Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking too, that she might be able to confirm suspicions and verify things. She is living in another state, so its quite possible (likely even) that she has no inclination of what is going on, however, its also possible that she's noticed some things and just not known enough to put it all together.

The thing that I hate about it is that I can't prove it, and even though I know what I know and in my heart there is no doubt, there is in reality a doubt, everything she has told me is technically possible, I could just be married to the most unlucky person in the world who had all the cards and evidence line up against her to make it look like she's cheating! I can't say to the OM GF "this is 100% undeniable". I hate to mess someone else's world up with there being that possibility, however unlikely I feel it to be.

I do want to know very badly what she would think of this. She's gotta know SOMETHING, or be able to find it out of she is able to start looking without the OM having a clue that she's been tipped off.

As always, I appreciate the thoughts and the fact that you all are taking your time to help me.

TYK, its also possible that she knows about the affair but just doesn't know how to get ahold of you or may not think she needs to tell you. Some folks, wrongly, believe it is an act of love to hide adultery. You would be doing her a great favor if you tipped her off so she could get checked. STDs can easily lead to cervical cancer, and even death.

TYK,

YOU are MISSING the most important part of my post. His GF NEEDS to be checked to see if she has contracted herpes. She needs to make sure her BF doesn't have herpes.

You have gotten herpes from your W. You suspect that they are having an affair. Whether that is true or not is not the issue. THe issue is that your W may have given OM herpes (if you believe her story), and thus GF is now being exposed.

It is the proper thing to do. AND you might learn a few things as well, such as if OM has herpes, then the odds go way up that your W contracted them from him.

Do this lady a favor and alert her to the "possibility" that she may be getting exposed via your W. You don't have to PROVE anything. This lady needs to get checked and she needs to make sure her BF is checked.

Does this make sense? I hope so.

God Bless,

JL

No, I understand that aspect of it as well, and while I do think it is the right thing to do, the same issues still apply. I don't KNOW that my wife exposed him or her to herpes, as much as I believe it. She does deserve the opportunity to get tested, I do believe that.

So you all don't think it is wrong to contact her without proof? I still have some reservations about this.

In regards to having to know the truth, even without her admitting it, if I knew that my wife had an affair and that it was undeniably over, that she regretted it and was wanting to work on our marriage, if I knew those things, I could move on without a word from her about it. However, I can't know those things without her telling me, can I?

I also believe that it is important for her to tell me for HER sake. I know that she knows she has wronged me, and I think that as much as anything else is the cause of the anger within her. She has to justify her actions to herself, to do that she puts it on me. She can't stop doing that until she faces the truth. She can't truly believe that I can forgive her and move past this until she trusts me enough to tell me.

Would she be willing to take a polygraph to prove her innocence? What evidence do you have that has led you to believe she had an affair with this guy?

I doubt it regarding the polygraph. Much of the evidence is listed in the first post. I was pretty sure of it before the herpes, in my mind that confirmed my suspicions.

As far as definite links to this guy, they are all circumstantial, but it all points to him. She works with him. Hours and hours of phone conversations going on for months that she tried to hide. Absolutely no knowledge of this person as the "friendship" developed. One confirmed siting of her alone in a bar with him when she was supposedly out for a "work party".

Tyk, that evidence in addition to the STD would be enough to convince me. Because of the STD, I would take it to the OM's GF and alert her so she can get tested.

In the meantime, you can't force your wife to work on your marriage with you, but you can try to attract her back into the marriage and hope she will be honest with you. Have you shown her Josephs letter?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3153654

Does she still see the OM?

Ya, she see's him, she works with him!

I would give her that letter, but it seems more intended for a WS that has admitted to the A but is refusing to provide details regarding it.

If I gave her that right now, she would look at me angrily and tell me she didn't know what it was referring to.

Can I get some help with the title of this thread?

My Username is a name I have used elsewhere and that my wife is familiar with. I think it was poor judgement for me to use it here. JustKim (or anyone else with the ability to do so), could I ask you to edit the title of this thread to "New Member" needs help"?

Thank you and sorry to be a pita.

Tyk,
I believe you have your head in the sand a bit here. And I say that as a person who did the same sort of thing. You are making excuses not to confront by saying "well, it might not be him". You say you are sure she is having an affair, but evidence pointing to him is circumstantial. The fact that she kept her friendship and phone calls to him hidden from you and was SEEN in a bar with him by herself is more than enough for you to act.

My first clue to my wife's infidelity (other than her withdrawing from me) was a cellphone bill with his number showing up an inordinate number of times. I asked her about it and let her convince me that he was just a friend. That started a 3 week period where she continually lied to me and I gave her the benefit of the doubt. When I finally saw what I needed to see, you now what? It was that guy all along.

