Are you lurking? How are you?




Fled

Hi Fled,

How was your camping trip? I hope you had a good time. Yep, I'm a lurking....got into a little funk. Posting seems to be an effort.

Since we last talk, I've had 2 talks w/H. The first conversation(labor day weekend) he told me that he had spoken w/OW via phone. He told her that he really can't talk/see her ever again. No more "casual" conversations. That he is committed to trying to working out his M. This took place middle of the week, only just told me this after I asked if he spoken to her. I told him it's this behaviour that keeps me from trusting him. I said I can't trust that he has my best interest in mind, and that what he wants will always comes first and somehow he will justify it so that it's to "spare me".

I told him that he's to tell me whenever, if ever, however he sees, talks, works or even glance at her. He wasn't happy with that but he agreed to it. Also I wanted complete disclosure from him. He continues to say that he was not with her that night he was out all night. He also said he would go to IC, but he's yet to do anything about it, and to block her from his e-mail account....not done that either.

He did call when she got called into work. He's also been calling me to let me know what he's doing. But it feels like he's doing the easy stuff, the things that he would get caught is the things he tells. But I think he's still hiding something from me. I can't seem to shake this feeling no matter what he does.

2nd conversation-last fri. night. Started talking about someone we know who's going thru an addiction problem. Was telling him that it's so hard on the family because the person addicted only cares about his next fix. Then he said that when you have a addiction you know that you are causing hurt but the need is so strong you can't help it. And if your spouse really cares then they will stick around cause you never know when the addicted person will "turn" the bend.

I said that in some cases that person never turns the bend, and what is the spouse to do? Somewhere along the line a decision has to be made and committed--for the spouse to continue to hang in there. He said how can the addicted get better if everyone abadon them. Like the OW, she's all alone with no support. He's so worried about her (as a friend) because she doesn't have anyone to turn to, not her H, family, and now not even him. If something happens to her, he will feel responsible. While he was her "friend", he helped her stop drinking, get off her depression meds, and she was able to focus and make decisions. How can that be a bad thing? Cause you didn't keep it as friends, you "fell in love" with her. YOU were willing to throw me, kids, and our life away for her and yourself.

It's like talking to a wall. He also said that night that he thinks it's bad enough that he has to "report" to me. He's not going to treated like a 8year old who needs to be babysat and monitor. I said even if it makes me feel more secure? He said he has to be true to himself and being questioned and doubted all the time will not work for him. He can only do the best that he can, and that will need to be okay for now.

I just sat there and listen. He had several drinks that night so he said a lot more then normal. He mention her kids, and how he really liked them and got along with them. I also found out that she moved out into her own apartment. Again, he denied that he was with her that night.

So I think even though he and I have been getting along these last couple of days, but it feels like we are buddies/room mate. Maybe this is as good as it gets. But I know that I won't settle for this, he just doesn't know it yet.

So are you glad you asked? It feels like my heart is breaking all over again.

Tami

So r u ready t/d plan B? He isn't interested in recovery....he is just going along until he can find a way to weasel out.

It w/b best if he actually lost his family at this time. He may have the OW in the wings but realize she didn't lose everything because she was doing good. There has been NO motivation for her to be honest and trustworthy.

He thinks he helped her....he just changed her type of addiction. Now she will go after MM. He taught her that's a safer addiction even though it is more dangerous.

How does he feel about his progress now? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

L.

Yes Tami, I am glad I asked. You are talking I think this is positive, And no he isn't full on board for recovery, is still in the fog, and will not be comfortable with everything he needs to do to get you there. Recovery starts with the BS carrying it all then the WS has to get on board and start carrying it because the BS will not be able to do it for long on their own.

Are you still putting your Plan B together and are you still plan A'ing?? Work on the counseling, can you get him to call the Harley's???

