Hi, I'm new here, been lurking a week or two after gleaning some very valuable information from the main MB website.

Just some things I'm puzzled about.....is it common for WS's to go out of the way to mislead the BS about the nature of the relationship with the OW? Is it possible to have no feelings for the OW after some years have passed, and to think it is okay to have contact with her husband and children? My WH actually became friends with the OW's husband after the EA/PA ended....how strange is that? Anyway, I realise that all this sounds confusing. I have started at the end so I will attempt to tell my long and sad story from the beginning. Hope you will bear with me.

My H had an EA (so he says..."only" kissed and fondled OW)about 13 years ago. Yes, this is a long-term thing. It was a woman he worked with whom he hated at first, but then they started working directly together, making excuses to do calls together until even his boss told him it was inappropriate. This he admitted to me with some annoyance, as if "how dare my boss reprimand me", whilst all the time maintaining it was only friendship. I, the young, naive wife, chose to believe him, but did not feel very comfortable about it. OW seemed way too familiar with my H, and did too many things for her. They started karate lessons together, without including me (EN - recreational activities) and my H was coaching her son in baseball, so more time together. He even tried to make me be friends with her! She was also married, but she and her H were on again off again. My H and I were married 8 years before starting our family, and the day I came home with our new baby (Feb 1993), guess who was the first visitor? OW, who chooses that day to announce loudly that she's NOT having an affair with my husband! Nice one that! All the tact and good breeding I would have expected. Well, the marriage was taking strain...new baby....I was building up a successful career....husband unexpectedly had a heart attack at the age of 32 with no warning (baby was 9 months old), and OW was at my H's bedside almost as much as I was. A few months afterwards, once recovered, my H moved out, telling me he was (wait for it!) confused, and did not know how he felt about me. He visited our daughter a lot though, and about two months after moving out (stayed with his parents), he asked to come back home, but was first going on a little holiday to the coast for a week, after which time he'd like to move back (July 1994). Some people had mentioned certain things to me though, so I checked up and found that OW was also away! (she and her H had recently seperated too). I booked a plane ticket and a hire car to go and do a little snooping, OW was there, driving in our van with him, as were her three children and her friends children. OW and her friend and their respective children were staying in a different place, but meeting up with my H during the day, and they had travelled by car to the coast together. I confronted both of them, OW got in WH's car and left with the children. WH begged me not to leave him, and said that there was nothing between them (no, they just happened to be holidaying at the same time in the same place!!). Anyway, I allowed myself to be persuaded and we returned home together. Stupidly of me (I did not know about MB then), I took him at his word, and I am not generally a jealous or naturally mistrusting person, so he pretty much got off scot-free! He moved back home,and then my mom died suddenly, so I was totally off balance again. (I often felt resentful of him for giving me a hard time at that point so that I was not there for my mom like I wanted to be). Around that time, my brother and his family had moved back into the area from another state, and were temporarily living with us. My brother was a restless sleeper, and mentioned that several times, late at night when he'd go for a glass of water, my H would be sitting in the dark with the phone. (Before cell phones...but we had a cordless phone). My brother organised a landline taping device from a friend of his and set it up for me. That particular night, I was sleeping with the baby in her bedroom as she was ill. The next day my brother, very worried, came to fetch me at work and said that he'd checked the phone recording device out as he was not sure it had worked, and I should hear it. Well, it had worked only too well....some things on that tape I'll never forget...it added a few scars to my soul. When my H came home from work, I just started playing the recording for him. He went white, and started to try and explain it away. I literally threw him out with his clothes in a black, plastic bag. Then I called his mother and told her (exposure...I did something right!) During this time, OW's husband called me and we had a long talk about what was going on, but neither of us came to any conclusions as to what to do. He sounded like a nice man. H and I were apart another few weeks..he kept visiting our daughter and eventually I started speaking to him again. Stupidly, I again wanted to believe him and took him back too easily, with no conditions. I did insist on NC, but blindly trusted him and did not check up often. Things calmed down a little for a few years...not terribly happy, but calm. We had a DS in 1995. In 1999/2000, another flare up! The landline would ring, if anyone but WH picked it up, it was put down in their ear. If he answered when I was around, he'd pretend it was a wrong number. Then I noticed what I called a "phone alert". The phone would ring about 3 times, then go off. Shortly afterwards, WH would disappear with the cordless phone. I kept careful note of WH's calls, and his absences during this time. At about 3am on Christmas morning in 1999, there was banging on our front door and a blaring horn in the driveway, but by the time we opened up, whoever was there was gone. (I later found out that it was OW's son, in a panic because his mother/OW had assaulted his father and was in police custody, and they wanted WH's help)...Nice friends you keep, dear! We had another big blow up then, but somehow the jail story did not sit well with WH, and he seemed to have NC with OW for some time. (He told me that it was OW's son who kept phoning, to get help with his maths as he was writing his final exams at school, but he felt I would not allow it due to past history with OW, so he felt it was best to deceive me...again!) He always sounds so plausible, and sadly, I always chose to believe him...can't believe how deluded I was! Meanwhile, the marriage had been limping along, passably happily and peacefully, and we had a DD in January 2001. The last few years have been relatively peaceful, but not what I have wanted in a marriage....I've always struggled with the trust issue, and carried a lot of resentment along the way, which I now realise was a futile waste of time. Things finally came to a head about two months ago. WH had been too much of what I now know as an independent, secret life, making inane excuses, barely believable, and disappearing for hours on end. Also, I had found 2 checks made out to the OW for fairly large amounts of money, and was in the process of snooping around to see what else I could find. Then, the final straw! A young lady at church approached me and told me that she'd had a disturbing dream that WH and I had split up, and he was with some "Floozie". I confronted WH right after church....another unbelievable story....he'd broken down in his car about 3 years ago, and OW's husband had stopped to help him, and the two of them had become friends! A short while later, OW's husband had a stroke which immobilized him, and 18 months ago he'd had two more strokes and was very ill. WH had apparently been going there to visit him. The checks were to pay some of his medical expenses, which he says, OW has since repaid.I knew none of this until now, he says because he knows there should have been NC, but justifies it all by saying that he and the OW's husband had become friends. Sadly, the OW's husband just died on Saturday. I am in the position of feeling bad and guilty, he had a hard life with the OW on and off and I am sad this happened to him. My WH got the message on Saturday to say he'd just died.

