First time poster, though I have made a topic regarding this on the menshealth forums, the situation has become volatile at best.

Some background on myself before I explain my situation, I have been a very abusive boyfriend/husband for the first six months of this year (the abuse has been going on and off for the last 4 years and 3 months) physically and verbally. I have no excuse for doing so, I've made the fatal assumption that happy couples never fought (meaning I would've avoided any type of arugement or fight by any means necessary) and took my wife for granted (it never really occured to me that she would leave me, I thought that if the problem was ignored/avoided it would just go away, and we can be happy again, how wrong I was...) until recently. I've also became emotionally distant the beginning of this year as well, for the ill advice that I took to heart from a friend (me not being ready for a child, which was the main reason, at the time, why we got married). My wife and I have been together for 6 years and 3 months, for the first 6 months of this year she was trying desperatley what I'm finally doing now, we are both 22 years old.

Most of what I'm going to say was posted on the Mens Health Forums but I'll try my best to recap it.

7/22/07
My wife and I have another argument, I wanted space so I wouldn't be abusive, she wanted to work things out, I abused her so that she would go to her parents to give us some space, that night I logged into her computer and discovered a relationship that started near the beginning of this year. The next day, I desparately want to make it up to her, things seemed fine except I knew she was keeping in contact with him.

7/23/07-8/21/07
Copy and Paste from my last post on forum

• Well for the past month I have been making drastic changes in myself and my lifestyle. If there was a song for me to live by it would be The Reason by Hoobastank. For the two weeks from my first post have been filled with...chaos would best sum up what had happened. When I first posted, I really didn't know what to do, I tried seeking advice from my friends (they didn't give me any, just had my "back"), I tried the internet (and followed the advice, but there wasn't immediate results). So I did something that I should've done at the beginning. I LISTENED to her request to send her somewhere that she could think by herself, it couldn't be somewhere I could easily reach, and where she isn't pestered by her friends and family. I got her a ticket to Hawaii (I was reluctant to send her to Hawaii at first because I believed why should she be rewarded for cheating on me, and then I look back at what I did to her and this isn't a fraction of what I owe to her).
  
  But her trip to Hawaii was near the beginning of the next week and it was only the middle of the week. So there was still time to work things out before she goes on her trip. But I still didn't believe that the things she told me where things that she wanted (and was getting from the other person) from me, I resorted to spying, but done poorly, I got caught (multiple times), thus making the relationship worse (no trust), it got the information that I thought I needed (there was some useful information, but it was things what we've listed as our "emotional needs" and already known) thus made me try to mimic the guy, which was a mistake, as it wasn't me being myself but me trying to be him. So I did what my mind was used to doing, I used my financial resources to try to win her over, I took her to a spa for a much need massage, took her to the mall to get her clothes for Hawaii, dinner, etc etc. But it wasn't winning her over, of course not, she didn't want me for the money. So I done another thing that I haven't done for a while as well, TALKED to her. We actually had some of the most meaningful converstaions in a long time. Though the subjects were mostly regarding "What would you do if I chose you/him/neither?" And as I'm writing this down something that I've just realised that we've talked about what feels so long ago was the reason why she was confused.
  
  She is confused in her choice because does she choose:
  
  -The person who had been there for her during the past six months who was able to listen to all her problems/doubts/fears (and attempt to make them better) and makes the promise of a better life (albeit in 5 years, when he can finish school and is 5000 miles away)?
  
  or
  
  -The person who she has been with for nearly 6+ years with all the up and downs (the lowest during these 6 months) who finally realised the error of his ways and is currently trying to PROVE that he has changed and will not revert to the monster he was. Her biggest fear is that if she chooses me and this is over, I will become that person again
  
  Her flight was a couple of days and she was conversing with the other guy to what I'd assume "give a chance". So I messed up, the next morning I asked if she wanted to go to him (with me just paying for the plane ticket and giving a 100 dollars, and have her stay with him for the next 6 months, for him to take care of her) we argued. What I didn't know (and found out later) was that when she told him this, he told her that he didn't want to see her because he had "things to do". Knowing that I messed up I acted out of pure desperation, without knowing if I would get anything, I asked her friends for advice. I asked her friends (and knowing full well of the answer) if someone like me even deserves her, if I even have a chance against this guy, if they could make it, what should I do. I found out some pretty significant things, they actually believed in me that I can actually change and man up, because I cared so much for her that I was going to her friends, people whom have heard everything bad and should've hated my very existance, for advice. We do our own thing til later that night (when we felt better and talked again) and I helped her get ready to leave.
  