Now that you ask, The camping started great but the weekend ended in disaster. Don't know if you saw my lousy labor day thread on recovery. We got a new trailer, fifth wheel. It was our first trip with it. That went great, trailer is awesome. DS9 has his own bunk bed, room to move when we cook, We went for a 4 hour Mnt bike ride. 8500 feet up to 10,000, lots of pines and creeks. That was the first half, second half was up steep hill to open mountains, then downhil, shale and big boulders, then up then down then up then down. Thought I was going to stroke. Nine year old did great, no whining, kept up, the last 3/4 miles was down hill, smooth, he blew me away. My 3 year old puppy went with us. She was awesome. stayed with us, had a ball. Took off with Ds on the last downhill. Came back for me when she realized I wasn't with them. She ran all the way to truck with me. Then the next monring she got into fight with our other dog, bit FWH. Long story, many talks with vet over summer. We had to put her to sleep. I am going back to the same campsite this weekend with her ashes. W will spread them at the top of the hill where we road. There are no signs of of humans from this hill, no roads, no fences, nothing but sky, mountains, and pines. I will leave her there with some wildflowers that will bloom next spring. (she was my salvation d-day and after, she was 5 months old when I found out, the house is so empty, I miss her breathing at night and her climbing in bed in the morning for a fifteen minute snuggle when DH gets up for work) So about asking? This is life, and its okay if we can't answer each other that things are great. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
At least things are <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
And next week we will hope they will be a little bit better, one day at a time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Fled

Hi Fled,

I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. I know the lost of a friend (pet) can be devastating. Mine was named Molly, she was only 8 when we had to put her down. She had cancer in her hind leg and it spread to other parts of her body. I miss her. It sounds like you found a beautiful place to rest her spirit. I'll be thinking of you!

Sorry it took so long to reply. The orthopedic doctor I work for was on call for 4 days in a row. And I do think that every man, women and child in the Portland area broke something. Keeps me busy and occupied.

Plan A still and setting up Plan B. I'm getting mixed messages from him. He's been very cheerful of late, which gets me suspicious. Is he happy cause we are doing better or cause he's getting his "fix" on the side?

Friday night, I ran into the OW. I saw her coming towards me but I don't think she recognized me until she was practically in my face. I have changed quite a bit since the last time she saw me. I've lost about 35lbs, have contacts and wearing makeup. But the weirdest thing is once she knew who I was she gave me a smile. What is that all about?

I had to control myself from just confronting her in the middle of the store. When I got home, my husband told me that she got called in to work. So she was there for about 1 hour of his shift. Then I told him that I ran into her.

I asked him 'Are done w/her?" He said I've already told you that I am. Then I asked if he's had contact w/her. He said "I have told you everytime we talked or see eachother." I told him that I CAN NOT take another relapse. If he can't resist her then tell me NOW. I told him my heart can't take anymore breakage. If he had ever love me, then please just give me all the info. NOW. He said there's nothing to tell. But I don't believe him, I know something is going on, I FEEL it. But I don't know what it is.

I just finished the book, Torn Asunder (flameout recommended it). I found it very informative and do-able. It goes along the same guidelines as MB, but it does have this part regarding WS who had disclosed the A, but unable/unwilling to either go thru the process of recovery or give up the EA.

The key is to switch places w/WH. For some WH, they don't understand what anguish the BS is going thru ,and that he is the one who brought it to our home. So by telling/writing this graphic, brutal and explicit story, it should be able to get the WH understand the damage done. You use a person close to WS (best friend) as your OP and build a A story. Do it in a way the WS can "see" it. And hopefully feel it to. It's a long shot, but I don't think we can recover from this if he's in denial.

So I'm still hanging in there. I'm thinking of talking to the OW. I'm really curious about where she is and what she is doing. Really I want to know what her intentions are. What do you think?


Take care. I hope this weekend goes well for you. Please don't stroke out on that mountain! I would miss you greatly!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Tami

Orchid,

Ready to Plan B? I'm not sure. I know he's not fully in recovery nor he is NC. It doesn't feel right yet to Plan B him, though I am not saying it won't happen. Soon.

I will Plan B for other reasons. I don't think he will ever find passion for me, b/c he's still in EA w/OW. And I do agree w/you that he will get the jolt when I ask him to leave.

