Yes, I can do it. I have wavered, wondered if it was worth fighting for and I've decided it is. I have avoided conflict most of our relationship, which is a lot of why we are where we are, but it's time to take a stand.


I am almost positive that she will not end it. I envision telling her she needs to end it, and her just laughing and saying no, I won't do that, I already told you we're over...

So I do not want to try and make an effort to show that I am listening and understand what she is telling me? Skip that? I mean, I don't just want to attack her. I don't want to succumb to my anger and say hurtful things. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do.

HLV,

Glad you understand about taking blame. Keep your head on that when you confront her.

When you talk to her, you have to KNOW what you want.

If that entails keeping the marriage, then what you focus on is that you want to keep the marriage together.

If she starts babbling about how to go about divorcing, your only response to any talk of separation, divorce, exploring options toward divorce, etc., is the mantra: "I don't do divorce. I talk marriage. I will only talk about things that will enhance our future together with our children."


You need to read everything on this website as soon as possible about lovebusting, honesty, and Plan A. Read fast - you need to be in Plan A by the time she gets home. She needs to see you as a more attractive alternative than the OM.

Do not lovebust. But do not enable her affair, either. That means you do not be a doormat, but you don't have to be nasty to her when she spouts off her garbage - and she will - about how you "never" met her needs, you "never" were a good husband, you "always" did this, you "never" did that, she "never" was happy, and she loves you but she's not in love with you, and she isn't sure what she wants to do but wants to hang around and see.

You should insist that she write a letter of NO CONTACT to the other man, and give it to you to send to him. She should never talk to him again, and neither should you. Forever, sorry, that means for life. He is not your friend or hers. She will try to bargain - "he's my friend, I need to tell him good-bye, I need closure" - you tell her that he is not a friend to the marriage or the family, and that she needs to attend to her marriage and family first. They need her, and that your expectation is that the no contact letter will be the closure for everyone.

Then tell her that you have ordered a book - Surviving an Affair - that has information that you need to read together. As a married couple who want to save the marriage, who want to move forward, and who love one another enough to work through the hardest thing to hit a marriage and friendship that could ever happen.

And mean it. Order the book right now, online.

Get His Needs, Her Needs, while you are at it. I also liked Phil McGraw's "Relationship Rescue" which really focused on self-improvement, and it was written with guys in mind.

Tell her that you love her, want her, and want the family to succeed. Tell her that you have exposed the affair to the family and friends so that they can help and support you both through this difficult time, so that they can know that the success of the marriage is the very primary focus of your heart.

When you expose, be sure to tell your family and friends the very same thing - that you are telling them because you love her, need their help to love and support the family through this difficult time, and that the unity of and successful recovery of the family is the single goal in your heart.

The entire time you confront her, you will be anxious, worried, pained, angry, and upset. While you do this, your instincts will be to follow those moods. I have a body language thread that can really make this whole confrontation thing go down very counter-intuitively - and change the whole mood from anxiety to a lot more loving. It might make the difference for you. I will bump it for you. Try to set up the talk with her using the conversational tips I have in the thread. It certainly would make the talk you have with her change from confrontation to intimate, and would likely make it far more likely to mirror a loving talk rather than an argumentative one. The emotions, however, are going to be VERY strong, and still painful.

Try throughout to keep yourself focused on the idea that this is someone you LOVE, not the enemy.

That will keep you from lovebusting.

I know others will have more advice. I will bump the body language thread for you. Look at the part where I talk about how people should face each other, not have things between them, and how to listen during conversations. It isn't specific to the confrontation issue, but you should try the position during the confrontation to limit the amount of aggressive and fearful body language you would be likely to emit during such a conversation, and increase the loving language instead. It will certainly take her off guard, as her expectation of d-day is a huge, fit-throwing drama fest. I don't know that it will work, but your style seems like that is what you want to do. I hope this helps.

SB

Just think, if you had been doing this all along, there would likely not be an affair because the only way a spouse can have an affair is to carry on a secret second life. This is why Dr. Harley advocates snooping. It is a virtue in the sense that it protects a marriage from affairs and detects ongoing affairs.
I am glad you have come to this realization. As you can see, conflict avoidance only causes more conflict. Most importantly, women do not respect men they can run over and our LOVE is contingent upon the respect we feel.

Oh yes, she will forgive you. Every betrayed spouse has this fear and it never comes to pass. Exposure is simply the most powerful weapon you have your disposal, you can’t afford to NOT use it if you want to save your marriage. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so keeping their dirty little secret for them only helps the affair. It is much less likely to die off without exposure because secrecy fuels the affair.

When she is recovered, she will forgive you. However, if you don’t expose, there likely WON’T be a recovery, because there won’t be a marriage. Your greatest fear should be of the affair, not her temporary anger at exposure. It will survive temporary anger, it won’t survive an ongoing affair.

