Here's a link to the thread I started in Just Found Out forum so you can have my beginning story: MY STORY

My husband has pleaded with me every day not to leave him. I insisted he call the OW on his cell phone and tell her it was over. He did. He put the phone on speaker and, unfortunately, got her voice mail. I know it was her number he got because I picked up his phone and dialed it myself. Anyway, he sounded like he was choking on his tongue, but he told her not to contact him again and not to leave any messages for him again because it was causing him more trouble than he needed.

This Tuesday he had his phone number changed. I checked his former number and it has been totally cancelled. I also got a copy of his August bill, and he had spoken to her a total of 52 times after we had a huge argument about how I felt about him contacting her at all on August 3rd.
I confronted him about all the phone conversations, and he told me he didn't know why he did it all the while still denying it was/is an affair. I guess he thinks I'm stupid. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> How could it have been anyting else? He was involved in investigations in his former position, but he has been transferred out of that department at my insisting since July 30th. There would have been no need to have that many contacts over 2 cases going on at all even if he needed to "wrap up loose ends" as he is preferring to call this affair. Some of those phone calls were made at 4 AM while I was asleep, and some were made while he was away from home on "business", and most of them were made when I was at work. In fact, looking at the phone bill, on D-day when I intercepted the message from her, he had contacted her after calling me to confirm I was on my way out of town to work that day. The bill shows he contacted me at 6:59 am and her at 7:08 am. Then he contacted her again at 9:00 am, 1:00 pm and 1:45 pm. There would be no reason for all those contacts unless he was doing something he shouldn't, but still he refuses to confess. He does state he was being "stupid".

We had another huge argument after I received that phone bill. I was able to retrieve it online Friday morning, and I called to wake him up at 5:00 am. He was out of town with his job. He said he was just being stupid over and over still not confessing to the affair. I guess he thinks he can talk in code to try to confuse me, but I'm not the one who is confused. He kept saying over and over how he wishes he could take away the pain he has caused me over this and that he will spend the rest of his life apolgizing to me if I will let him. He said he put an end to any contact and just needs us to "get over this and let it die." I told him he wasn't the one who got to decide when or if to let it die since he was the one who had an affair. I told him it was up to me if I chose to let it go and that I just didn't trust him. He then said he regrets losing my trust and wants me to give him a chance to earn it back. He said he "got it" that he hurt me very bad and has a chance of losing me. He kept begging me to give him time to prove to me that I'm the love of his life.

He was here today. He kept hugging me and trying to cling to me. I would go into the office and lock the door. He came knocking asking if he could speak to me. I opened the door, probably shouldn't have, and he kept hugging me asking for forgiveness. I didn't hug him back, couldn't make myself put my arms around him--didn't want to. He's gone now.

He keeps calling me though telling me over and over how much he loves me and how much he knows he screwed up.

I think he is just trying to run over me and railroad me into a quick forgiveness of such a huge transgression. It's not that easy. How do I know he is even sincere?

Please, give me your thoughts on this behavior. I'm not in a clear place to judge this right now. Is he trying to be sincere? Am I just too stubborn by the big blow of finally confirming what I suspected? What are your recommendations?

Thanks.

Polygraph.

If you have any doubt about his being 100% honest at this point, ask him to submit to a polygraph as a means to HELP rebuild trust.

Watch his face when you ask! It will be priceless. He said he wants to be able to PROVE things...well, that would be a start.

Read Dr. Harley's article on Forgiveness ("Can't we just Forgive and Forget") with 'just compensation' concepts.

He sounds like my WH after our many Devastation Days. Story in my sig line....it's not pretty. I know what you're feeling.

Are you able to get individual or marriage counseling? (Sorry I haven't read your other thread in JFO yet).

I wish I had read this article before I did everything wrong....and ended up with multiple false recoveries. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> If my mistakes can help you, I'm glad to share.

Ace

Tell him forgiveness, trust, and another chance will come AFTER he has PROVEN himself repentant, trustworthy, and cured of his problem. And this will not come quickly either. If he's only interested in instant forgiveness and trust tell him you're not interested.

And it doesn't really matter if he says he's going to apologize forever... unless he proves he's changed, compensates for the damage he's caused, and rebuilds your trust with accountability.

How long have you been married?

I would find out if the OW has a husband, and let him know what his wifey is up to.

How long was the affair? Was it physical?

We have been married over 18 years. The OW is not married. She moved into this area July 2007 and they hit things off immediately. July and August they had tons of communication. I know of 2 in person meetings alone, but I don't know if it became physical or not. He, of course, denies it all. Her message is more than a coworker leaving a message and much more friendly than a friend would leave, especially only knowing each other a little over 2 months. The 52 calls in August alone is much more than work related, especially at 4 AM, but he still denies it all.

He keeps giving me a stupid reason for the phone calls as he is just an outgoing person who "talks" to people he knows a lot--right. He talked to me maybe 5-6 minutes average per phone call througout August. The phone calls to her were 15 minutes to an hour long. Totally inappropriate no matter how you look at them.