Okay, here's the honest truth. Don't 2x4 me yet. How do you deal with the fact that when he leaves, he will be going to someone? Not just in his head, but in body. To know that he will be wrapped in her arms and legs, while I am alone picking up the pieces. Or worse they are happy and sucessfull in their relationship.Logically I know this is not the kind of M I want, but emotionally it would feel like i lost and she won.

I'm not afraid to do this or be w/o him. I'm totally capable of surviving this. But to know that you can be replaced (yes, I know that's already happened) but really replaced....it's not something you do lightly. I don't have my coping elements set up yet for that. Just thinking about it makes my stomach turn.

Okay, now you can 2x4!!

Thanks,
Tami

Orchid: Plan B will work when you need it and your mind and heart are in sync. It has t/b in order for it to work. Plan B is executed by you and for you. It isn't to teach him a lesson it is a rescue of your love from being lost.


Orchid: What are your reasons for plan B?


Orchid: I understand your fear and being hesitant about executing plan B but you will find that keeping yourself in fear is detrimental only to you and your family. The A thrives on the fear, pain and suffering of the BS. So for now you are actually fueling their A. There is no reason or consequence for him to stop the A. You are tolerating it as is.

Ask yourself, do I really want t/b married to a WS or your real H?

L.

Tami,

The weekend went well, We took her to the top of the Mountain and set her free. then
we took a three mile to the lake and three mile back hike in the mountains Carried the fishing poles but the lake didn't have any fish <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />. We got passed on the trail by threeATV's. They had just gotten their elk with bow/arrow. Then we hiked back down. On the way back to our campground we saw the Winkle Family. Three Moose: Bull Winkle, Mrs. Winkle, and Baby calf Winkle ? It was awesome <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
The next morning we headed to the lake to fish for trout, Yes, I do clean and cook and eat them <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> We spent Three hours at the lake and caught 22 Trout. 14- 20 inches. What an incredible three hours. While I was catching number four in the first twenty minutes. The mud bank I was on gave way. It was 62 degrees at 9,000 feet, the water was cold..... I slid into the lake just as I caught that fish on the line, he jumped off the hook and was flopping around at my head while I was laying in the water and mud. So, what does any good fisher"person" do? I grabbed that dam fish and shoved him into the bank. Then I got my self turned over and threw him up on the shore. I had to catch that 20 inch German Brown three times before I could put him on the stringer. I was wet and muddy from the waste down. When my butt hit the mud I landed on a rock that slid in with me. Ripped a hole in my jeans 12 inches long Left DS9 with DH, all of us laughing our butts off, went back to the trailer for a three minute shower, dry clothes and back to the lake. Fish count went from 6 to 12 while I was gone.
Oh, I forgot, we forgot to take a stringer so we were using fishing line. I brought the stringer back. and we lost 2 large trout when we tried to transfer them to the stringer.

We had an awesome weekend <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


Now back to you Tami:

DO NOT speak to the other woman, yes he is stillin the fog, but he is home. Be strong and positive about him being home, telling you about contact. Do not be needy and negative. Know your boundaries, if you get proof of them being crossed then you address it, but otherwise stay in plan A. Your Plan A is to help him get through the withdrawal from his drug addiction (whatevr he got from the A). his passion for you can come back but not until you help him through the withdrawal. You, unfortunately, can't get any of that back, according to him, until he starts breaking out of the withdrawal. Plan your Plan B so that if he breaks your boundaries you are ready to act, But....if you can Plan A him through withdrawal without going there, if you can get him to agree to some couseling with the Harleys??? then he is telling you about contact, he is home and wants to be there. You have a lot on the upside. Try not to let the pain bring you down and negative. You need to try to force positive. (we fake it until it's real).

Hey, Tami on the side, I'll trade you one of my orthopod's for yours:) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />





Fled

Fled,

I'm so glad to hear you had a awesome weekend!! It's been years since I had trout. Yummy!! We mostly caught rainbows--but they were freaking delicious over a campfire.

