Very good points...excellent, in fact!

I heard these very same word in our mc's office. I offered to give up on MY plan and aquiese to others's plan. When MC asked my w how she felt about that, she answer: "well I'm her aren't I?"

This thread has brought me to tears, as I have heard all of this over and over again. I printed this entire thread for my W to read. However, I doubt she ever will, let alone take it to heart.

The litmus test is in progress, we shall see. based on my other posts, you folks may be absolutely right.
'
New possibilities, must now exist, or I am nothing.

I will not be disrespected forever. It is not my nature.

All blessings,
Jerry

Jerry, it is that attitude of "So what if you're hurt? The only thing that really matters is what *I* want and you just have to suck it up." that is a killer to the relationship, IMO.

The BS feel as if everything has been ripped away from them. We do not feel LOVED...because if our spouses REALLY LOVED US, surely they never would have done such a horrible thing! Then, they end the affair (hopefully) and come home, but they don't understand that THEY ALSO have changes to make!

The BS simply cannot just decide, "Oh, my WS does love me!" Nope, it doesn't work that way. The wayward spouse is gonna have to PROVE that the love is there, if indeed it is.

My WH is not cheating now, but he still has the wayward mindset.

For example, if I happen to pick up his phone and scroll through the calls, he'll have something to say about it. I just ask him, "Got something to hide?" and then he'll shut up.

He has never told me the whole truth, and probably never will. He is not transparent, although I can usually find out where he's been/what he's doing on my own.

He scoffs at the notion that he should not interact one-on-one with any woman...says he's not going to cheat and he's going to keep his friends. Really? Well, he promised me some 37 years ago that he wasn't going to cheat.

Anything I have expressed a special wish for has been openly denied to me.

For instance, I once wanted us to renew our wedding vows, because I feel like a wife who does NOT have a husband. He quit being my husband the first time he cheated. Now? I don't want to, because I'd be marrying the same person who cheated on me to start with.

Why am I not divorced? Because of age, finances, health, and family.

He does treat me better now. Only very occasional lapses into verbal abuse, to which I quickly put a stop.

I don't need him to make me happy. It takes very little to make me happy, and I keep myself busy.

And, I CHOOSE to love him every day. Yeah, somedays, I think I'd just like to rip his head off, but I still choose to love him for the good things that I DO see in him.

I just wish he loved me enough to really be remorseful and willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild our marriage into a mutually happy and satisfying one.

Do not indulge in independent behavior.

What that means is to not carry on as if you are single and have no one else to consider when it comes to planning activities.

For instance, indulging in recreational activities (especially those involving both sexes) without your BS or without his/her enthusiastic agreement.

Your BS is not your babysitter; you had children so you could raise them TOGETHER.

Do not try to CONTROL your BS with anger when your BS expresses unhappiness with your lack of real participation in marital recovery.

LC, I am sorry to hear that things are so rough for you. I give you a lot of credit for staying, I could not do it if I were you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> This has been way too painful ~ I will not be able to stay unless things become "wonderful" ~ better even then they ever were.

And don't get so cocky to assume that the BS will always be willing to take you back if you break NC.

And don't say it wasn't an affair because it wasn't physical only online joking. Funny he doesn't want his friends or grown daughters to read his "jokingly" banter.

MarriedForever,

Sometimes it is rough..when I get to dwelling on things.

I wish I had been stronger years ago.

I have to own my own contribution, or lack therof, to this situation.

For too many years, I allowed myself to be blinded, to be gaslighted, and I did not stand up for myself.

My H is not a bad person in general, but he is a person with issues, who chooses not to see that he HAS issues.

We get along very well now. The verbal abuse has stopped, with only a couple of small relapses in the past year or so.

He knows that there are things for which I have not yet forgiven him. Not all are related to his adultery, and he has not asked for forgiveness.

While he has shown very little in the way of remorse for ANYTHING he's ever done in his life, in some areas, he HAS made changes.

What I feel now is more of a residual sadness and regret.
I get by as long as I don't think about our situation too much, but I still shed tears from time to time.

He still wants to engage in some independent activities. At this point, so long as the activities don't include other women and are not a constant thing, I'm fine with it.
I'm a person who needs quite a bit of "alone" time, so this works for me. I guess I'm guilty of independent behavior myself, or maybe being alone is just what I'm used to.

He is more affectionate in ways and makes the effort to talk with me more.

I will say this, though.

If I had to do it over, I would not have stayed married and put up with so much just because of the kids. Why? Because I can see how everything has affected the kids and been carried over into their adulthood.

Even 9 years ago, when he finally admitted to the ONS, I should have kicked him out when he announced, "I am not going to be punished."

The ATTITUDE is something that I don't think I would put up with again if I was younger.

The ATTITUDE is basically the source of any disagreement that my H and I have today. I DO call him on it.

The last time H and I had a "go-'round" about his cheating and his attitude, I asked him, "Why would it make you feel better if I wouldn't keep going on and asking questions about your cheating? Don't you think that would indicate that I don't CARE about or LOVE you?"

He hasn't answered that question yet.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />