Cigars anyone? It is a boy! I have officially lost it now but I went to the hospital to see it and spent at least an hour at the nursery window looking at every line of this kids being as though it were a famous painting. I think I thought I would see something that would look like my H or not. It's a cute kid, I wanted to hate it but can't. <BR>I miss my H soooooooooo bad and my life!<BR>Somebody please, wake me up from this!!!!<p>[This message has been edited by Smith (edited October 03, 1999).]

Smith,<BR>I'm so sorry for your pain. You were brave to visit the hospital-wow. I never did see the child in our case, despite being in the same county for two months. I did not think I could run into the OW without commiting a major act of violence. You are brave. You hang in there. Grief is a journey you CAN survive even when you wish you wouldn't. There WILL be better days!! (You've still got the DNA test to go, right?) May angels surround you...

nope, you can't hate the child....can't be done...in fact you could love the child ....remember this when you talk to your H...you could love the child too smith...you're marriage doesn't have to end over it....<P>------------------<BR>Kellie<BR>There's no place that far.<BR>

Hi, Smith,<P>I'm glad you touched base with us - been wondering how you are. One answer: you are BRAVE! I'm glad you feel you can't hate the child - whatever the circumstances of its birth, it didn't ask for them. The baby is an innocent; and it may be a part of someone you love very much.<P>Please tell us what's been happening, if you feel like it - I'd love to know. And meanwhile, I'll second those angels that Jenny sent!<P>Hang in there, Smith. As they say, life's a mystery sometimes. But it has a way of being revealed sooner or later. Keep in touch!<P>suse

Smith, I can understand your need to see the child. I saw the child (boy) in our case of my H's by a picture displayed in my mother-in-laws' bedroom. Talk about that hitting you in the gut! I don't know that I don't despise the child - I know the child is innocent, however, it is a visual "real" reminder of the affair that my H had and a "reason" for them to be entwined forever. I can't deal with that - call me psycho whatever - I cannot get to the point that you appear to be so quickly (able to not hate the child) I hate the child (and he is 5 months old; I hate my mother-in-law for desiring to have a relationship with him; I hate my H each time I think of the "child" and knowing that he created it with someone other than me - when he promised he would be faithful to me. I'm sorry I don't mean to bring you down - I just identify with you. I admire you for having the guts to go to the hospital. I, also, could not be around the OW without committing some violent act which would land me in jail. Any advice from anyone on my anger and my hate?<P>------------------<BR>

Daycare Disaster, I understand your feelings. While she was in labor I sat at my desk at work thinking "please let it die". When I went to the hospital and saw it I whispered an apology. Only seeing it changed the hate, a picture would not have. I still hate her though! I don't know if anything will ever change that. <P>Suse, Jenny, Kel,<BR>Thanks for being there. Those angels need to be a little closer than they are right now.<BR>Why so long on the DNA? My H and OW have not even had test yet. Her H doesn't want it so OW and my H have agreed to do this behind his back. I think she is hoping it will be my H's and that will pull them together. <P>We got the papers in the mail. I am in the 30 day waiting period for the divorce. It is official on June 21st (exactly 10 months after they conceived this child), she had this kid exactly on her due date. What are the odds of that? Everything seems to work out so perfect for her!<P>I am so sad about all this. Anti-deps aren't enough! It's awful!<P>Jenny, tell me again, how long ago did you get these results in the mail and how long does it take to have just one good day?<BR>Did your H know what she was naming it? How can these men destroy our lives like this? What has happened to the world? No justice to any of this!!! When will she get a payback? I know I didn't deserve this, everything taken and she has everything working out for her.<BR>I gotta quit, I'm starting to cry.<p>[This message has been edited by Smith (edited October 03, 1999).]

