GAL and Psych evals.

WW has essentially Plan B'd her father and sisters, as well as DSD's grandparents on her exH's side.. basically isolating herself from the extremely strong family support system she had when she and I met, and who -all- strongly oppose the divorce, and even more stringently oppose the fact that WW, since discovering I seek custody of DS, has prevented any interaction with DSD outside of a few incidences where I've lucked into it.

I'm doing my best and have been having good success at being civil with her when I do have to deal with her, and at times it almost seems friendly.. but I know it's a front for the both of us right now as I've seen some of the things she's sent to people regarding the situation.. she's -pissed- about the custody battle.. majorly... it's a huge trigger for her, and she's dealing with it daily it seems... still she's making the effort to keep up appearances with me while she's cut off everyone else completely.

I think that's pretty much where I'm at.. if you have anything specific you want to know.. just ask, I'm an open book.. most stuff is in my sig.

Mortarman:

Thanks very much for looking at this sitch. I knew that your experience would be most applicable 2 helping James in his si2ation.

Re: Mud.

I like the tux in the 4x4 metaphor. I think that's most like what Mortarman did, as you can see from his account above.

So much of the details of how James conducts himself DOES depend on the outcome he's hoping for here. And the age of his kids. My kids are grown, so if I were facing DV now, I wouldn't have the custody battle 2 be concerned over. That would take a huge load off the process.

Even if one gets DV'd over infidelity, it IS possible 2 have a cordial relationship. My favorite example is Spacecase, who's been divorced now for about 4.5 years. At the time, his twins were late teenagers. He fought the good fight 2 save his marriage for about 3 years here and on ilovulove, but ended up deciding 2 let his W go (and thus himself). I remember him telling me that in Texas, DVees are required 2 take a weekend class. He said that he and one other person were the only 2 people in the class who weren't bitter and angry over their experience.

He's in a new house with a new love, and still able 2 interact with his xW well. His kids are out on their own know, 2.

But that's very different from this sitch. Yet still, the balance between compassion and firmness (not contradictory terms, really) needs 2 be maintained.

Accepting his W's current behavior as "who she is" right now is not tolerating or condoning it. In fact, accepting it rather than denying it will help him fight the fight.

-ol' 2long

Quick note--glad you got in with Jennifer and found it helpful. I know that I did and, like you, recommend it to anyone fighting for their family.

Keep up the good work!

You've gained so much already....in your PERSONAL life..not just regarding your marriage.. by having 2Long and MM posting to you...

HOW BLESSED YOU ARE!!

Look what you done PRAYED UP, MY MAN!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I really am honored to have great people here posting to me and keeping me focused.

MEDC, Mimi, Grey, Guided, 2long, SDGuy, Weaver, Jim, Bugs, Mr.W, Rin, Skins, and Infodude.. the list goes on and on and on.. I'm sure I've missed several who have been invaluable to me.. I'm honored to have the imortal Mortarman on board now too, and all the rest, whether kicking me in the pants or patting me on the back.. it's all parts of what I need to heal and get on with my life while as Jennifer said 'You do the best you can and wait for the A to die'..

If it doesn't.. well.. I'll have grown a lot from the experience, and will probably be more self aware and deeply rooted in my faith than most people will ever be.. that in itself is a lifelong blessing... I'll take it, if that's what I end up with.

The fact that I'm actually stopping now and taking the time to be introspective (not to be confused with introverted) is a positive.

James,

You are so blessed because you are a wonderful man and father. It is because of your faith and trust in G-d that has gotten you this far and it's what helps to keep me in faith and trust.

You and I talk about this so often who we walk the same difficult path. Our situations to most would seem absolutely hopeless, but we keep doing what G-d is asking us to do by standing for our M and becoming the person he always intended us to be.

I like what you wrote about Jennifer "You do the best you can and wait for the A to die". That is so what I need to do. So can you talk about how you are coming to terms with it?

I could use a little support on this today. I have this nagging feeling inside of me that if WH chose to not come home that I am losing the best life I could ever have. Or I am losing the love of my life and that hurts so deeply.

Do you get caught up in thinking we are the losers and yet what our spouses continue to do is actually the losers? If so, how did you work through this?