Your brain tries to tell you the evidence is circumstantial, but your gut tells you otherwise. Follow your gut. You need to tell the OM's GF to get tested just so you can give her a chance to avoid contracting a lifelong STD. Maybe she has it already, but you will at least have tried. And as a previous poster said, if she does have it or she learns that the OM has it, you have gone beyond "circumstantial".

Yes, you are right, and I have struggled with this "circumstantial evidence" vs. "proof" for quite some time. There is no doubt what I believe, no one who knows the details in my personal life has a shred of doubt either. But this is such an important issue that I really hesitate to make a mistake. If I make the call, and someway, somehow, I am wrong, it is going to be a difficult, if not impossible mistake to recover from. It is not exposure I fear. I long for it. It is not being able to back up what I am saying with cold hard fact that makes me hesitate.

I have also just today run into a couple potential sources of information through her work. I was talking to a close friend of mine and it just so happens that he is good friends with two people that work with my wife. One actually works in her building! They are on thier honeymoon now and will be back next week. I'm hopeful that they may have heard something and be willing to share. Its a long shot, but to have someone on the inside could be invaluable.

Just so you all know, I have had to change my display name. I became paranoid that my wife would get curious about this forum and didn't want this post to catch her eye.

If she reads it anyway, well, all she'll have now is "circumstantial evidence", right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Here is the thing, TYK, if you err on the side of caution, you could be jeopardizing the OM's GF health and your MARRIAGE. On the other hand, I disagree that this would be impossible to recover from if you are wrong. [which I doubt] Your wife has placed you in this precarious position through her lies and transmission of a STD. You have good reason to believe she is a) having an affair and b) lying about it.

Given that, I wonder why you don't hire a PI ASAP and put this all to rest? If I were in your shoes, I would hire him to start Friday, and try to get the goods by the time you call OM GF next week.

How much should one expect to pay for a P.I.? I have considered it, I have balked mainly because I assumed they were rather expensive and it would be hard for me to hide a large expense. Plus, I keep thinking I'll catch her on my own or she'll come clean! (ya, I know, idiot!) For the last month or more I have been pretty convinced that the A is either over or at least not active and if that is true its going to be very hard for me to catch her (hard for a P.I. too I suspect, but they'll have a better chance than me).

I am beginning to understand. I KNOW what is going on. I can't prove it to a judge, but there's no doubt here. There hasn't been for 6 months!

I don't know what the ****** I'm doing, I haven't known what to do for so long that I can't even recognize what to do when its placed in front of me! I've talked to my friends, they are sympathetic, they feel terrible for what I'm going through, but they don't know what to tell me to DO.

Forever I've wished for someone to just tell me the RIGHT thing to do to fix this.

And its all right here, on this site. There's very little disagreement about it, there is a set way this works, and if it doesn't work, its not like I've had any better ideas.

I will be calling the OM GF tomorrow.

Thank you so much for guiding me with such patience.

Ty,

We look forward to hearing from you. I hope that comparing notes with the OM's GF will provide you with the information you need to expose the affair to the other people who may be able to help you.

As you suspect, there are no guarantees when it comes to affairs. All of the options are difficult, but those of us who have been here for any length of time have seen results with Harley's strategies. I like them because they are logical and proactive. Affairs can be paralyzing and as you've discovered.....most people are confused about what can be done.

Ty, I think you have made the right decision. You know what happened, there is no need to allow the affair to proceed as if you didn't. The OM GF needs to be warned and maybe this will bring things to a much needed head. You can expect great fury from your W over this exposure, but rest assured it will blow over. The typical wayward threatens "I was going to work on the marriage, but now I'm not; the threats are pretty standard. The threats are designed to scare you away from interfering in her affair. Just imagine you have taken the crack pipe away from the crack head and you will understand.

But your marriage can survive some temporary anger, so don't let it scare you. The real threat to your marriage is the affair, not her anger at your interference.

The next place I would focus is on getting her to leave her job. There will be no recovery - EVER - until she leaves the job and cuts off all contact with the OM. This is something I would pursue with her immediately.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Yes, I am aware of the NC rule. I will have to focus on that hurdle when I get to it, there's no sense talking about NC when she won't even admit to the A.

I tried calling the OM's GF this morning, I left a voicemail requesting that she call me back and that it was important but no information other than that. We shall see what happens.

Once again, could I PLEASE get someone to remove "TYK" from this title?

I can't use the PM function to contact an administrator for some reason, it just says that the personal message function is disabled.

I have shared some of Harley's philosophy about marriage and such with my wife and I am afraid that she will get curious and come check it out.

Thanks!