I wasn't sure whether to post this here or in Emotional Needs. But it involves infidelity, so here I am.

My husband and I have been married for 10 years. We have one school-aged child. We are financially secure and have similar life goals. In many ways we make a good team. We do have EN issues: there is little to no affection such as hugs, kissing, etc. (aside from sex) and no verbal affection (no "I love you" or "you look great" etc.). He works a lot and we don't spend much time talking. This has always bothered me, but has been exacerbated by the infidelity. Read on...

3 years ago, my husband had a one-time-only 'affair' with a woman, a stranger, while on an overseas business trip. I use quotes around 'affair' because (he says) they didn't have sex, but made out and groped one another in a bar for several hours. About a week later, he was behaving strangely and I just guessed that something was wrong. I asked him point blank if he was having an affair and he told me what had happened. He was very apologetic. We went to a few sessions of marital therapy, but stopped because he didn't think it was helpful.

About nine months after that I found out that he had been going to strip clubs periodically for most of the years we had been married. He would either go to them while traveling out of town for work, or if he was home, he would lie to me about meeting a friend for a drink. As I said, this went on for years before I found out about it. I became suspicious after finding bank statements with hundreds of dollars taken out of downtown ATMs. He spent a ton of money on lap dances. He admitted to visiting clubs hundreds of times over the years. When I found out, he was about to leave for an international business trip for 2 weeks. He again was very apologetic and arranged for me and our son to accompany him at the last minute. I think he was afraid I would divorce him. He spent those 2 weeks (when not in work meetings) slathering me with verbal and physical affection. All the things I had craved throughout our marriage: hugs, kisses, compliments, I Love Yous, etc. It was wonderful. It stopped soon after we got home.

Since then, we have moved twice and he has been working a lot. I don't think he has cheated on me at all or gone to any strip clubs. I keep a close eye on the bank statements and his comings and goings, and he knows that I will divorce him if he does any of this. He won't go to therapy because he thinks it's a waste of time, and that a stranger can't possibly help us because he doesn't know us.

So, several years later, we have coasted along. I am still very suspicious but don't let that be known. He doesn't have my trust back, at all. I sometimes check up on him and read his email. I haven't found anything, and I'm not sure I would if he didn't want me to. But honestly, I don't think he's cheating.

My main problem, now, is that #1, my emotional needs not being met is really killing me, and #2 it's worsened by the fact that I'm still hurting from those past wounds. I have dreams about those 2 weeks on the trip where he told me he loved me all the time. Everytime I try to talk to him about it, it ends up being a 4-hour late night conversation with me crying and him being withdrawn and angry and defensive. He says he's incapable of meeting my emotional needs. I end up feeling selfish and insecure for being so upset about it.

As I said, we do have a child and I would hate to split at this point after we have tried hard to weather some serious storms. But I feel broken and empty. He hasn't told me that he loves me in years (except for that work trip). He never hugs me. When I hug him, he doesn't huge me back. I haven't received a compliment or flowers or any spontaneous affection in years. I feel selfish for thinking this, but I often feel like I'm wasting the "best years of my life" enduring what feels like a loveless marriage. I spend a lot of time trying to decide if it would be worse to divorce or stay together. At this point, I feel that I can't blame the infidelity for a potential divorce, because I stayed and accepted it. I'm depressed and feel painted into a corner.

Given my novel length post, I welcome any advice you might have for me.

E

1st of all, he has never given you closure. Read SAA and HNHN (both by Harley). Both of you take the EN questionnaire. If he won't you do it twice, 1st as you, then as him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Then call Steve H @ MB for some MC. If your H won't join you, you do it anyway. You are the one who needs the closure and he needs a dosage of reality.

When u r strong enough, ask him... no tell him you want to talk with that guy who you met on that 2 week 'trip'. He will ask 'what guy'? You will say, the one who said and did nice things for me. I want to see him again. Don't say any more, just that you want to see that man. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Give him to let it sink in.

When you read HNHN you will find out HOW to communicate with the opposite sex. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

Eglass

Part of recovering a M after infidelity is the (F)WS, former wayward spouse, has to become transparent, meaning everything he does he has to open up to you. This earns them your trust again and you're able to move forward without having to check up on them. A situation that would drive a spouse nuts if it went on forever. This has not happened in your sitch.