  The morning of her flight was pretty sober, but she did something that we didn't do for those last two weeks. She put on my wedding ring on my finger, and I put her wedding ring on hers. We had breakfast and tell each other our doubts, and have a really long fairwell in the car, and me almost getting arrested by the TSA for wanting to see her to her gate. I missed her terribly so, but I didn't call her after her flight departed (we agreed to only have her contact us)
  
  Barely a day passes by and I get a call on my cell, from her. She said she choose me, she based her decision on whom she would miss the most, she choose me because in part of the guy flat out refusing to see her when she could've gone to him instead of Hawaii, why would someone who says all these things of a good life and promises and would rarely get the chance to see her, flat out refuse such an offer? She told me that he must've regretted that decision because he was frantically calling and trying to contact her. With that it made the next few days less lonely and I packed my bags to go to Hawaii.
  
  When I got to Hawaii, it was a like a true honeymoon that we really didn't have (except for me getting mad twice, anger management will be very useful to me) and she only talked to the guy once, we spent time with family for a short time and then got to finally spend time with ourselves. It was amasing, simply put. But like all honeymoons, they must eventually come to an end.
  
  Which brings this to the last couple of days, I have a feeling that even though that we had such an amazing week in Hawaii, that she may fall for him again (she says that it is very hard for someone to fall out of love with someone) and although I could confirm this by spying (and destroy what fragile trust that we have), I haven't touched her computer since those hellish two weeks before she went to Hawaii. But I know that since she came back that he is trying to make up the time that they didn't get to spend when we was at Hawaii, I do not want to intervene, yet. But as long as their relationship still exists it makes me paranoid and prone to make me do something stupid and makes me feel that whatever thing I do to better myself is meaningless.
  
  
  quote:
  Originally posted by dfunky:
  If you had been together with her for six years, what incited you to start physically abusing her?
  
  
  Frustration. I made the fatal mistake of believing that a happy relationship never fought. So I took the blame all upon myself at the beginning, but taking in all that blame and with no where to let out is like a closed pot of boiling water, eventually its going to explode and that's what happened. I hated fighting, I didn't want to really talk about it because I didn't know how to open up, so in order to not have any problems is to try to avoid or ignore them as best as possible, and if that isn't the case, push the ones you love away... I did that with force. And I hate myself for it.

Present
Everything was going really well until recently, I felt that I was meeting her needs and I have been currently in anger management and counseling for the last 4 weeks, was on a bi weekly basis, now it's on a weekly basis because of my growing anxiety between my wife and this person (I have told her this, and she reluctantly blocks him, he creates other methods of contacting her and she responds to him). I knew it was going on but I didn't want to break down so I sort of let it continue, my therapist wants to upgrade it to marriage counseling, because I keep talking about us and he wants us to solve out our problems. I made the mistake of thinking I was ready to tackle these problems (with only reading His needs, Her needs and a portion of Love Busters), I was not, I did more harm than good. We discussed that in marriage counseling and I have a slighty better idea of how to go about our problems.

This past weekend, however, I finally snapped when I saw an IM from him saying "Muah" and so I messaged him back saying "Muah all you want piece of ****. I know where you live" and then I sent another IM to him "[His address]. Found you, take care." and then finally gave him a call on his cell phone telling him "[His address]. I know where you live, pray to whatever god you pray to that my therapy works, for my wife's sake and yours" I didn't mean it as a threat to my wife, just him. But it did more bad than good (since they keep in contact with each other). Add to the fact that her family thinks that she will pull what happened to her brother (his wife cheated on him for his best friend/man) and the situation is very delicate.

Last night I was able to talk to her on regards to our problems, how she feels, what she wants, etc. We didn't get that far, but it was a start.