Sorry, no trade on the orthopod! I've only got one and we are getting along just fine. Ortho is a new field for me, I spent 11 years in urology---it's a bit different.

Thank you for your words of wisdom, cause I was in the depth of self pity and getting very negative. We did have a couple of good(?) talks. The jest of our conversations was that: Yes, he wants to be home. No, his feelings for her has not changed may have gotten stronger since he can't be with her. Yes, he still miss her and care about her--she was his friend long before they became lovers. No, he does not have any sexual desire for me. Yes, he does for her. Yes, he understands that until he "gets" over her, he will not be able to "be" with me. Yes, at times he thinks of leaving, cause it would make it easier on me. No, he doesn't really think that's a good idea, cause then our line of communication would be cut off. Yes, he continues to think, want, yearns for her. Yes, he's willing to talk with someone, but he's worried that they may tell him that they can't help him with his problems. No, he's not had contact w/her. Yes, its been very hard to have NC--only because he doesn't want to cont. to hurt me. Yes, the feelings are strong if he sees, or hears about her. Yes, he knows what happened is on him--he wished it never happened. Yes, he knows that I am hurting--wishes he can take it away, but don't know how. Yes, he feels responsible for hurting 2 women that he loves.

The reason why he's home is:
1) he loves me
2) time invested in us.
3) our family
4) don't have anywhere else to go.
5) OW not an option as far as living with 24/7. He doesn't think they could be compatible on day to day basis.
6) don't want to give up without exhausting all avenues.
7) Not unhappy with our M. Satisfied with all aspect of our relationship. But just wasn't getting enough sex and romance. Felt like the intimacy part was gone. Now he's not sure he can get it back...now that he knows how it can be with someone else.

These conversation happened over a couple to days. After he told me that his feelings for her and for me has not changed. I really hit a low---when not at work or around the family---tears would just pour down my face. The ache in my heart--it felt like DD all over again. Was really ready to tell him to just leave--go do whatever you need to, but then he told me that he can't see himself anywhere but here with me, that he would perish if he can't talk to me, laugh with me, be with me. He doesn't think it was to late for us to rebuild our M. He feels that everything else he needs from our M is in place, just not the intimacy.

So what do you think? I'll tell you what I think after you tell me what you think. I'm hopeful but not disillusioned.

Tami

He's wrong!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you hear that?? He's WRONG!!!!!!!

He can be helped, but he is still too deep in foggy [censored] for it to "feel" believable. Call the Harley's, start there, then if you need to you can look for someone closer for ongoing, or they may be able to suggest someone in your area. The thing that helped my H the most was to start talking with my Hospital Chaplain on day3. He had done marriage couseling before, it wasn't really christian based, just reality based. He spent 7 months seeing him once a week. Helped him go back to family of origin issues etc.

"I was luckY?""( ar any of us?) he wasn't "in love" with her, he did something really stupid and then was trapped. didn't want to see the ugly truth of her, so still "cared about" her. She had managed to completely destroy that with truth and revelation since d-day.

Your H is home, he still wants to work on it, and he is Foggy, foggy foggy. He has to get away from the foggy and start rebuilding the M. The time spent together doing things both of you can enjoy, avoiding LB's (especially you right now), will help to rebuild the relationship and the intimacy stuff can return later. He seems to be very against it. You have to let him come back to it on his own, and that will happen with couseling to help defog, and time to defog.

NC is absolute,He needs to change jobs, and stop all contact. I can't see him being able to get through the fog while still running into her at work, or thinking that he might.

Call the Harley's. Breathe, and stay hopeful, one day at a time. Remember this is a long road (today is day 952 for me). Not a process for the faint of heart, not a trip with dramatic change from one day to the next. Lots of baby steps(kind of like rebuilding a shattered femur that's in 1000 pieces, one screw or plate won't get it done)

(((Tami)))

Fled

Hi Fled,

I hear you!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I told my H that IMO this is the best time to seek council. If he's waiting to figure things out on his own, he would have come up w/something by now. I think he's afraid of what the councilor will tell him. It's one thing for friends and me to tell him he f-up, it's completely different to have a complete stranger tell him.

