It was sugested to me to repost this over here. I posted this on the EN side and was told you guys might be able to help me more.

I really don't know where to begin but I hope this makes sense.

Earlier this year my wife and i were preparing to move and i was about to make a big career change. I was leaving 10 years of serving the military to pursue my education and a new career. My wife moved 3 months early so she could get the new house set up and get seettled into her new job. Then everything fell apart. The 3 months we were apart she told me that we had some serious issues to work out, that she wasn't sure she wanted to be with me anymore. I hadn't been meeting her needs for quite some time. Well, I realized the error of my ways and decided to change. So during those 3 months apart I read his HN/HN and a few other books. I went to counseling to help me become a more positive person and help me become a more emotionally available person. I was ready to fix my marriage. In July I moved to be with my family. The first couple of weeks went really bad. She was so cold and distant. She didn't accept my change and i pushed her to try and fix things between us. She read the HN/HN and said she wasn't sure that she could love me agian. I kept my head up and tried to be the best father and husband i could be. I tried to meet as many needs as she would let me with none of mine being met. Then I found out about her affair. It started 2 weeks before she left. She told me that it was just emotional. They just email and call each other. She told me she would break it off with him and continue going to counseling with me. I told her that i could forgive her, but i still didn't trust her. I continued to keep trying even though I was the only one making any effort. A week later I discovered she was contacting him again. I was furious, but i held my composure and tryed to remain calm. I told her that if she didn't end it i would leave. She again agreed to end it and we spent the next few weeks doing the same as before. Last week i found out that the affair had been more than emotional. She was still emailing him and calling him. She told me that i make her miserable and i bring out the worst in her. She said that she was never really happy and that she dosen't think we can fix things. She told me the marriage was not saveable. She said we need to get a divorce.

Currently we are still living together. She is near her family and frineds and i know no one here. She is the only one working so i am not finacially able to move out. I would have to drop out of school and get a full time job. Our schedules are the exact opposite so we don't see each other much. We are both super busy. I take care of our son in the a.m. then go to school till 9pm and she works early mornings and spends her evenings with our son. She wants me to stay with her so i can be with our son and so she can help me get through school and get on my feet. I don't know what to do anymore. I can't go on living with her if she is going to continue to treat me this way. I am still giving it my all but it's really hard for me to stay positive. She dosen't understand why I want to stay with her after all she has done to me. She dosen't understand how i can forgive her. She dosen't believe you can choose to love someone.

Thank you for listening. I don't know where to turn anymore.

few things i forgot to mention. We have been married 5 1/2 years and we are both 29. we have a 2 year old son.

I am still in counseling. She dosen't want to go anymore. She has decided that it's over.

In the past i haven't had much intrest in her hobbies and our intrests are different. I have gotten into the things she likes and try to do activities with her. She is a personal trainer and teaches yoga. She is very active and in the past I had a high stress job that i let get in the way of meeting her needs. My priorites we not right. So, I quit smoking, started working out and i eat healthy with her. I have made a complete turn-a-round. She is training for a figure competition right now and I am trying to support her as much as I can. We tried the date night and scheduled time for each other but she didn't want to follow through. She dosen't want to try to meet my needs and she tells me she dosen't need anything from me. I left the military so I could spend more time with my family. I am willing to give up school to save my marriage, but she dosen't want to give up anything. She packed her schedule so she wouldn't have time with me. She convinced me to go to school at night so our son wouldn't be in daycare 8 hours a day.

Our counselor told us to become friend again and "play" together. Try to find each other again. He told me not to push her and that I should keep doing what I have been. Our last session with him she met with him alone. That's when she decided to call it quits.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Our counselor wanted to see us individually to get a better perspective of where we were. Unfortunately that's all it took. I am seeing him today. I am trying to keep my head up for now and not let her see my hurt. I am still being good to her and doing things for her. Sometimes I don't know why. She asked me if we could still be friends and I really didn't know what to say. Friends don't hurt each other like she did me. I told her i didn't think I could do that.