Smith, <BR>Aw-The million dollar questions!<BR>WHY< WHEN< HOW. I know that this was directed at Jenny but I am going to reply too. Why us? Maybe, just perhaps we were chosen because we are the strongest! Maybe there is some purpose that this serves in all our lives. Did we deserve it? Absolutely NOT! Will OW get her own punishment? DEFINITELY! When? Could be tomorrow, in five years or actually she might suffer the rest of her entire life! I still have to believe that even though these OW seem to be "flying High" they are suffering deep inside for what they have done to US! I NEED to believe that people just can't be that "bad" in this world. Maybe we will never see their pain- because they always look like they are sitting pretty! The truth is no one has a perfect life. <P>The other day I was talking to my H and I was talking about another girl that I had known that "GOOD Things" always seemed to happen to her even though she was this mean person. My H said "It may appear that everything always goes her way... but there are things that you just don't know." "Everyone has their share of problems, some just hide them very well." At that point I decided that I was being ridiculous. Being jealous over other people who looked as though they HAD IT ALL. Realizing that I was so ungrateful for "everything" that I have! There are so many other things that could have happened that are much worse. For instance what if this OW would have had AIDS? Really how lucky we are that it was a child that was born-- not us being diagnosed with some terrible disease. <P>We all feel this way as far as why me? I had my share of these questions constantly. <P>Wow, that really did take a lot of guts to go see the baby at the hospital... but I know it was one of those things that you just had to do! I don't know how long a paternity test takes etc... my stepson looks identical to my H so there was no need for it in our case. <P>Smith, you really have grown so much through this whole terrible nightmare. I have watched you blossom from the first time you came on marriage builders. You are a Good person-- good things will happen to you! You just have to look for them. Make the best out of everyday. This is not punishment to you... unfortunately it is just a mistake that two people made that directly affected you. I really don't think that your H ever set out to hurt you this badly. I am sure that he is suffering deeply with feelings of regret. Even though it may not be visible to you. Always try and see the best in people... I know that it is hard!<P>Good luck and God Bless

Smith, I am glad to hear from you, although not under these circumstances, How are you doing today, I to am amazed at your bravery in the situation, you truly are a remarkable person. I have thought about you often, and hoped everything was allright with you. <P>How did you find out about the labor and birth of the child? what an awfull ordeal for you to have to live through. I can't even imagine how painful it must have been. please know that my prayers and thoughts are with you. <P>also, know in your heart that people like OW will always have to live with the things that they have done to hurt people. I have witnessed how these things come back to haunt people and it isn't a pretty sight. You should feel proud of yourself and see how wonderful it is that you could look at this child and not feel hate.<P>Hang in there and stay in touch!<BR>Cammi

Smith,<BR>I do admire you for going to the hospital. The OW delivered May 6, my husband has seen the boy but not me. I am going to pray that this birth does not rekindle the connection. It seems like it has in my marriage. My H is really concerned about her well-being. That hurts so much. I must agree that this happened to us because we are strong. I look in the mirror and say you are awesome. If this happened to the OW she couldn't handle it. We are special people. God loves us and we will be given double joy for our pain.

Hi to all!<P> Daycare Disaster, Smith, I heard your cry for help. The feeling of hate is horrible, horrible, horrible. Verb: to hate. What works in order to let it go is going to vary from one person to another. Personally, I've started a collection of forgiveness tips, prayers, etc. which I'd be happy to share. But I'll be honest; they don't always work. 'Cus sometimes we don't want it to; we don't want to let go; we need to be angry! Recovery is a work in progress. I'll tell you one thing. You have to let that hate go FOR YOU. Not for the OW, the O-kid, your H, but FOR YOU. If you can't do it for you, those of you with kids (DD, I know you have a daughter), do it for your kid; if you don't have kids, do it for a parent or grandparent or God, because no matter how messed up your childhood, someone somewhere loves you so much they wish they could take on every bit of your pain to spare you. Because that hate is like a toxic chemical in your system and mine; it can even cause disease, like cancer. Hate is toxic anger. Anger hides the sadness. Anger keeps up the veil of right-ness, as no one can feel wrong when they're angry.<P> I'm not saying we're to blame, either. I'm saying we're human. We don't ever want to think we could ever do such wrong and cause such pain and betray and devastate so totally.But I don't really know that. I LIKE to think I do, but no one knows anything 'til they have BEEN there, 'til they feel so down and the opportunity presents itself and who knows what else. There are so many spiritual ways of looking at these things, and I may come off sounding insane if I mention them, but what the heck?!...<P>Maybe the two betrayers acted of their own free will and will burn in hell because of it. Maybe God will forgive the betrayers that are remorseful in the Christian tradition. Maybe someone is paying off a karmic debt, or now owes one-- big time! Maybe someone needed to learn to forgive. Maybe someone needed to learn remorse. Maybe someone, someone very strong, needed to be born in adverse circumstances to learn something we can't even imagine. Maybe someone needed to do something this devastating to motivate themselves to change and heal other wounds. We won't really know WHY 'til we ask the guy upstairs Hisself. <P>Meanwhile, how do you want to live your life?? Honestly, what are your hopes and dreams? What do you need to do to heal? What do you want in your future? Now DO WHATEVER IT TAKES to do that. These messed up OWomen will have to live for eternity with the ripples they've caused in Life. Let God, whatever you conceive Him to be, take care of Her and Live your life! Grieve, Heal, and Live! Fulfill your purpose on Earth (and you know it ain't 'disin' Her!)<P>It's after midnight my time, ladies. Forgive me my preachin'