Kicking her out would be a BAD IDEA at this time. You may have to get a legal separation in the future, but first try to kill this affair by exposing it and causing as much conflict as possible, while you do your best to demonstrate to her that you would be willing to do what it takes to meet her needs if she ends her affair.

And one last very important point. If your W tells you she wants a divorce – many say this but never follow through – let her know you will NOT cooperate. Let her know you will counter sue for adultery, full custody, no alimony and full possession of the house and contents. She must understand that it will BE VERY DIFFICULT to divorce you.

An “amicable” divorce with you as her “friend” will only fuel her FANTASIES and ENCOURAGE her to pursue her affair.
How old are your kids?

Post deleted by bluemonkey

Lying to them is a very bad idea. Kids can deal with the truth, they cannot deal with lies. If they are not told the truth and given some moral guidance, they will imagine the worst and grow up morally confused. They know something is going on.

I would suggest telling them the truth and explaining to them why adultery is wrong. Tell them that their mother is not a bad person but that she is very mixed up right now. These kids are plenty old enough to understand what is going on.

Dr. Harley routinely recommends telling the kids and has for the past 35 years.

How very sad. Where is their bio father? Is he very involved with them? How did her last marriage end? Is this her first affair?

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

hooloo, why do any of that? I would suggest you confront her Sunday when she gets back and ask her to stop her affair. If she doesn't, then expose the affair. You don't need her admission to know the truth. You know full well what is going on here.

In the meantime, don't plan on going anywhere next weekend and ask her to stay home with you instead of carrying on her affair.

Is this her first affair?

I would assume this is her first affair. There is no other time during our marriage that she has spent so much time traveling (I think prior to 3 months ago she went out of town without me twice. This is also the first time she has ever refused any attempts I made at affection or improving our marriage.

Or hire a PI, and get it all in one manilla envelope. If I had it to do over, that's what I would have done. Waywards will still deny when you catch them in the act. Doing the PI work yourself lends to getting caught. Then the A goes deeper underground.

Think about it...

I wouldn't ask her anything. Why play a cat and mouse game? TELL HER you know about the affair and ask her for an explanation. You don't need to ask about what you already know. You know she is having an affair, there is no need to ask a question you already know the answer to.


This tells me that she already has your permission to commit adultery. So if she tells you she just slept with this guy "for fun," it is a rationalization for adultery? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Why in the world is adultery perfectly acceptable to you if it is the same sex? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

It seems to me you have set a bizarre standard here that can easily be applied to this affair.

So, the answer to my question is NO, this is not the first affair. This is her 2nd affair that you know of and you CONDONED the last one. If she has any snap at all, she will use your reaction to the last affair to justify the current one.

This is bizzare. I'm just shaking my head.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

How can anything you do make anything worse? YOUR WIFE IS SCREWING ANOTHER MAN.

Ok ok, yes, I gotta try something and you're right, can't get much worse than it is. I guess the issue for me is that there are several ways I can approach this, and which one might give me the best odds is pretty much a crap shoot at this point... Basically I don't want to do the wrong thing and screw up whatever shot I have.

You keep putting all your energy into catching her...she is ALREADY caught. You know she is involved. You are wasting time and avoiding the real work. Regardless of whatever new information you will find, she is goimg to deny it. Some have been caught in the act and still deny. She will also put all the blame on you. Doesn't matter, they all do it and your insistence on finding more information will not change that.

You need to put your energy into saving your marriage and protecting the innocent children who have through enough already.

You are getting tremendous advise from some of the best. You need to follow it.

Realize that you are with "marriage building geeks" here. Stop messing around and get to work.

Yes, I've gotten a lot of good advice. I guess the issue is that the advice seems split between just going ahead and confronting her based on what I have or waiting for more.

HLV

Couple of questions - During this weekend - did you ever contact her by phone? Did she ever take any time to have a chat with the kids? If there has been no contact - why did you allow this to happen? You are the husband and father of the household.

Me thinks you are over analysing the situation. There will be enough time later while in R or D to analyse ad naseum. Get a plan going - Confront, expose to others of the situation and protect your finances.

Good grief - do not use the next weekend to setup another meeting of the adulterers for proof.

Why avoid conflict. You are being disrespected and need to stand up and be counted. No one deserves to have to live a life like your situation.

In her fatansy - she has a good friend (you) taking care of her bills and her children while she goes on romance trips with her new love. This is happening while you are concerned that she will get upset and detach if you confront.

=reality needs to collide with this fantasy world. If not for your sake - for the sake of the children. Do you want the OM to replace you as the children's father? I can assure you - in her foggy world that would be a perfect scenario.

Good luck - my humble advice is read up on this site, take control and get a plan worked out today. Confront and expose as soon as possible - dont wait any more than necessary. You need to clear your fog - its been going too long and you need to take control. You will feel a lot better acting than reacting. Its time to shake the fence.