He is just being the typical WS. They almost always deny it because they are don't want to hurt the BS and are afraid of losing them.

Let him know that the only way your marriage is going to recover is when he starts answering all your questions truthfully.

Also, the two of you need to be living together while working through this.

He still lives here. His job just takes him out of town every other day. It's not something we can change. He's been with this organization for 18 years, and will be retiring after 11 more years.

Up until July he never behaved the way he has when this woman moved into this area. He gave up the job he had that put him in daily contact with her (I insisted on this) for a job in the company that takes him away from contact with her at all except by phone which he took full advantage of.

I don't understand how he could behave this way. We had a wonderful marriage up to this point. We have always been close, did everything together, went on weekly dates, and had a very active sex life. We have even had friends say they wished they could have a relationship like the one we had. How he could do this is beyond me.

He probably started working with her closely and got attached emotionally. It happens.

He really needs to write her a no contact letter. It should say that he loves you, made a horrible mistake, and never wants contact with her again for any reason. Then you should send it to her.

Thanks for your help. I will require him to do this when he gets home from his trip tomorrow. If he gives me grief over it then that shows me he cares very little about this marriage.

There is a better example here somewhere. I think Melody has it.

This is the one Melodylane posted on Jayban's thread.


Dr. Harley (From SAA)

(OP), I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that (BS) did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay (BS) for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely,
(WS)

The odd thing is that often, WS's who are not serious about recovery, will refuse to send a NC letter. It would be easy to send it and then have contact anyway, but instead, they just refuse to send it. I look at it as the litmus test of wanting to make amends.

Thank you. So, do you think making him call her and tell her not to contact him ever again was not the right thing to do? I was so angry with him I demanded he do it on the spot when I found out. It looks like the preferred method is written instead.

Reading your posts, I did notice something that will not work. He still talks to her on occasion at work. Is that correct? It is very important that they never see each other OR talk to each other for any reason FOREVER.

It was not a mistake to make him call her. But I would ask him to write the cold NC letter. That will reinforce that the whole thing was a terrible MISTAKE and he regrets it.

Have you exposed to family and friends yet?

SPECIFICALLY you need to tell family and friends about him calling her at 4:00AM - do THEY agree with his excuse that is something normal, or can just be explained away because he's a talkative person?

Also, I can't remember if you've exposed to his/her boss yet?

"The 52 calls in August alone is much more than work related, especially at 4 AM, but he still denies it all."

That's totally ridiculous! Both the fact that he made all those calls AND also the fact that he's trying to convince you that YOU are crazy for not accepting his BS about it somehow being normal!!!

I would ask some other people, right in front of him, whether or not THEY think this is normal or innocent bahavior for a married man?!?!? The next time you and WH are together with friends or family just bring it up and let your husband deal with their expressions and responses! Just say somethign like: "We want your feedback on something we've been trying to come to agreement on... WS has been calling OW, I object, but WS thinks it's harmless... Would YOU guys think it's abnormal for a married person to call an opposite sex coworker 52 times in one month, call them at 4:00AM?" Also mention that he changed his phone number and ask them what they think motivated him to do that...

WS's typically try to gaslight the BS into believing their inappropriate choices are OK. And the WS counts on the secrecy, the isolation of the BS in trying to evaluate and confront this on their own, to work in favor of enabling the adultery to continue. But exposure usually throws a huge stumbling block in the path of the adulterer's attempts to con the BS into accepting the ridiculous.

MM...while I like the concept of putting WS on the spot like that... I can imagine that it would be very awkward for friends to be blindsided and put into that position.

He KNOWS what he is doing is wrong...he is just trying to pull the wool over her eyes...bottom line is...she knows, he knows...there is no reason to prove it. But I would expose the crapp out of it.

I haven't called his boss yet, or hers. I'm not quite sure who to call for her since she technically works under a different department than he did when he worked in that area. I know that probably doesn't make sense right now. However, I did speak to his best friend who is one of his supervisors right now about it. He kept saying but she's in the legal department. I guess he didn't know how to comprehend it either. He's a good man though, and has been a friend to both of us for a long time. I believe he will help me if I ask him to snoop for me.

My husband is in a different department totally from this woman now. His new position requires him to be out of town 180 miles away every other day with other men up to 18 hours a shift, he is never alone in this new job. I don't really want to say what type work he does. The only way he would ever see or speak to her again is if he freely chooses to do so. I have told him in no certain terms he is not to have any contact with her whatsoever. I also told him any contact with her would be an immediate deal breaker between the two of us and he would be out.

What do you all make of him volunteering to change his phone number? Do you think he did this to avoid the temptation to call her, or do you think he did this thinking I wouldn't catch the next bill? He says it's to prove I can trust him because she would not have access to his new number. He has asked me to wait until his next bill comes out so I can see he is keeping his word about no contact. He is ignorant if he thinks this will settle everything and I will quit investigating everything he is in to now.

I feel like I'm married to a complete stranger.