As far as the job is concern, he's not going to quit. He's put in 15yrs, it's one of the only job out here that offers to pay benefits for the whole family (vision and dental). He's grandfathered in. The OW was suppose to transfer but now that she's moved out, it's not such a big deal. If she transfer, how else will she see him?

I know he has good intention w/NC, but it's only going to be a matter of time b4 he falls off the wagon. If what he tells me is true, the last time he had SF was early June. And if that was one of the factor of his A, then I think he's overdue for contact. And since it's not w/me, then it will be w/her. And she knows it. All it would take is a look, a call, a stop by the store and....fireworks. There is so many opportunity for them to meet up. He knows my work schedule, and the kids are in school(hers too). It wouldn't take much to rendezvous w/o my knowledge. Hopefully, his guilt will be sooooo great that he will resist.

I have brought this up to him and he said he will not do this to me again. He said if he is thinking of it, or she contacts him and he wants too, then he will tell me. What a guy!!! Sorry, a little resentful there for a minute.

I just can't find a way around his fog. The NC keeps changing. The last time he saw her was last fri, as far as I know. I feel he's telling me the truth and that he understands the importance of letting me know. But I just doubt his strength to resist her. He's built her so high up, that nothing I do can compare. But sometimes he says things that keep my hope going. Like tonight, I didn't have work my 2nd job, so I came home and made a kickass dinner!

Shrimp, carrots, onions, potatoes and zucchini in a yellow curry sauce over jasmine rice. Yummy! He said that, "No one can cook like you. I love curry and you always know how to make it just right." The OW is all about convenient cooking, if it doesn't come out of jar, freezer or cover in gravy then it's not food. Also she's doesn't do ethic. I'm half Chinese so we eat a lot of different foods, and my H loves food (lucky for him he keeps his 34in waist). Jerk!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Today he was really friendly and open, but then right b4 he left for work at 7:30pm, he got all closed up. I have been trying to be loving, but not too much. I listen to what he says and repeat or ask questions about what he talks about. We joke around and I playfully touch his arm, but fleetingly.

I know to not expect a lot of acknowledgment from him right now. I have noticed that when I wear my glasses and my face is w/o makeup he's more willing to talk w/me. I don't think he is comfortable w/my changes. He said once that "I'm not sure why all the changes, you are doing this you have not done in years. Why the sudden interest in makeup and hair?" all disgusted like. I told him b/c it makes my feel better about myself, and doesn't he want me to feel better about myself after telling he that he is in love w/OW and want to bang her all the time? His response was "It's like you want to attract other men to make me feel jealous. This is not the way to get my feelings back for you." I said that if my wanting to look better and maybe even turn some heads is a problem 4 you then you're going to have to deal w/it. What's the difference, the OW tans, color her hair, get her nails done and wears make-up---all the things you have always expressed distain for, why do you think she's does that?" That was really early on in discovery.

I'm staying on course. Working on Plan B. I'm willing to give it until the end of the year. If there's no changes or if NC has been broken, then I will start Plan B.

Hey how do you contact the Harley's?

Thank you for all your help and wisdom. I guess the "ORTHO" gals need to stick together!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Tami

Contatacting the Harley's is through one of the links on the first page. I need to run and will get back to you later. But make contact with the Harley's they can also help with the NC issues. And keep doing things that make you feel good about yourself.

Fled

Hi Fled,

WOW, I just had a major talk w/19yo daughter. She really open up. She let me know that she knows what dad did and w/who. And she is disgusted w/her father. She figured it out on her own, which wasn't that hard. Considering up until about 3 months ago, the OW and her family was a major part of our social life.

She really let her dad have it. She can't believe that he would throw away our family....and everything that means anything to him. To get what...that ho! She's lost all respect for him and feels that everything in the last year was a lie. I didn't candy coat my feelings about him to her.