After this last confrontation with WH 8 weeks ago, where he told me about the OW's sick husband, he has changed completely! He's now joined the Men's Group at our church which he always refused to do before...we've been church-going the last few years, and I've always had a deep faith in God, part of the reason why divorce is distasteful to me, but WH always seemed to just be playing the part. What seems to have happened now is that he has experienced some deep convictions about his behaviour and the wrongfulness of it, and about his relationship to God and me. He is treating me as well as he did when we were dating, and suddenly seems very much interested in me, in every way! From almost no physical intimacy in our marriage, he now seems to find it hard to keep away from me! (I must mention that I have not recently changed anything about myself, or lost weight...for the past two years I have very carefully looked after myself and lost a lot of weight then, I am in fact now a personal trainer and in pretty good shape, but he did not appear to care at the time). He does not go away from home with lame excuses like previously, and he is careful to let me know wherever he is. His behaviour has changed to the extent that it is almost unbelievable, just what I have always wanted, but I can't help feeling suspicious. He told me that since our last confrontation 2 months ago, he likes himself for the first time in years! He feels he is rebuilding his relationship with me and with God. He told OW no more contact 8 weeks ago (even though he was apparently just visiting with the sick husband), but last Tuesday night just after 11pm his cellphone, on the dresser rang, and it was OW to tell him that her husband was about to die. I was with him and his back went very rigid when he heard her voice. I asked him what the OW wanted him to do, to go there and be with her in the hospital? He was quite adamant that her children and family must be with her now and not him as he does not want to lose what he now has in our marriage. On Thursday morning on his way to work, OW phoned him and asked him to come and pray for her husband (He had done it before, after the first stroke), and he gave her the number of a priest to contact who did go and pray. On his way home on Thursday evening, OW phoned again and asked again that he come and pray for her husband. He stopped by and did that (was only a few minutes late home, and told me about it later, which for him was a step up as he'd always concealed stuff like that before). On Saturday afternoon, the poor man passed away, and OW sent out messages to everyone, including my H, and her sister phoned a half hour late to confirm that he knew. He was a little emotional about it, and we had a discussion. I was, perhaps selfishly, worried that now OW's husband is gone, there is less to stand in their way (on her part anyway as she has always seemed emotionally dependent on my H), but he is adamant that he is happy now and does not want to be involved with her again. I know he will want to go to the funeral, I would feel selfish to stop him....in fact I have felt selfish about this whole thing, that I have been worried about my marriage when this poor man is dying in the prime of his life, and I wouold have preferred my husband not to be involved at all.