Well, I met with my counselor yesterday and he sugested some separation. I can't do any healing when I am around her all the time. He dosen't think us living together will work or be healthy for either of us. Financially it is not really possable. She and I discussed this last night and I told her that I respected her decisions but I didn't have to like them. She told me that the affair was over but she had not changed her mind about working on our relationship. I asked her to reconsider and to give me another chance. I know that this was pushing her but I couldn't help it. She told me that I need to be happy on my own and not to depend on her. She is super focused on only herself and our son and thinks that I should be too. She want's me to be happy but she dosen't want to be the reason why. Does this make sense? Anyway, I agreed to move into the spare bedroom and to work on being "just friends" with her. I'm not sure if this will work but we are going to try it for a while. If that dosen't work I will move out. We both agreed that if or when we do divorce that it will be sometime next year when I am out of school and working. She wants to help me get thru school and start working in my new carrer, so I agreed for the time being to let her help me. In the meantime I need to figure out how to move on in some way and try to be happy.

Classic.

Please take comfort in the fact that she is a TEXTBOOK case, and if you follow the steps, you can lead her back to your marriage.

Do not separate. It is ridiculous to think that being apart is better for your relationship. Its the suggestion of a counselor who is just trying to get you "happy" -- very short-sighted!

Have you read "Surviving an Affair." Check it out from your library.

And start snooping. Do you know who OM is? Have you exposed this affair to your family, her family, OM's WIFE or family???

I know who he is. She know that I know everything. I haven't exposed everything to her family or friends. I haven't told his wife because I'm afraid it might drive the two of them together. I am stopping and picking up the book today. Should she read it too?

Well, you can't force her to read it, but you can certainly leave it out where she sees it and you can refer to things you have read in it.

As far as exposing, almost everyone here will tell you its the first thing you need to do if you want to win your wife back. By not exposing, you shield her from the consequences of her actions. She will be extremely pissed at you for exposing, but by passively tolerating her affair you ensure that you will get a divorce. Affairs rarely survive the light of day. They thrive on deceit and shadows.

Exposing to the OM's wife puts pressure on him to end his A with your WW. If there is no pressure on him, there is no reason for him to stop contacting and sleeping with your wife.

Well, they haven't physically been together since the first of June. They were together for 2 weeks in April when it started then my wife moved. She came to visit me and went to see him the same weekend. Since then it has only been phone calls and email. So the physical part is done. I have told her sister and a few of her friends know. But the friends of her's that know were the one's that were helping her hide it. They were doing or had done the same thing apparently.

I disagree on showing her any marriage building material right now.

She is very "wayward" in her thinking and will not be receptive to the information. (educating your spouse is one of the "lovebusters" we talk about)

Plus there are strategies inside the material that will work better if she doesn't know about them -- otherwise she will feel manipulated.

So keep her away from here for now!

Your fear about driving them together is common. Don't let your fear control you.
Very likely OM does not want to disrupt his life for your wife -- she is probably just a little side action for him.
This hasn't gone on for long -- so that's good!

Exposure will more likely drive OM to the conclusion that your wife isn't worth the hassle!

OM's wife has the RIGHT to protect herself against your wife interfering in her marriage and ruining her life!

I have her phone number but I'm not sure if they have moved yet. I know that they are going overseas soon so I will have to call her soon. I am thinking about emailing him and telling him to end it or I will.

Your action steps:

Get copy of Surviving an Affair -- read!

Study up on Plans A and B.

Start implementing Plan A (meeting your wife's needs that you may have missed, allowing OM to creep in...)

Expose the affair -- think nuclear holocaust. Wife will be angry. Venom will sprew. But that is OK and expected. Your marriage will survive that. It will not survive an ongoing affair!

Don't stop spying. I know you think they haven't been together -- but I will bet you anything he has made a trip or two to your new town...

Read the Spying 101 thread to get ideas on how you can monitor her activities. Keyloggers, voice activated recorders, GPS on her car....

I read Plan A and Plan B on this site a few weeks ago. I have been doing plan A. I have been doing all the things that I never did. And it just pisses her off because I'm trying and she's not. I am positive that he has not come up here. I have barely let her out of my sight since I moved here in July. I stopped spying on her last week because she found out how i knew they were still talking. I'm getting the book today and I will check out the thread you suggested.