She and her brother (16yo) have talked. He also knows what happened and he too is disgusted. Actually his exact words were "That's so f-up." He feels the same way as his sister.
They decided to wait for dad to say something to them. They don't want to make it easy on him.

I told her why I have let him stay, that I would like to save my M. But I'm not sure how it will all turn out. I told her that their dad loves them and understands the damage he has caused. That even though it affects them it's not because of them that this happened. She said that this a crappy way to show it. I tried to explain to her that sometimes these things happen, it's not a justification but a unfortunate truth. She told me I should kick him out and maybe then he'll figure out what he would be missing. She said "Mom, you did everything for him. The OW will never even come close to you. Dad is an idiot if he thinks OW will be able to keep him happy, he will eventually have to pull his head out of his a** and other body parts too. If you guys get a D, I will blame him. Our relationship will never be the same, I can't ever trust him again." It was so sad, it's like learning that there isn't a Santa Claus.

Unfortunately in the last year, he has not only distanced himself from me. But also from his kids. So he has a lot more work ahead of him then he thinks.

I do think he's trying. Tonight when I saw him at his lunch, he showed me the work schedule. OW is working wed and thurs. night w/him til closing. He is trying to change it but his job is cutting hours and there isn't enough people he can switch with. I asked him if he can handle working w/her(heck no) and if it would cause it to have him go back to square 1? He said he didn't know. I said that it will and every time he has any contact w/her those feelings he has for her will just get stronger until one night he won't be able to resist and they will be restarting their affair.

I said you know what you need to do, I won't babysit you anymore. So we will see what he'll do.

Oh, while my daughter and I was driving to her friends apartment. My daughter was deleting some of her phone numbers off her cell and came across OW cell number. But instead of deleting it she called it. She hung up when she heard the voice mail come on. So I wonder if that will come up cause it will show my daughter's cell number. I wonder if OW will call my H with this info. I hope not but it sure is a great opening for her.

Also do you think it's a good idea for him to read HNHN? Part of me wants him to read it (if he even will), the other part I don't want to give him information on how to make it work w/OW. What do you think?

I know long post but a lot happened today. I really do think he's trying and he seems to be slowly (crawling) around the corner. And though I want to be hopeful, I don't trust that it is real. Will it ever feel right?

Tami

Tami,

I'm not FTS but if you allow me to give my opinion, I think he isn't ready to ready until he tells you he is or he goes to MC or IC.

My H has the book 'after the A' in his drawer even up until this day. He bought it supposed during one of his futile recovery attempts.

I don't believe he read it all but does flip through it periodically. Why? Because while he won't admit it, he knows where he was vs where he is now. It is not a forgotten memory for him and neither is it for me. We recall it as needed. It helps us make sure we stay focused on what is best for us and our family.

Better to get him into a good IC or MC familar with MC principals. Better yet, have him call Steve for phone counseling or let you do it for you.

He needs a recovery plan and so do you. You also need closure which your H must help you through.

JMHO,
L.

Tami,
I'm on call today with a 5 level redo spine. I'll catch up with you tomorrow.
Hang in there. And now the consequences with his children begin, its time for a counselor.

FTS

Orchid,

Thanks for your opinion, I welcome any point of view other then my own. I'm just a little to close and tend to project my "wants" into the situation. I have encourage him to go to IC, I even found a couple in the area that our insurance will cover. I printed it out and told him to look them over and decide which one to use. He glanced at them and put them back in the drawer.

What's FTS? Former T___ Spouse? I'm drawing a blank.

What's so frustrating is that he continues to talk like all is well. He talks about his plans for the garden, about us taking a long weekend in feb., and about vacation that he set up in May to Hawaii for 3 weeks. I don't even know if we be together then let alone think about a vacation to a place that we were "together" for the last time.

Though I have decided that even if we are not together come May, I will go to Hawaii. It may be hard, but I can't let him ruin all vacation destinations for me. Beside I have a friend who lives in Hilo that I can visit.

