Hoo:

I'm going 2 be direct and very blunt, right up front: Your plan WILL NOT WORK! AT ALL.


This is precisely why you need professional help. Call the Harleys and get an appointment for a session as quickly as possible. While you wait for your appointment, read everything you can on the home page about infidelity. There are a number of excellent articles there, that cover the main points that are in greater detail in Harley's book "Surviving an Affair."

You need 2 stop trying 2 make sense of your W's behavior. Look up "WAT's quickstart guide for betrayed spouses" on this forum. They will help immensely 2 get you on a firmer footing for getting busy doing the RIGHT things with a GOOD plan.


Do you imagine, in some way, that you will be able 2 have a civil discussion when she comes home? ...IF she comes home? If you have 2 get angry, then I think you should. You should STOP TALKING YOURSELF INTO ALLOWING THIS WEEKEND TRYST 2 CONTINUE WITHOUT INTERFERENCE.


A worthy goal, but not a point you're going 2 be capable of achieving, in all likelihood, for a few more months. Do you want 2 allow the A 2 become even more firmly established before you do something about it?


I do know. It's a foolish mistake.


That's why I recommend you read the articles, call the Harleys, and read WAT's quickstart guide.


Remember, though, that your friend is not a professional, your marriage is at stake, and simply sitting by discussing it will accomplish little.


This will not work. Call her and disrupt this nonsense weekend RIGHT NOW.


As WAT says, your W has been abducted by aliens and had her brains scrambled. She is not CAPABLE of having a rational discussion, particularly with her H, whom she is lying 2 and betraying. You keep expecting your W 2 come home. But she's been abducted!


Stop trying 2 make sense of her behavior and start FIGHTING for your MARRIAGE and your FAMILY.


If you don't want a DV, get a legal separation. At the very least, separate your finances by putting your salary in2 an account she has no access 2.


She may indeed leave. That's her choice 2 make. And you do need 2 protect yourself and your kids, and the marital assets in the event she does this.


But she obviously does NOT have the strength 2 make the right choice, or she wouldn't be having an affair!!! Stop trying 2 justify HER bad behavior by trying 2 make some sense of it. It's IMPOSSIBLE.


This plan will fail completely.


Yes, she'll be pissed. Still, don't reveal your sources.


You can't educate her. Don't even try. Do not point anything like this out 2 her.


But it's a typical fog. They all do the same things.

Now, get BUSY.

-ol' 2long

I understand what everyone is saying about calling and interrupting it. And yes I do feel like we could have a rational discussion about it when she gets back. I could very well be wrong.

Why don't I want to call her? I guess on some level, I feel like it doesn't matter, she's made her choice and what can I really do about it? Sure I could try and end the affair. That's going to cause her to get really angry though and I don't know what she would do.

Except listen to and act on the excellent advice that you've been given here to stop their mom's train wreck that will surely affect them for the rest of their lives.

You came here for a reason. You've been getting great advice from some of the best on this site. You can't REASON anything with your wife right now because she's not REASONABLE.

Want to start turning this thing around TODAY? Act on the advice you've been given.

Dude...

You are getting huge amounts of great advice here, and are just ignoring it. Most of us who are responding have been in your shoes. We found this site, took the advice we received, plugged it in, and saved our marriages.

This advice is based on Dr. Willard Harley's advice, and he is the founder of this site and author of several very good and very successful marriage books.

Now you can do this "your way", or you can do it Harley's way with the advice of people who have lived through this, by following the MB principals, and the advice of people who take time out of their daily lives to help people, just like you, whose lives have been dealt a horrible blow due to infidelity.

I didn't find this site until 5 months after D-day, and I made so MANY mistakes, it set me way behind the 8-ball in the efforts to save my marriage.

Affairs are very much like addictions, and those involved are addicted to the feelings they get in pursuing the A partner. It causes them to forsake ALL ELSE, even their children, in their pursuit to get their fix.

You obviously don't know how to deal with this. Why not take a chance and believe we may know what we're talking about, and follow some of the advice you've been given? You will begin to feel empowered by taking steps that make a difference. Even Dr. Harley says many of the things he recommends are counterintuitive. Your friends and family will advise to you cut your losses and run. People here believe their marriage is, or was, worth saving, and did the work, and give back to the forums what they learn in their travails.

Flying by the seat of your pants is a recipe for disaster!

Have you done ANY snooping as has been recommended to you?

Best wishes,
SD

I have been snooping, but she has covered her tracks well. I had been considering a keylogger but then she told me it was over and she couldn't do it anymore, I figured at that point there was no point in further snooping.

My evidence to date consists of one email.

That is the entireity of the evidence that I have, and she has changed all her passwords so I cannot get anything else right now. She has a laptop (mine actually) she uses and took it with her, so I can't install a keylogger until she returns.

So I guess the question is, is that enough damning evidence? Seems it would be almost impossible to assume anything else.