Where do I go from here? This relationship with OW I can see now has never totally ended from 1993 to now. I'm confused as to how to take the change in my husband. He is very willing to go through the MB material with me, and keeps telling me that he is not going to talk, just show me with his actions that he is sincere. Sadly, now that he is becoming the man I always dreamed of, I am suspicious and I would love to enjoy the way he is, but am scared to. I am left with a peculiar hopeful feeling mixed with suspicion...very weird. I want to give him another chance, but am afraid to be hurt yet again. I'm really sorry this is so long. I felt I had to explain the background before asking for advice. Hopefully I can get some good advice here as I feel totally off balance again. Not sure what to do!

Hi Faithinlove,

Welcome to MB!


YES yes yes.


Possible? I suppose so. Likely? Not on your life!!


That's probably rhetorical, but it's not that unusual either. Friendship without boundaries is a common theme.


I guess I've been here too long LOL....because it actually sounds pretty ordinary for what happens here.

But I think you're asking the wrong questions. Your focus is on the past....asks some questions that you need answered to focus on today and tommorrow.

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The Harleys suggest no contact for life between former adulterors. I would ask hubby to write a no contact letter.

Also he needs to skip the funeral - as that is just one more chance for the OW to dig her claws into him.

Doesn't he find it hypocritical to attend the funeral of a man he disrespected the last 14 years?

Can't he leave that poor man in peace?

He came between that man and his wife. He does not belong there.

Please always break your posts into paragraphs so they are easier to read and follow.

My husband did not attend a funeral of a friend whose wife was a close friend and confidant to his former OW. We sent a plant instead. We both felt it important because it was likely OW would have attended the funeral as well. It is that important that he maintain no contact with OW for life.

I am glad you found MB. You have a chance to have a better marriage than you had before your H started his LTA.

Trix, sorry about the long post with no paragraphs, will do better next time. Thanks for all your replies.

This story is getting more bizarre as time goes on. My H phoned me a little while ago and told me that the funeral is on Thursday, and wait for it, at our church with the ceremony to be performed by our pastor! Apparently the priest who prayed for OW's H on Thursday is from the church next door to ours, and he could not do the funeral this week, so he has requested our pastor to do it.

OW's family has requested that my H meet with them at our church today so that he can introduce them to the pastor as they do not know him. They are not a church-going family and have never been to our church or any church that I know of. By the time you guys read this, he will probably have introduced them to the pastor, but I know he will not be able to stay around there as he has a business meeting set up quite a long distance away.

I feel very uncomfortable about this whole thing. I'm sorry the OW's husband was so ill and has died, and I feel bad about insisting that my H (who genuinely seems upset about it) not go to the funeral, (he says) to pay his last respects to a man that seemed to become his friend even after the A between my H and his W.I know that probably sounds crazy, and I sound like a wimp as this OW has really messed up my life over the past 13 years. Obviously why I have let him get away with it for so long..what an idiot!

He says that he will end all contact with OW right after the funeral, but I have a feeling that she does not want to give up so easily...after all, she no longer has a H.

Anyway, I hear you all. I would also prefer him to skip the funeral. Do I insist on this, and what if he still goes? What is my next step?

Faith,

A some point, your H has to show you some respect for the pain he's caused you, and introductions to the pastor, attending the funeral, etc. is a HUGE slap in your face and VERY disrespectful of your feelings.

Personally, it is something that I would not tolerate in ANY shape, form or fashion.

Are you sure your husband had nothing to do with the funeral being at your church?

If I were you, I would let psator know that your husband had an affair with the OW, and maybe HE can encourage your husband to skip the funeral.

The OW is not going to give up now. She would like to take YOUR husband to replace hers. I would start setting some boundaries. I'm afraid the two of them will think of one thing after another to stay in contact.

His attending the funeral is grossly inappropriate. If he wants to pay his respects, he can visit the grave afterwards and express his regret and loss in solitude.

I agree with the previous poster. He NEEDS to start showing you respect or he is going to be mourning another death...the death of your marriage.

Thanks everyone, that is exactly how I feel. I will tell him tonight and see what reaction I get.