I hope I did not give anyone a worse day by my reply. They say we say the things we most need to hear and that's probably what I need to hear. I'm sorry if it wasn't what anyone else needed.<P>It's been 10 months since H's affair was over and I'm still grieving. I'm alternately angry and sad, with a few good days thrown in for good measure. We all have the additional PAIN of the O-child, the sanctity of our marriages destroyed not only by the affair, but by the birth of children, an act that should be so sacred and beautiful, that people usually think of as affirming a relationship, turned so UGLY. Lord help us all.

Smith: I feel my heart breaking for you and for all of us sharing the same surrealistic journey. "It just can't be possible". I find myself reciting the same strange mantra over and over again, "Please, God, don't let it be true, don't let it be his." I am praying for you that God will comfort, protect, guide and bless you and give you strength. I have to wait until late August. Which is harder: the waiting or the reality?<P>Nabs: I worry about you because we don't hear from you very much...and I know I'm in withdrawal myself...holding up at home licking wounds trying to get strong. Is this what you are doing? I want to take all our pain away with some kind of offering. I wish you and Smith and Jenny and Ladydv and Daycare and myself could all get together and perform some kind of exorcism and powerful prayer together to take away the pain and restore our marriages.<P>Jenny: Your wisdom inspires me, humbles me, comforts me...you say everything I feel about anger, sadness, betrayal, strength and the gut-wrenching disappointment and sadness at having something so beautiful like our marriages be tarnished and sullied forever, to never be the same again; especially with this worse case scenario always looming, always reminding... This compounded with the loss of innocence and the contentment and joy we all once felt gone forever is a loss too hard to endure at times. I cannot believe the pain and devastation I feel and the sadness at loosing the most important thing in my life...that "specialness" that was just ours and will never be again because it was shared with someone else.<P>Your attempt at forgiveness and your total honesty is incredible to behold from someone so young. You must be an old soul, Jenny.<P>So, Ladies, is this three born and two to go in our infamous little group? Please advise. I'll be away for a couple days and will post Wednesday. God bless you all, Brave and Kind Women.

HOW do we not hate? Someone please tell me? Somrtimes it is her, sometimes him and sometimes I actually hate me for my reaction to all this!! I swear I thought I couldn't get lower...I am lower tonight! <BR>Sometimes it seems if not for you all in this mess together, where would I go for comfort?

Smith,<BR>Sometimes it's not possible to not hate, I think; really. We've experienced something so breathtakingly painful, how could we not?? It's normal.<P>I remember when my first daughter died I wanted someone to blame, someone to hate, when that anger stage was SO strong. Now that I'm in a situation where I Have someone to hate, I wish I didn't. Because it hurts me, myself, so much. <P>Sometimes prayer helps me. Serenity prayer. Another little prayer: (God is my hope in every need; God does my every hunger feed; God walks beside me, guides my way, through every moment of the day). There's another prayer for forgiveness that someone posted here at the board, asking God to heal relationships before we go to sleep. I'll post it if you like. I've gotten a few other hints like these if you'd like them.<P>Getting your anger OUT, in any exercise, or smashing old dishes, or chopping up fruit, or shredding old papers/magazines by hand... That's all to the good. <P>Helping someone in worse shape than yourself is supposed to be good, like volunteering in a soup kitchen, old age home, children's hospital, etc. I haven't had time for that myself, but it might take you out of your life and make you appreciate what you still have (your health, etc.)<P>Just some ideas....<BR>Best wishes and love,<BR>"Jenny"