So basically I should call her right? I'm almost positive she won't answer. What should I say? I have his cell number too, should I call him if she doesn't answer and ask to speak to her?

I give, I'll try it, I'm willing to call her. What do I say?

What would you like to say?

Ask what you want to know. Demand the truth.

I would purchase and install a keylogger, and get more evidence.

I'm not sure I'd confront until I have enough evidence to stand up in court.

Others will advise you to press on regardless of the evidence.

Call her and STAY CALM.

Tell her your HEART tells you she is with another man. Tell her you are willing to work on what is wrong with the marriage, and when she gets back, you'd like to talk about how to do that. Tell her she is still a married woman and her choices are very damaging to you and your kids.

Here's what you'll hear back... a litany of excuses, jusifications and FOG BABBLE. She'll re-write the entire history of your marriage, and she's not been happy for YEARS, blah, blah, blah.

Just let her know you care, and you are willing to work on the marriage.

In the mean time, READ all you can from Harley's writings on this site, and purchase the book, Surviving an Affair. Read a bunch of other threads, and see how typical and common the actions of a Wayward are, just as if they are scripted.

This all takes a great deal of learning, patience, and actions, so prepare yourself for a ride!

See, she's already said she's done, doesn't want to try. I've already expressed that I still care and want to fix it. What's the point in saying that again?

Search the entire house for more evidence while she's gone.

Look in every nook and crannie. Scour the credit card receipts. Get the key logger and install it. Make copies or notes of everything you find.

Wait a week, see what you glean from the keylogger, and read and learn more. Create your list for exposure, but wait until you have the damming evidence before you expose, so she can't deny.

Go online and find a PI in the area she's visiting, and he can track her from grandma's place, if that's where she's staying. If she's in a motel, check the online credit card receipt, so he (PI) has a starting point. If they are together, what better time than to have a PI on their tail?

Ok, I am thinking getting more evidence might be good.

not at all... doesn't matter...

I suppose not, if the emotional attraction was there. But I guess I look at it that even though we are not legally divorced, we are effectively emotionally divorced since she said it was over and she would try no more. Which makes an affair after the fact somewhat less morally questionable. But if it was an EA before that I guess it still counts. But I'm not sure I'll be able to find out what happened in the past given that she's probably kept her email accounts pretty clean.

I still feel like it's all kind of moot though since the big issue would be how long this has been going on and what happened before she told me we were done. I'm not sure that I'll be able to glean much info about that.

Hooloo --

She said she's "done" BECAUSE she's having an affair.

She wasn't done, then started the affair.

Don't let her foggy explanations wear you down.

This is a CLASSIC case, and your wife is not saying anything unique or different than any other woman who started having an affair and then wanted out of the marriage.

Its a classic case of re-writing history.
She was "done" so therefore its not an affair??? PLEASE!

You will never get a straight answer out of her on what came first -- her affair, or the end of her feelings for you. Its all BS anyway!

The big issue is NOT how long its been going on -- BUT THE FACT THAT SHE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR!!

It almost seems like you feel you need to justify your anger. You are angry right?

Lets get your head straight. You have nothing to apologize for. Snooping when your wife is trying to destroy your marriage is small potatoes next to what she is doing right???

Follow the carrot and stick of Plan A!

I do on some level feel like I should not be angry. After all I feel like it was my failure to meet her needs that drove her to this. I know that doesn't make it right, and I'm not beating myself up over it, but on some level I feel like I should be understanding about it. That's probably a load of crap huh <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am angry. I'm trying not to hold onto it though, I can't see anger helping the situation at all...

Another question, is the surviving an affair book at all helpful in my situation? It seems like it's geared towards surviving it when both partners actually want the marriage to survive even though the spouse having the affair may not want to end it. In my case my wife has said in no uncertain terms she has no interest in continuing on with me. Does this book have helpful advice for that sort of situation?

I can virtually guarantee that she will do that. My FWW claimed on D-Day that her A with the OM had nothing to do with our M, that our M was effectively dead when she started her A.

It's all fogbabble. But don't tell her that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

HLV,

Okay, let me get this straight. By YOUR rules, I could, right now:

Go tell my husband "I'm done working on the marriage."

Then, go out tonight, have a one-night stand with whoever I pick, do it up reallll gooood.

Then, come home, tell him I changed my mind, and now want to work on the marriage again.

AND THE SEX DOESN'T COUNT??????


Wow.


Those are some rules.




NOT.
The affair counts, HLV. You don't get to say, "Gee, I'm done." and do nothing in the way of legal moves to make the marriage over, nothing at all. You still stay in the marriage, stay in the marital bed, stay in the home, stay in the financial arrangement, and everything else. And have a guy on the side - that just isn't the way it works.

Sorry, HLV. That isn't how things work.

She 'TECHNICALLY' and REALLY had an affair.