I say tell the pastor FIRST, and then suggest that your husband speaks to him about what his "duties" really are. I believe you should treat this as an ACTIVE affair....because as long as there is ANY contact....IT IS.

Absolutely tell your Pastor exactly what your husbands relationship with this family was.

Pay his respects???? RESPECT????
Respect would have been to stay away from this poor man's WIFE.

Ok, well I did speak to WH last night, have not spoken to the pastor. Only read your posts after the fact.

H seems distressed at the thought of not attending the funeral. He keeps saying that he just wants to get past this funeral and then there will be no more contact because he was just going around to see OW's H as they were friends. Something I cannot comprehend is this friendship...either OW's H was a VERY forgiving man, or his brain was addled. He did know about the A as he phoned me for a long conversation about it 13 years ago. Anyway, my H claims they became friends before he got ill.

My H says that he feels that he must respect my wishes, but it is unhappily and begrudgingly which angers me as it should be a no brainer in my book. The reason most people attend funerals is really to show support for the family of the dead person, and I feel my H owes them (OW) nothing. He seems more interested in not offending them than continuing to hurt me, his (Longsuffering) wife!

Herein lies my confusion: since the last D-Day in July when the young lady at church told me about her dream and we had a major confrontation, my H has changed remarkably in his treatment of me (FAR more loving, attentive and interested), and in his spiritual life. Others have seen a big attitude change. He has not disappeared alone for unexplained hours at all, he either takes me or one of the children wherever he goes. This is the H I've always wanted! He tells me he knows he’s made bad mistakes, and that he loves me and is happier now than he’s been for a long time. Also that he likes himself now where he had not liked himself before. He told OW 8 weeks ago NC, and as far as I know, there was NC until she phoned him at 11pm last Tuesday night to tell him that her H was dying. I was with my H then, and he told me about it when he put the phone down. Previously he would have hidden it from me and made some excuse (maybe a work callout) to go to the hospital to support OW. He did not go rushing off to her like in the past, and when she phoned him last Thursday morning to come and pray, he referred the request to a priest he knows to avoid involvement. However OW phoned him again for prayer and he did stop by on his way home from work Thursday evening for about 10 minutes.

We were away at a church camp on Saturday when he got the call to tell him OW’s H had died. The rest of the story we’ve been discussing here is him introducing OW’s family to our pastor, and the funeral saga. It seems like he has been trying the NC, but has been sucked in with this guys sad death again. I also feel that as much as he (my H) may say he’s no longer interested in the OW, SHE does not take this seriously, and will keep finding ways to draw him in.

My questions are, if he loves me as he says he does, then why has the NC been broken so many times, for whatever feeble reason there may be? I don’t believe that there has been a PA this last cycle, and he denies even an EA now, just insists that he and the OW’s H were friends and that was the contact now. After being lied to so often before, I don’t believe this now, but is it possible that he could have been friends with this man with nothing constituting an A with the OW? Why would his behaviour towards me have changed so drastically for the better after our last confrontation? Is it possible that it is an elaborate scheme to throw me off the scent? How common is this? (Anyway, after the way he’s been acting with me, I don’t think he could possibly have enough strength left for any OW!!)

Sorry this is once again so long. I’m really confused about the nature of his A with OW. First D-Day was July 1994; second D-Day was January 2000 and latest D-Day was July 2007. As for the gaps inbetween, I’ve no idea what, if anything was going on then. It seems like a horrible nightmare! Will it ever end?

This just makes me ill. Your H has no business going to the funeral of a man he treated so disrepsectfully in life. Your H has maintained an affair with his wife for years with his continued contact. You don't know if it is true that the OM "forgave" him, and even so, how can one "forgive" when the other has not repented? sheesh To imagine that this dead man would want his wife's LOVER at his funeral is a fantasy that could only be concocted by a warped, wayward mind.

For him to go is profoundly DISRESPECTUL to you, the deceased, and to the OWH's family. That would be spitting in his coffin.

If your H truly wants to make amends to this man, he will stay away from him and never see his mistress again. NEVER. It would be a KINDNESS to not darken his funeral with his presence.

Faith, please tell your H this, since he is so fogged out from his affair that he can't see it. I would most certainly tell the pastor how very inappropriate and disrespectful it is for your H to attend.