Hey fellow women (strong aren't we)? I am having a good week for a change. You know after going through this in my life I would never wish this pain and heartache on anyone (except maybe the OW). How do people wreck people's life and act like there is no remorse? Do seem people honestly have no conscience? I think that in time we will all be healed. I do believe that because we are strong women (even if we don't think we are momentarily) we have been "chosen" to endure this. A weaker person would close up and die. We are fighting for what is ours. (our husbands, our lives) What Jenny said is true - I finally had to find "something" to live for. I couldn't do it for myself - I never thought I was that worthy - but I'm doing it for my daughter. I don't want her to see some pathetic piece of Vile Garbage as her mother - I'm trying so hard to be the kind of mom she is proud of. It is not easy. let me say that again - IT IS NOT EASY! I pray that we all have the strength to take one day at a time and face each day with the courage to "hang in there". I'm sorry for trying to sound positive. There is not many days I'm "up" when I post. I usually post when I'm at my wits end. Please if I can offer anyone any help- please let me know. I never dreamed that there were so many of us in the same shoes. My H's and OW's child will be 6 mos. this month! <P>------------------<BR>

She brought the kid by my H's office to show my H_____ugh!

Oh my gosh - what happened when OW brought child by the office? Did the office people know who this OW is and the child? Oh yuck, gag me with a spoon! I'm so sorry for you.<P>------------------<BR>

Daycare, I am told that the folks in his office have no idea but i cannot imagine that. <BR>I think she came by there to show her kid and make my H take a look. maybe develope some sympathy or a bond, who knows, give me break is all I can think of either of them at this point. Why does he even tell me? Keep in mind we are divorcing so he owes me no info on any of this. We were always best friends and I think he talked to me as a friend and he is still doing that even though we live seperate. He doesn't talk to any boby else and doesn't realize he hits a nerve with me when he talks about this kid or her.<P>On a better note, today was one of the first days in a long time that I can recall that I had a good day, not great, even bad but felt good because I didn't feel depressed and sad all day. It didn't require as much effort to feel OK and as a result, I felt good at not having to force feelings.<BR>Does this mean I am getting over all this? I don't know, I still miss him something awful. I am not sure that will change for a very long time.

Hi Smith: I am so glad you had a better day. How long did it take for that to happen? I miss my H desperately, too, and he's still living with me in the house. He's ther in body but not in spirit or emotionally. It's all very weird. <BR>I know what you mean about the H asking or telling you inappropriate things. My H liked to tell me over and over again that sex was not that good with the OW...that it was a lot of 'work'. He kept saying that over and over again like he wanted me to ask WHY it was a lot of work. Like a dope, I finally did ask him why it was a lot of work to bang her. He told me they had to do it a long time because it took her so long to reach orgasm. When he told me that I gasped and felt sick as if I had just been beaten with a baseball bat. He wanted to say that to me. Why did he think I needed this information? Now all I can replay in my head is long, lazy hour long encounters that resulted in her pregnancy. Then he asked me if I thought she missed him! How the he** would I know? And why does he feel so comfortable asking me something like that? Is he a sick twisted sadistic evil man or just incredibly stupid and insensitive? Please file this under "CAN U BELIEVE THIS".<BR>So I guess I have the dubious honor of continuing to be my H's "best friend" and he feels comfortable making incredibly hurtful statements and asking me incredibly painful questions because he's used to talking to me about everything and has noone else to discuss these things with. Incredible. Meow.<P>

Hi Smith,<P>I am glad you had a good day...even an ok day is a good thing. : )<P>If your H's discussions about the OW and the baby bother you so much explain that to him. I think your feelings and concerns are way more important at this point than to listen to his inner mind pratter. But then on the flip side if you ever want to re-build a relationship with him it might be a good thing to still show him you care. And by him discussing all this with you it shows you he still trusts you. <P>I guess I am saying what do you want? I just hope and pray for you that the baby is not his. Do you think she went by to show the baby to your H because she really is trying out of desparation to still have some ties to your H? This is what I am thinking. He did not go to the hospital to see it. I would also asume then that he did not go by her house to see it either. To me that means he is distancing him self from her. I am not there living in the situation with you but this is what I think.