Keep your "intel" to yourself -- do not let her find out how you are getting your information. Not to burst your bubble but how do you know she didn't take a day off of work to spend in a motel somewhere? WW are SNEAKY!!!

Of course she is pissed off. Her justification for the affair is all about how YOU let her down. So if you aren't the monster-husband, then she looks like a ******.

She does not WANT you to meet her needs -- she will fuss and balk when you do. But you need to stay consistant and show her its not a temporary way to "win her back". She will think you are just doing it so that you don't lose her.
Not because you've really changed.

You need to reach her from the point of view that working on the marriage is what is best for your son. But before you can even come close to getting her to consider it, you have to BUST UP HER AFFAIR -- and that means exposure!

I will expose her affair. But I know she hasn't seen him. He lives on the otherside of the country and is about to move overseas. I will continue to meet her needs. Everytime I try to convince her she say's that I'm trying to guilt her into trying. I told her that she should feel guilty. She say's she want's to end it not because of the affair, but because of all the things leading up to the affair (ie. not being emotionally available, not spending enough time together, being a depressive person, and not meeting her needs)

jcas,

If your wife wants to leave the marriage badly enough....she'll find a way to justify it, but I don't think you ought to help her leave you. That's why it's so important to understand the parts of Plan A.

One of our longtime posters, Pepperband....is famous for this post:

[color:" blue"]The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

[/color]

Being "physically" in contact is not the only contact that is destructive to a marriage. If they're still communicating....the affair is still active. If his wife doesn't know yet....the affair still has a room to grow. Unlike natural things....monstrous things grow in the dark.

Stop "relationship" talks. Absolutely nothing you SAY will make any difference to her. Actions are all that matters.

You cannot talk a WW into ending her affair.
She will only do it when it becomes more uncomfortable to continue it. Or if OM's wife makes it impossible for her to continue it. Or she becomes ashamed of her actions. Or embarressed.

LOL -- of course the affair has *nothing* to do with wanting a divorce......LOL.....she is in a complete fog. You cannot get logic and rational though through that fog.

Just take action. Meet her needs, expose the affair.

I'm pretty new to this myself, but I will offer what suggestions I can.

First, your WW will be very angry at you for exposing her affair. This is normal, but you need to do it anyway. She will then tell you that before you exposed, she MIGHT have considered working on your marriage, but now she would NEVER stay with you. Don't let her words sway you, this is just her anger talking over being exposed.

Second, doing a good plan A might cause your WW to feel a little guilty, but it probably doesn't help for you to tell her that she "should" feel that way over what she's done. Most Waywards won't even admit they feel guilty and a lot of them don't feel that way at all. They have a strange sense of entitlement that allows them to engage in adulterous behavior without feeling remorse.

This leads me to the last point. Waywards ALL rewrite the history of their marital relationships. They all give scripted responses like "I never really loved you", "our relationship has ALWAYS been bad", etc. in order to justify their new "relationship". So you really can't pay much attention to these kinds of statements. If you know of an area in your marriage where you failed to meet her needs, then improve that. But realize that she may not allow you to meet her needs while she's still pining away for the OM. Just do it anyway to the best of your ability.

If you find you are becoming angry or are in danger of "lecturing" her about what she's done or her lack of enthusiasm to work on the marriage, remove yourself from the situation until you can control your responses to her.

Have you read about "Love Busters"? There's a link on the infidelity section of this site that will help you to avoid doing things that upset your WW.

One last thing is to realized that this will take a lot of time and effort on your part. You will feel like you are the only one who cares about your marriage while your WW is doing everything she can to destroy it. You are in for the battle of your life and you have to go into it with the knowledge that you will be frustrated, hurt, angry and at times wanting to give up the fight. But if you want to save your marriage, you will have to do what is advised here.


I hope this helps and if you are a praying man, I suggest you do so with all diligence. I can tell you from personal experience that God can help you through this.