I suspect the reason your H wants to attend the funeral is a) to comfort the OW and b) to effect a FALSE FRONT that he is the OWH's "friend" to others

Also, Faith, consider this. Someday your husband may recover from this affair and come back to his senses. He will be GRIEFSTRICKEN to recall that he did something so disrespectul and shameful as attending this man's funeral. Your H is under the spell of an addictive affair which makes his mentality the same as a falling down drunk. When he sobers up, if ever, he will be SICK WITH GRIEF.

Do you want the OW to come to your funeral and comfort your H?

p.s. one of the reasons this affair has gone on so long is that is has never been exposed to the whole family. Had it been exposed, it likely would have died out years ago. Affairs thrive on SECRECY.

GO...TELL....YOUR...PASTOR!

Thanks for your comments MelodyLane. However, my H did not go to the funeral after all as he is currently in hospital with suspected appendicitis! This happened yesterday when he started to have severe pain in his abdomen. He was booked into hospital and was in having tests when the funeral happened.

I have mixed feelings about all this. Should it be appendicitis (don't know yet if it is and if he will have the op tomorrow), then I'm sorry and I take all my suspicions back. I have a feeling however that much of it is stress-related as we had a tough conversation on Tuesday night about me not wanting him to attend the funeral. As I mentioned before, he was somewhat distressed about this but reluctantly agreed that it was probably for the best not to attend. The next day he was hospitalized and the decision was taken out of his hands. I feel terrible thinking all this, but nothing surprises me anymore after all the years of lies!

He did tell me that before he was hospitalized, he did tell OW that he would not attend the funeral beacause he was ill and may be hospitalized, which is not the same thing as telling her "I'm not coming out of respect for your husband and my wife, and please don't call me ever again!". Then he told her when he was hospitalized where he was. I half expected her to show up after the funeral as the church is practically next door to the hospital, but thankfully she was not quite that tactless. He's still there tomorrow though.... I feel the way he did not attend the funeral leaves the door open for her to believe that he is not serious about the no contact, she'll justify it by thinking "well he was in hospital", instead of "he really meant what he said about no funeral and NC". That would have sent a clearer message to her.

I think his problem is more stress-related as it seems that the pain has almost gone, and there is a good chance he won't have the appendix removed tomorrow. That's where we stand now. I did tell him that he has to make it clear to OW about the NC with immediate effect. The funeral is now over, and that is what he wanted to be over, he does not need any further contact for ANY reason whatsoever! (not that it was ever justified!)

I hope you are right that he is serious about NC.

Were you at OW's house while OWH was dying? How do you know he wasn't there just to comfort OW?

I would not trust anything your H says until you are absolutely sure by all his actions that he is really in NC with the OW and the affair is over.

It sounds like he has been quite addicted to living a secret second life for many years.

You need to be lots firmer than you've been regarding NC. You also need the whole truth about the history of this affair before you can really begin working on recovery.

Have you shared anything with your WH regarding Harley's concept of Radical Honesty?

Trix

I've had NC with OW since 1994 (1st D-Day). He probably was there to comfort OW....I did not even know that OW's H had suffered these strokes until 8 weeks ago.

You're quite right I need the whole truth about the history of the affair! What he swears is the whole truth I have trouble believing...I feel there is a lot I don't know.

I have shared all the Harley's basic concepts with him, but have not as yet gone into detail with the Radical Honesty policy. That right there is the key to it all! He has been repeatedly dishonest over years, and has had a secret second life for many years. He tries to say that he did not tell me about the 1999/2000 incidents and contact, and the latest 2007 contacts as he knew it would upset me because of the past history...go figure!! Why on earth would I be upset??? He obviously knew all along that this was wrong but did it anyway!

I'm getting to the point where I know I can't do this anymore! I've been such a sucker all these years. When I say that I don't want to do this anymore, he begs me not to leave him, says he loves me and wants our marriage to work, yet he still maintains contact with OW for whatever reason despite the damage it causes! I just don't get it!

I DO get it. He has TWO WOMEN meeting his needs and does not want to give that up. He does not HAVE to give that up. Any man would be insane to give that up voluntarily. So, he will continue to do so as long as he can. He knows you won't really leave.

Maybe you're right MelodyLane. What's the answer? Do I pack up and leave or tell him to leave?

He's out of hospital now with no operation needed, and he seems fine to me. The stress of the funeral situation is over, and he had a good excuse not to attend. He also has not seen or heard from OW since Wednesday. He's being ultra-loving to me, and making sure that he takes all phone calls in front of me and so on.