Here's the thing.. let's say we all establish the fact that most A's die in about 2 years. There's those 3% that 'make it'.. well, I'll take a 97% chance I'll have an opportunity within the reasonable future to have my family back. I'll also take God's promise over those numbers any day, and believe Him when he says that I should be still and Wait for the LORD... I mean, he did create the heavens and the earth.. my problems are -nothing- compared to what worries Him... drop in the bucket.



While your H is gone.. what you've really lost, if you were to look at him now, is a guy who values himself so little that he needs a business card to be 'somebody'.. and -is- such a little person inside that he can't get past his pride and reverse a decision he -knows- is wrong. No big loss at this point eh? Now if you can find out where he put your H.. then you'll have something to fret over, but I imagine H will come back on his own if he comes back at all.. WH doesn't value himself, why should you ascribe any to him?


No.. I did for a while I suppose, but then I figured out that if God thought I was someone special.. who was I to argue? I'm not the loser.. I'm the prize.

Jame's..if this is the case, are you willing to let your son live with the OM for up to two years and still take back your wife?
I know this hurts to hear, but unless something dramatic changes, your son will be spending significantly more time with the OM than you ... and children, IMHO, spell "love" TIME.

I would be right there with you on this if your son was with you. Absent a change in that status...there is no "reasonable future."

I don't know if MM's wife took her kids to live with the OM, but I think that is the most important fact here...your son is living with the OM and developing more and more of a relationship with him each passing day.

That Jame's is very dangerous and not worth the long shot that she might return. I know they say that most affairs end...I don't think 97% is accurate (probably close though)...But I think MOST affairs NEVER involve the parties living together (let alone with the BS child). Dr. H even says in his literature that most affairs are never even revealed...remember, that is included in the 97% stat.

Do I want you to lose hope? No. But I do want you to have your eyes wide open here. There is not a 97% chance your wife will end her affair.... I hope she does...but I wouldn't count on it. In the meantime, perhaps a free consult with a father's rights lawyer would be in order just to have him give his opinion on your approach to date. I liken what is happening in your M to cancer....while your "family doctor"...the one who treats all types of problems is good to have around, you might want to get the opinion of an oncologist before starting any treatments. Just a suggestion to help keep things balanced.

And you are the prize Jame's. Don't forget that.

Thanks for the reality check there MEDC.. and I would ascribe a lot of validity to what you are saying.

I'm obviously not comfortable about the situation as it is, but right now, until the eval is done this is the court ordered situation. Nothing's going to change that until the end and I've fought with all the tools at my disposal (and believe me.. I'm emptying the armory for this one).. I'm fighting the best fight I know how.. I've read a handful of fathers rights books and what they all have in common is that the key is to -keep- fighting.. the best way to level the playing field is to show that you aren't going to back down and go away.. I'm not going to do that.. she's starting to get that picture.

I'm not playing dirty but I've got some good cards in my hand.. I'm going to play them. My lawyer and I, I feel are finally on the same page, and instead of getting advice from him, I'm dictating our progress now.. this is a good thing. He's receptive and approves of most of what I'm saying and doing.. we're building a case.. and we're going to fight. This isn't a problem I can resolve overnight.. and I want to do this the right way.

I'm not going into details here of what I've recorded, and what I'm -doing- exactly.. so I know it seems kind of frustrating and that I'm being very laid back about it.. but make no mistake.. I'm getting aggressive on this sorte.

Excellent.

One point on my sitch that was brought up above...my kids were around the Troll two or three times, and only once when they were awake and knew he was there. All three of those times happened while I was deployed to Bosnia, when the adultery started (I hate calling these things "affairs!").

Once I returned, and found out what was going on, I made sure that those kids NEVER were around the Troll. Could I legally stop it? Sure. Because in Virginia, like some other fault states, the laws are pretty stringent when concerning this stuff. But a part of it was me.

When it came to that situation, my demeanor changed around my wife. One time, early on, she had said that if I truly loved her, then I would let her take the kids around him, just to see what happens (the Fog was thick and juicy!). My demeanor changed (as it always did when discussing the kids with the Troll) and I would have a look in my eye and a body language that would be quite threatening. Not to her! But threatening in the fact that she knew I was serious when I said that there I would do WHATEVER it took to keep those kids away from this evil person. I would look her right in the eyes...not blinking...so she knew I meant it.