My wife's current situation is this:
[*]She's scared of commitment at the moment.
[*]She doesn't believe in promises/apologies.
[*]She wants to make a decision between me and this person before the Winter, because after that she will lose him.
[*]She is bitter over how long I took to finally realise what to do, she mirrors what I did to her.
[*]She is skeptical of me being able to keep what I've been doing up.
[*]She is bitter for giving me a chance (multiple times) and not this person.
[*]She is willing to leave her family for this person.
[*]Her decision will be based on her feelings.
[*]She loves me and him, I'm currently been losing love.
[*]She dosen't want to wait for me to relearn on how to be in a relationship.

So I ask, what should I do? Is there anything more I can do? I've been handling my anger by going to the gym more and running it all off, and taking "time outs" whenever I'm feeling angry. It's just that with what she told me last night, my determination was shaken, badly. The therapist said I should focus more on myself before the relationship, except the problem is there isn't much time left.

Your wife's affair is NOT an issue for you to be dealing with right now...frankly you are not equipped to do so.
I do not blame her for wanting to get out of a relationship with you.....you have abused her for years and at BEST you are a huge risk right now.
IMHO, the best thing you can do for your wife is to leave...work on yourself and get your temper and life in a healthy enough place where you can actually be a good partner.
You can tell her your plans and that you still love her. You can request that she wait for you to become a better man. You are not in a position to demand anything at this point.

In other words, your therapist is exactly right.

To clarify, would this be like a plan B then, do I follow everything in the book "Love Busters"? Should I tell my wife in regards to this post so she can keep track of my progress? The only time she is scared of me is when I'm angry, and following my therapists advice I've been able to feel when I start to get angry and my wife understands if I leave out of nowhere for an hour. Any advice/tips/encouragment is what is needed, I may be book smart, but to be frank, I'm apparently emotionally retarded.

My much gentler thought on this would be:

Your therapist is right, I agree. Work on you first. That's the best thing you can do in this situation REGARDLESS of whatever occurred in your marriage.

She will not trust the changes she sees are real, but...you can't worry about that. You need to focus on knowing that they are real and let actions speak louder than words. Make them real and do some real work.

No, not like plan B. Just you working on you...nothing more, nothing less.

Plan A fits the bill perfectly.

Read up on this. You have identified what you need to work on, and that's part of Plan A. Working on you, making yourself a better person, man, and husband. That's a focus. If you have children, then becoming a better parent is a focus.

Don't pressure her. Don't talk about the relationship, affair, marriage, reconciling, nada. Nothing. It's the same advice I'd give you if you say you played with Legos too much and she left you.

You, you, you.

It's never too late to become the person you always wanted to be. Get started.

JB...until his temper is 100% under control, he SHOULD NOT be in Plan A or plan anything with her. If you have some knowledge about abusers, you will know that they do not handle frustration very well. Any attempt to meet her emotional needs that is rebuffed could trigger violence.
Dr. Harley is VERY clear that these plans are not for people in abusive situations.
IMHO, your advice is putting his wife in harms way.
I agree that he can become the man he should be...but in the meantime, they should not be sharing a home or a life.

I have to agree with MEDC on this one...she will not trust him...

You have to fix you before she will even comes to terms with what you have done to her...

If you truely love her, let her go, work on you, and MAYBE she'll come back one day!

Speaking from experience!

I agree MEDC, I'm stressing the work on YOU part of it alone. I stand corrected, please read MEDC's thoughts on the post above this one and reconcile them against mine. MEDC clarified some items.

MEDC,

He will UNDOUBTEDLY still have contact with WW, it's unrealistic to think he won't. He may still need advice on what do to do when that occurs, no matter whether the plans apply to him or not. There is still peer advice to be given to him. He can't always avoid his WW all the time, I'm sure. While his therapist will continue to work with him, I'm sure he could use some additional encouragement from us.

I'm not suggesting putting his WW in harms way at all, MEDC. Not at all. I agree, his number issue is not his spouse's waywardness, it's his abusive behaviour.

I commend you Misterjingles, for being upfront and honest about your anger issues, that is a great step in the right direction.

Do you still live together? I presume so, I didn't read anything to the contrary.