I believe your M can be much better and I urge you to read this forum and the basic concepts here. Also the books Orchid recommended.

I think it is time to rock the boat. You are both withdrawn and you both are vulnerable.

You can't change others, just yourself. I would try to find out his top ENs and start meeting them the best you can. See if he comes around to start meeting yours. It's not going to happen overnight, but you should see something in a few weeks.

Also figure out which love busters(LBs) you are doing. And try to eliminate them.

If you two can start to reconnect, you may be able to move forward past the hurt. And one other thing...when you discuss hard topics, discuss them as calm and clearly as possible. Don't drag it out for hours. Stay on topic. Use "I feel" statements.

And if you possibly can call Steve Harley. He can give you a plan, a course of action.

Good luck.

MicheleG, thanks for your reply.


Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, but he really has become transparent. He told me everything that happened with the overseas affair as well as the strip clubs. He offered to take me with him on every overnight business trip, and for a while, we did go with him. I have access to all the banking and financial information as well as his email password information. Is there something else that should be happening in terms of transparency?


We've actually both read the sections on this website about ENs. He said that I meet his ENs (basically, sex and respect). He doesn't know why he strayed from the marriage. We have sex 2-3 times per week, sometimes more often, and I never turn him down unless I'm sick. Occasionally I'll say something like, "I want you to show me affection OUTSIDE the bedroom" but it never happens. We've talked the EN issue to death, to the point where I feel really needy and almost like a whiny child. The thing that hurts is that I feel crappy asking him for something that I feel should come naturally. Shouldn't a husband want to tell his wife he loves her, even occasionally? Shouldn't a husband want to hug his wife, especially if he hasn't seen her all day? Even after a long trip out of town, there is no hug with "I missed you." I feel like my expectations are well within the normal range, but he says he cannot do it. He IS affectionate with our son - he hugs him and tells him that he loves him. We've talked about this weird difference and he says it's different when it's parental love. He admits that he doesn't know why he can't meet my EN. We have even talked about him trying to force himself to do it every day, and he even said he would do it, but nothing happened. I feel like I've beaten this horse to death. Now I am disgusted and tired of asking for the same things for years with no movement on his part.

E

Thanks, L. I have read HNHN. I will take the questionnaire you mentioned, and ask him to do it; thank you for that suggestion.

And about asking about "that man" - that's a conversation we've had. I have said that I wish we could have that again, that it was almost like a cruel joke for me to experience that kind of love and affection for only 2 weeks. I tell him that I dream about it, that it is my fantasy. It really doesn't do anything. I think he has some kind of block that keeps him from showing me nonsexual physical and verbal affection. Again, it's something we've talked to death. But I'm willing to keep trying and will use the form of approach you recommended - I will try anything at this point.

I'll also looking into calling the folks at MB. I'm not sure it's possible right now.

E

Ok then E,
What about LBs? Angry outbursts, selfish demands, annoying habits, disrespectful judgements...do you do any of these? Think hard.

(You're the one here, so you are the one that we are going to examine.)

You also said his top ENs were SF and respect. Are you meeting these needs THE WAY he needs them to be met? Try to find that out.


If he is transparent, why do you feel this way?


Maybe it is time to sit him down and tell him how you feel, that you are losing your love for him due to the state of the M and your perceived idea that he won't contribute to meeting your needs and that MC is a must.



Sounds like he doesn't do much internal maintenance here. He shouls know why he had an A, so he can protect his weaknesses, so it does not happen again. That is something he really needs to figure out.

The not meeting your ENs and not knowing why sounds like a cop out to me. Does he have childhood baggage?

MC would help him to understand himself so he can figure out the Ys.

I think you really should stand firm on MC.

No explanation about 'that man'. Just let him know you want to speak to 'that man' and for him to let you know when he finds him. Then leave it be.

L.

Make an appointment with a marriage counselor. Then tell H:

eglass

I would imagine that someone who works hard at job the requires a lot travel...and a lot of independance may also be someone who desires or has as an EN admiration

how are you at thanking him for his hard work
how often do you tell him you are proud of how he does his job...

(i realize this may difficult based on his actiivities while traveling)


but the idea here is to change the environment
and change the patterns that have brought you here...

also

what happens if you MEET him at the door with a big smoochie
what happens if you plop your feet in his lap for a rub
or ask him to rub his back
does he do it then

ARK