And you can paint it with whatever color you want to paint it, but it still comes out the same thing.

The next thing you need to hear is that the choice for her to have the affair rests ENTIRELY with her.

No matter what kind of husband you were.
No matter what emotional needs you did not meet.
No matter what chores you didn't do.
No matter what kind of lover you were.
No matter if you have bad breath.
No matter if you pile your dirty socks on the floor.
No matter if you didn't take her out enough.
No matter if you asked for sex too often.
No matter if you didn't give her an orgasm enough.
No matter if the color of your underwear wasn't right on Tuesday.

The choice of having the affair is 100% completely and totally your wife's choice.

And therefore, the affair is 100% completely and totally your wife's fault.

Because if YOU had been there, and if YOU had a vote, you would have voted: NO!

Now that you understand that, you are allowed to accept 50% of the blame for the STATE of the marriage prior to the affair. That is ALL you can accept the blame for. YOUR part. Your wife accepts her part.

Wrap your head around that one, HLV.

Because it is the cold, hard truth on this. And the sooner you get into that mode, the better you will deal with this event, and the more power you will have in dealing with your wayward wife's super-babble when you confront her with her affair.

And believe me, you will not believe some of the [email]cr@p[/email] that she will spill out at you. You need to be prepared, because if you want to save this marriage, you will need [email]b@lls[/email] of steel and a backbone to match. Don't walk into this with the fear that "it's all my fault" or "I was a bad husband and made her do it" because that is NOT a positon of power.

Trust me, if you want your wife back, you will NEED to be a man who comes from a position of strength, dignity, and a sense of inner power (NOT AGGRESSION BTW) to do this. You need to be attractive, and men of strength, diginity and inner power are attractive. Men who are weak and fearful are not.

Put on your armor.

SB

Ok that makes sense, that I can accept some responsibility for the state of the marriage but the affair was her choice. And yes, you're right, if the affair ended and she decided in a month she wanted to stick out our marriage, it would count.


What do I do when I confront her? Listen and Validate? Do I try to get my feelings across or just ignore that for now? Do I tell her that regardless of how she feels that I believe this is the reason she said she's done with our marriage, that the reason she feels I can't meet her needs is because she's getting them met elsewhere? Do I check my anger and hurt? Do I give her an ultimatum that it needs to end or she needs to leave?

I don't know how to approach this with the maximum chance of having a future together... I'm considering calling for a phone coaching session but I don't know how quickly that can happen, anyone know if it is a matter of days or weeks?

Is your goal here to avoid making your wife angry or is it to SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE? See, these people are trying to do the latter, you are trying to do the former. Unfortunately, appeasement of a wayward wife who is he11bent on destroying your marriage will get you.............a destroyed marriage.

If you are NOT making her mad, then you are doing something WRONG. You are ENABLING her affair by sitting there refusing to do SOMETHING. You are very much in a "plan," the ENABLEMENT PLAN.

I guess I should ask, since you are so inordinately scared of her anger, can she kick your [censored]? Is that why you are so abnormally scared of her? Is she a big gal?

No, it doesn't. Adultery is adultery is adultery. There is no free pass on adultery. There is no such thing as an adultery entitlement.


Matters not a whit. Adultery is adultery is adultery.


The only issue is that you know she is having an affair. You don't need to know how it began to know it is an affair. It matters not a whit.

And you did a good job setting up a way to spy on her. Spying on an untrustworthy person is a VIRTUE that should be practiced in order to protect yourself.

hooloo, the others are giving you good advice and I only hope that you aren't too scared of your wife to follow it. It won't be easy and she may yell at you and be angry, but if you can withstand that without collapsing into tears that is what it will take.

It will take confrontation with you being FIRM and DIRECT about her stopping the affair immediately.None of this "validation" nonsense. She should not be be "validated" for acting like an alley cat in heat. Validating that behavior is NOT IN HER BEST INTEREST and only serves to ENABLE HER. Rather, she needs to know that there will be no validation for adultery.

If she won't end her affair immediately and agree to end contact for life, I would expose her affair to her family, your family, the OM's family, employer if a workplace affair, close friends, pastor, etc. Exposure is like chemotherapy to cancer, so it is in all of your best interest to expose this affair.

And lastly, please understand that a wayward is identical to a falling down drunk and treat her accordingly. Most waywards threaten divorce, rewrite history, rationalize, lie, spin, etc. It is an EXPECTATION. But you can't take her any more seriously than you would a falling down drunk. Rather, focus on getting the BOOZE away from her so she can come to her senses.

sorry you are here, hooloovoo. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

In most affairs, one spouse wants to end it. That is the RULE, rather than the exception. It matters not a whit. What the wayward wants while in the throes of an addictive affair changes dramatically once the affair is over. So, the goal of the BS is cause as much conflict as possible in the affair.

SAA will help you understand the dynamics of an affair and how to use that information to save your marriage.