BTW: I have volunteered quite a bit at men's groups for anger management, MEDC, I'm quite familiar with abusers. Thus, my interest in this particular case.

I second that motion...I wish you the best in following through...

Your wife needs time to heal also...you were right in saying that you can not simply repay her with a ticket to Hawaii...not only to you have to repay your wife for the abuse that you have done to her but your child too...

You HAVE TO break the cycle for you but also for your child...

Actions speaks LOUDER THAN WORDS...I only heard lipservice and there was no follow through!

JB... I am not suggesting that you wnated her in harms way...just that your suggestion could easily result in that.
He shouldn't have ANY contact with his wife for some defined period of time. He is a danger to her in his current state.
Why do you say he can't avoid his wife all the time?
If they live together and continue to do so, she is in great danger.
He has more than anger issues...he has physical abuse issues that I believe he can overcome...but his recovery should not be undertaken at the potential risk of others around him.
And yes, I believe we can offer him support and advice. That is exactly what I am doing. I KNOW he has a better chance at recovery absent the stresses of a wayward wife. I KNOW that his spouse is in danger until such a time as he is completely recovered.

We do live together, unfortunately, the neighborhood has become less safer these past couple of months (we had 3 break ins, one while we was away, another she saw the robbers face to face and was within arm reach of these 4 kids, and then another attempted break in while she was at home). So she feels less safe alone than shes does with me, except when I'm angry. I have not been physcially or emotionally abusive to her for the last two months, for the last 4 weeks I have been with professional help. Although my methods for solving problems had been overpowering her, I just straight up leave the house and go to the gym when I feel I'm getting angry or when my wife asks for a "time out" to counter that, it's figuring out how to talk about sensitive subjects that I seem to be having problems on.

MJ, I too commend you. Now I will ask you to consider that you are not ready to cope with this situation. You are a danger to her right now. I know that is tough to hear...but bottom line is, you are doing your best to fix it...don't short circuit yourself by living with her during a time when the most stable people are pushed to the limits.
Please recognize the need to walk away for now.

MJ,

I'm glad you are getting help for your issues. However, you are in no position to do plan A/B as you cannot deal with both issues at once. I want you to know that you are not responsible for her affair, just as she is not responsible for you abusing her, but you didn't create the best environment for this marriage.

First and foremost, you need to finish your anger management classes, and not worry about your WS for the time being. I personally don't think that OM is actually a threat, so dealing with your WS's infidelity can be postponed until you have completed your rehabilitation. After that, I think you are free to do whatever non-abusive means necessary to prevent her from contacting OM. In the meantime, however, do not enable her by sending her out to see OM, or letting her carry on with OM in front of you. Concentrate on you first, then her later.

Beautifully wrote Jim!

Mr. Jingles...

What types of issues is it that you can not handle? What provokes your anger?

Is it something that your wife says? what is it that YoU can't handle?

When I know that she's talking to him (she doesn't initiate contact either, he does, unless I acted really angry and frightened her). I used to be on her like a "hawk" when I knew this happened and be like "So what are you guys talking about?", but I've been now just trying my best to ignore it, to not read over her shoulder when this guy talks to her. It's just really hard when there isn't that much encouragement... I guess I'm more reliant on people than I thought I was.

::edit::

Because when I saw what they were talking about it was him saying things like "I will always love you" and it's plays in the back of my mind like a song I can never forget, except this song is having sex with my wife.

What about before she started talking to him?

We fought over little things, it just that I never wanted to talk about/ignore it made them even worse, I'd ignore her to work it out and just continue playing my games and whatnot. Then she would come up and turn off the screen and want to talk things out and then I would push her away... with force.

Since two months ago, I have been telling her everything now. I tell her how I feel about what bothers me and we try to find a compromise. It's just that it's hard to find middle ground when I want them to stop talking to each other forever and she still talks to him because she has feelings for him (these feelings had developed over the first 6 months of this year, she said he was there hearing her cry on the phone those nights...while I was doing nothing...)

Love isn't something that just stops.

Believe me, I KNOW...I'm Divorcing my abuser...

I hope and think that you are on the right road!