My daughter said that I should just kick his butt out and file for D. He's obviously too stupid to know what he's giving up and unwilling to do anything to make it work.
I know that's anger talking....but she's a pretty level headed kid....still it's hard to see her look at her "daddy" in that way.

I will work on him regarding IC. He's scheduled to work wed and thurs w/OW. He is trying to switch out w/other workers but there's not a lot of options. At least not at work.

Thanks for your input, I have enjoyed your posts thru-out MB.

Tami

FTS = FledTheState

Thanks JKT,

Sorry Tami, I sign off with both FTS, which is what everyone used at the beginning and now I frequently use Fled. Didn't mean to confuse you.

Now that your kids have come clean for you, you have more issues to deal with. We never told our kids. I don't think that DS10 tomorrow, ever caught on to anything. I know that DS19 next week, knew that I wasn't right. That there was something major bothering me, but I wasn't willing to share. I believed it would cause me more trouble while I tried to figure it all out.

Gut reaction from your daughter is right. And for her, at her age, with a boyfriend exactly what she should do (going through it with DS19 and his GF who did this to him two weeks ago) but that doesn't change the pain. For you or for our teenagers.

Staying and trying to recover your M is not wrong. This is a committed relationship, with long term effects on everyone (even if WS blew it). Your pain will not just go away because you boot him to the curb. That is the self-rightous, self-entitled point of view. It's very popular. It says you don't have to put up with this ******. It's right....however.

Healing requires time, In my case, I'm healing better because DH is here helping me. Holding me when I need it. Your WH is still wayward and still foggy. He can't possibly help you yet because he still needs your help to come out of the fog. What you invest right now until he can leave the foggy behind, may be what you gain when he getsw out of withdrawal. Your daughter can't see that right now. That's okay, she's in your corner. She needs to undeerstand that you need her support in this process, She doesn't have to like her dad right now, but maybe if you can all get through this together, she can again, maybe she will believe him to be a better person when it's all done, that she did a year ago??

One of the first books I read on A's was wwritten by a lady who was on Oprah, her son spoke about his dad. The 2 messages I took away from the 5 mins I saw was that NC is an absolute, and that families and marriages can heal from this. Then 3 weeks later I had my D-day.

Work on the counseling Tami. Hang in there. Do things that make you feel good especially with your kids. Think about the vacation. Maybe somewhere in that foggy WS brain, he would like to recapture what you had the last time you were there together??

Don't just leave it up to him to pick a couselor. Sit down and pick one with him. Make the appointments, are you seeing anyone in the mean time? Keep venting here.

Best wishes

FTS (Fled)

Fled,

FTS--makes sense now, DUH!!

I had another talk w/H today. I found out that the OW is continuing to call him at work even though he's told her that he can't have anything to do with her ever again.And he says that's what he tells her every time she calls but he won't tell me the "meat" of his conversation with her.

He has to close the next two nights w/her and he's worried because of his strong feelings he still has for her. He said that it's hard because he doesn't want to cont. to hurt me and he knows the coincidence if he should give into his temptation. I said "You would think that if she loves YOU as much as she says, she wouldn't keep putting you in this position." I think it's the first time he thought of it that way.

He told me that there's an opening in the food dept. which he has applied for. Even though they will still work in the same store (large store--think super Walmart), they will not be working side by side. He will making more money (not sure if that's a good idea) and get better hours. I want him to get this job, partly to get away from her but I wonder if in his mind that he can leave and be able to support himself (and her) at a later date. I just don't want to be hoodwinked again.

I've talked with my daughter again today. She says she'll be fine, but I'm worried that she's putting on a brave face for me and herself. She's not scared to talk to her dad about what happened, and she understands that what he did wasn't really about her. But she doesn't understand why he would jeopardize his family for anyone else. She said "It feels like we are not enough, that he could just discard our feelings like that." I could only tell her that dad is not himself when he made this decision. And that he's not going to be for a long time. She said that if he goes w/OW, it would be a very long time before she speaks to him again. I told her to cont. to talk to me, don't keep your feelings to herself. She said she won't shut me out.