Has any of these tactics actually helped save your marriage? Or have they just cause more pain and conflict? I know that there is no garanteed way to go about things. But if i do all this and it dosen't work what will i have accomplished? I know that if it does work it will all be worth it, but if it dosen't there probably won't be any kind of cival relationship between us left. It's just all a bit scary is all I'm saying. I just want the hurting to stop and for us to fix things. But i can't fix us alone and she shows no signs of helping or wanting for that matter. I got to go, but I'll check back in later tonight. Thanks for all your support.

jcas...

Whatever you do, plesae DO NOT do what you said in your above quote...That is THREATENING exposure...You NEVER, but NEVER threaten exposure...Remember that FOREWARNED is FOREARMED...If you email or call OM and threaten, you will have effectively rendered the most powerful weapon in your arsenal, exposure, INEFFECTIVE...That would give OM (your enemy) time to head you off at the pass by allowing him the opportunity to spin the story to his wife painting you as a jealous nutjob so then if you tried to tell his wife, you would have zero credibility thus leaving your exposure impotent...Do you see what I mean?

jcas, OM's wife would be your greatest ally in busting up this affair and ensuring that NO CONTACT remains in place...Two pair of eyes are better than one...Further, she needs and deserves this information in order to protect herself from her husband and your wife...I'm certain if the situation were reversed, that you'd want to be told, right? Will you do this jcas?

Mrs. W

I assume you are referring to exposure. I will tell you that I exposed to my WH's family, coworkers, boss, HR, and friends. He is involved in an Affair with a coworker. My WH was extremely ANGRY with me for doing this and said he would never get over it (he even called me names and cussed me out a little). After about two weeks, he has never mentioned it again and has even bought me dinner since then.

The reason for exposure is not to hurt your WW, it is to put pressure on the adulterous relationship to end. You are not doing it to get even.

The OM's family, friends, and spouse (if he has one) also need to be informed. Again, not to hurt him personally, but to put pressure on the relationship.

My WH and the OW have face coworkers everyday who know what they are doing. It makes them uncomfortable and it causes the fantasy of the relationship as a wonderful romantic affair to end. It exposes it for the vile thing that it is.

If your WW gets upset about your exposure, just keep telling her that you did it to save your marriage because you love her and want to make your relationship work. No matter what she says to you, keep affirming the reason for exposure was to save your marriage because you love her.

If you do a solid plan A, your WW will have nothing but good interactions with you. This will only improve your chances of reconciliation if it occurs. So try to find out what your WW's EN are and do your best to meet them. Even if your marriage ends in divorce, you will at least know that you left her with the best impression of you that you could and that definitely will not hurt your relationship with her in the future whatever it may be.

jcas,

Have you read the material on this site? Are you willing to read "Surviving an Affair"? Have you read the posts on this forum? Or listened to Dr. Harley speak? If you had....you'd already know the answer to this question is a resounding YES.

Don't be so afraid of losing her that you're afraid to fight for her.

The OMs wife is at much risk as you are....and she deserves to know it. If he'll sleep around with your wife and get away with it....he'll do it again.

YES jcas...Mr. Wondering and I most definitely credit MB with saving our marriage...This place, the plans and the Harleys themselves are GODSENDS...No doubt about it...

It is the BEST shot that your marriage has...The fastest horse doesn't always win the race of course, but don't you think it the wisest one to place your bet on?

And you know how out of control that your life seems right now? The MB plans are just that, PLANS...Those plans place a lot of control back in your hands, so that your world no longer feels upside down...I know you want that, right? COURAGE IS IN THE DOING jcas, so, whaddaya say, you in? Take a look at your son and tell him that you are going "ALL IN" for him...Will you do that?

Mrs. W

I confronted my wife with proof of the affair and told her to pack her stuff and get out. In my case, that was apparently all she needed to realize how reprehensible her actions were and totally recommit to the marriage.
Exposure has a similar result. A WS can shrug off the concerns and objections of the BS to justify their actions, but it gets much harder when family and friends come down on them too. Over time, they are forced to recognize the true nature of their affair.

The alternate to exposure is that you destroy yourself emotionally by allowing your WW to take everything you can give, all while she lies to you, hurts you, and refuses to recognize all the things you do for her.