This past fall, when she asked me why I didnt ask about the two other guys she tried to date after our last separation...but always have railed on about the Troll...I told her that if it werent for the evil influences of the Troll, who knew you were married and had children and didnt care...we might not be in this position. I told her any other guys didnt know our situation, because she had told them she was finishing her divorce (which was true). But the POS Troll knew all along and still came on (a little note: one of the things that ended it with the Troll was the fact that he continually asked her to just let me have the kids and for her to move down to Florida with him. He didnt want our kids near him...which I was thankful for, in a way!! But, that was a deal-killer because deep down inside the alien-possessed Mrs. Mortarman at the time, she was still their Mom and there was no way she was just going to leave them for good).

So...while I could be civil to my wife during all of this...I was NEVER civil to or about the Troll. NEVER. If he had shown up on my lawn, I would have had the police there. Everytime! If she even tried to talk about him, I would continue to state that I dont want to hear about him, he is evil and my wife and children deserve better.

But, I dont know if your state has the laws like we do in the great Commonwealth of Virginia. So, you may only be able to document the fact that he is sleeping with your wife around the kids and is not related by blood or marriage. And then let the judge deal with it when you go to court.

But you can darn sure make sure you dont ever deal with him, talk to him and even talk about him, except in general terms that express the reality of who he is.

No, you dont want to constantly bash him, because WSs are notorious for defending the indefensible. And you will just push her to do that.

One note before I comment some more on James situation in my next post...is that of how you handle yourself when yo uare a BS, especially BHs. Always act like you are in control. Always stay in the right. That doesnt mean be a jerk...it means be right, then move forward. Always, always, always...if the adultery or OM is brought up, refer to it as what it is. If the WW says "WonderBoy has just gotten a raise at work and it is great how he is using that raise for getting the kids into karate"....you respond with "it is not great that such an immoral man is on contact with our children." And leave it at that.

When you do these things, she will blow up at you! She will say "you need to move on. He is a great guy. It is you that treated me bad. I had to leave." But, you stand there, looking at her with no emotion. And when she is done spewing Fog-laced bile, you respond with "I am your husband, and the father of our children. I am nothing like him."

As I go thru this, it may seem like I am wandering around...but what I am finding is holes here. Some usedto think on here that if you talked this way, that it would be like LBing your wife. I dont think so. Notice, I didnt say a disrespectful judgment like "you really chose a winner there!" Instead, I just stated facts..."He is an adulterer and I am not like him." Always separating yourself from him...separating your family from him. He is the outsider! Not you, not your wife!

Over time, these things will build up in her. When you matter-of-factly state the truth, it begins to wear on her. She cant continue to run around naked thinking she has clothes on, because after awhile...those that are telling her she is naked will begin to seep thru the fog and she will recognize her naked form in the mirror!!

This is emotional warfare, my friend. While doing the Plan A things Jennifer has outlined, you must be also about planning your Plan B and Plan D attacks. gathering resources. Fixing holes that need fixing. You cannot wait until it is time to move to Plan B or Plan D before you prepare for them.

But continue to be the man that is telling her the truth...especially since no one else around her is. A funny thing about the truth...you can only run so long from it before even you will realize that you are a fool!

MM...welcome back. Happy to hear things are going so well in your world.

I think you gave some great advice and insight here.

Mortarman:

Most excellent!

this is definitely 4x4 in a tux mud-whomping!

Be aware, of course, one important difference in the kids si2ation here. His DSD is not his biological daughter, and his WW is thus able 2 keep him from seeing her so long as she wants.

That doesn't lessen the imperativeness of James fighting for his kids, and it of course complicates things that his goal is reconciliation, not divorce.

But he has the resources (Jennifer, his lawyer) and the help from here (medc's custody experience, your similar recovery experience and religious devotion), 2 accomplish great things.

-ol' 2long

Well, thanks 2long!

James - I am also gonna spend some time catching up on your whole sitch this weekend since i have some downtime (kids are with their mom until Christmas Eve)

I may not have much more to add as you are getting great advice from everyone so far, but we are in this war together.

Hey E, James did a recap on page 79...might make it easier for you!

just a thought!