I am worried about the next two nights. I'm trying to not LB, and I think w/her harassing him, it will cause some withdrawal from his love bank.

When he told me that she's been calling him at work...he got really stressed out. And he said "So are we going to have a crappy night now that I've told you this?" I told him that I'm not freaking out, but I do need to process this information.

I told him that he's not in a position to decide what is best for me when it comes to her. I again told him that ANY contact need to be disclosed to me no matter how unimportant he thinks they are. I told him don't put this frustration in my lap, I'm not putting him in this position, SHE is by calling him. He's not ready to see her for what she is...and he's feeling guilty for his part in this.

He said he just need to be able to work this (his feelings for her) for himself (he still misses her and wants to talk with her). I now wonder what else he's not disclosed.

I really want to ask him when was the last time he had SF with her. I'm thinking it's not as long as he says. But to be honest, I'm scared to bring it up. I'm scared to know the answer but I'm more scared of not knowing. When he talks he sounds like he really want to make our M work but I'm feeling that it's to passive me. Keep the wife happy and cont. to live in fantasy land with OW (even in his head).Do you think I should ask him before he works with her or later on this week?

What do you think? Do you thing that I'm fooling myself? I know he can't do this by himself, but I can't force him to do what he doesn't really want to do. Maybe the time has come to face that even though he loves me, he's just not "in love" with me. And hasn't felt that way,way before the A.

I'm so confused, sometimes when he talks, some of it makes sense. But then when I think about it later, I know it's just a bunch of crap. He mentioned again that he wonders if it would be easier if he did just leave (veiled "need space"). I said easier for who? You? If that is what he thinks he should do, then just do it. I won't beg you to stay, I love you enough to let you go. But I can't guarantee that I'll still be available when he finally figures it out. If you miss her....then you will REALLY miss me. He said he knows this that's why he hasn't moved out. That's not a chance he's willing to take (wish he felt that way a year ago).

You have been around, have read a lot of posts, what do you think? I need a reality check.

Fled, thanks for taking so much time talking to me. You have been great!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Tami

Your welcome. Remember, he is still in contact and foggy. He appears to be trying to stay in the M. But you know him best. If he is trying to get a promotion that will make him more money and put some distance that's good. Don't go trying to understand and rationalize and beat him to thoughts. What I mean is, if the idea was to get the job to leave and be with her. He wouldn't mess with this. It would be easier for him to leve. He wouldn't have to see your pain. The foggy waywards, think they can just leave and it will all be better. You'll get over them and move on and be happy. They don't understand the depth of their betrayal. How much damage they have done to the BS. That them walking away and letting us fix our lives doesn't fix a dam thing.

If he his giving you information about contact that's good. I know I wasn't able to ask the question about the last time they had sex. I don't really want to know if they did it the night he told me. It's more pain than I want to deal with. What does it matter, I know she was knocked up how much do I need to have it rubbed in my face?? What my H did for me, was if she called, he told her that it is over and he will not speak to her and hung up. We changed the cell phone number so she could only call him at work. He hung up on her and then immediately called and told me.

It sounds like your daughter is hanging in there. She can learn a lot from you now. About what she expects and how to deal with things maturely. You aren't cutting and running. You can still make this happen Tami. He has to defog and get counseling. you have to work on it together. It is not easy, it will not be easy. You are only, what, 2 months into this he11? Keep reading and posting. Ask for help when you need it. Vent here. Try to stay positive, if you need meds for it, then see someone and do it, it is not failure (although I felt that way at the time, I am not the person who falls apart, I'm the one that's suppose to hold it all together for everyone else: boy did I blow that for the past 2 years, the last 6 months have been much better).

And as Dr. Harley and FWS's here have said, that I love you but I'm not in love with you Bullcrap should not be listened to. They all say it and all regret it later. But it's something that the BS never forgets. Things may have gotten routine, or worse in your M before he crossed the line, those things need to be fixed. But, it does not mean that love, if it's gone (more likely believed falsely to be gone) cannot be restored.

Take care

Fled