So if I just tell her I know, then drop it and refuse to discuss it further, then what? Do I just go about my life, trying my best not to LV and meeting her needs, ignoring the whole affair?

See what she says. But she will most likely deny everything. So far she has probably told less than a hundred lies to you. My ex told me thousands. And the constant lying is what makes you lose respect and not want to work on the marriage.

Tell her you know, and what is her next plan? If she says divorce, let her know that you don't do divorce. Let her worry about things for a bit.

Continue to monitor her.

HLV, so sorry you are going through this. I have been reading your thread off and on all day. Frankly, I am about to pull my hair out. I know you want some sound, actionable advice but it seems from what you have been saying is that it's like there is more than one path to you which just makes it hard to decide what to do.

From one techie type to another, let me tell you, there is no black and white answer here. However, there is a road you can go down, and that is to follow the very good advice you are getting here. For what it's worth, here is what I would do if I were you.

Gather the information that is available to you RIGHT NOW. This includes:
- checking the nursing home to see if she called
- checking the DC hotel to see who was playing there
- check the OC hotel to see if there really was a "jazz trio" playing there (rofl at the biker in there enjoying the jazz, what a stereotype/fish out of water!)
- check the OC hotel to see if she was really there, tell them you and your wife had been there and left your watch in the room and could they check for it...what? Nobody by that name was there?
- check her credit cards, bank accounts, etc. if possible, where was she spending money at what times? Rifle through her purse and car if necessary.

I agree too that looking her right in the eye and saying that you know she is having an affair, and that there is no denying it, and she can just guess how you know. Saying she was "seen in the DC club" is gold. Let her think you had her followed and watch the sweat start breaking out on her forehead.

I also agree that you being strong and taking decisive action is key here, while doing the best plan A you can. Tell her in no uncertain terms that she is your wife, you love her, and that you are going to fight for her and that is what it is all about, so get used to it. She needs to dump that jerk permanently and you are making saving your marriage your mission in life.

Decisive action. Tell her you know and keep snooping, keep plan A'ing. Kill the affair and be her safe haven. These folks here know what to do and can give you great advice, please keep posting.

What about telling her someone you know from your home area saw her? A neighbor, coworker, or something like that. Surely she isn't the only person who traveled over the weekend.

This will make her a bit paranoid as to "who knows".

OK...so here's the thing.

She's going to go deeper underground with her affair now. Spying is going to be even more difficult, because now she knows that you suspect something. That's why you either confront her face to face and stand your ground, OR you gather your evidence. Doing both like you just did is going to make you look like a madman, and its going to seriously limit your effectiveness.

You need to either go 'toe to toe' with her, and not back down about the affair...don't tell her how you know, simply tell her point blank you KNOW. Don't let her try to wiggle her way out...don't let her deflect like she's doing. OR...back down, tell her nothing more, and try to gather your information.

Personally, you have more than enough to expose with at this point. You dont have to give anyone you expose to your evidence...again...you KNOW what's going on.

I think you do need to continue to gather evidence to further your battle plan tho...what do you know about OM?

Ok folks, here's an update and a wrench in the works...

Easy answer...you do both. That is Plan A!

Next, you normalize life with her with Plan A in full force.

In addition, you hire a PI next time she's "going out" either with the girls, or back to see grandmother, whatever the next time is she is going to be "out" alone.

Confirm the affair, and get the evidence.

Those are your marching orders <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Edited to add: Waffling between the A and the life they had prior to the affair is typical. Confusion is the state in which a WS lives. SD

Exactly -- you do both.

Be the man she wants. And continue watching your back.

She is maintaining her status as a fence squatting cake eater. She knows you are on to her and she has limited resources to leave the marriage.

However, maybe you have a chance to really get a good solid Plan A under way.

Do not reveil how you get your intel and expect her to get more cautious now. Keep gathering your proof, protect yourself and get a killer Plan A going.

Okay...


Good for her! And yes, I do mean that sarcastically.


Not by me. I think she did a good job of thickening the smokescreen.


I don't doubt it. You've already said that she knows you've snooped. My W isn't all that computer saavy, but several times after d-day she deliberately "planted" things in her emails 2 RM 2 see if I was reading. I'd bet large sums of other peoples' money that this is a ruse.


Good. Has she explained that one away?


Yep, your W is clever. She's got you doubting yourself.


Yep, she's got you doubting even this.


Read about conflict, particularly in the context of the stages of a marriage. It's GOOD 2 get her from a position of withdrawal 2 one of conflict. The next stage (after a healthy period of healthy conflict) is the restoration of intimacy.


These are excuses and blame-shifts from a WS. She doesn't know what "emotional availability" even means. But you can learn for yourself (and my favorite part is the part about the difference between secrecy and privacy):

Are you emotionally available?


This was good. She needs 2 hit rock bottom herself. And when/if she does, she'll leave a smoking hole in the ground. But you need 2 let her do that, 2.


You did good. The correct response 2 these kinds of blame-shift rants from her, of course, are like: "I'm sorry you feel that way. I feel differently." You didn't put her in this si2ation, however. She did.


I don't think this is entirely sincere, either. It is GOOD that she feels conflicted. She's doing wrong! She won't stop doing wrong, either, until she figures out for herself that it is her poor choices that give her the heartburn. Not YOU.


Correction: YOU put yourself in predicaments. Nobody and nothing else does. It is YOUR choice. Don't make it any tougher than it has 2 be.


This is why you're in a predicament. Period.


Ya think? I wonder what it will take for her 2 convince you that nothing did? Or that you're losing your mind? Hm?


Wait a minute. It's good 2 feel like you have a chance, but redeem yourself? For what? Snooping? Suspecting? Do NOT underrate in2ition. Men are particularly famous for not listening 2 their own hunches when they find evidence that their wives are unfaithful. Go ahead, ask me!


That's always been the case. But remember, telling the truth is NOT lovebusting. Particularly, being honest about how you feel in this si2ation (read the definition in that link I posted).


You can never be more stuck than you allow yourself 2 be. Don't forget that. You are in control.


For now, you do both. But I would add something - call the Harleys, right now. Get a session for yourself. They'll know how 2 get your W 2 participate (and this is the thing I like most about coaching versus counseling - they'll work with you individually, as needed, or as a couple). They'll give you homework, so be prepared!


That's now. The other stuff will likely come and go as well. You're just getting on the roller coaster. Fasten your seat belts!


First, don't over analyze it. 2nd, it's probably true - you helped foster some confusion in her thinking. That's GOOD. 3rd, she's probably snowed you 2 some degree.


She's trying 2 guilt you, but there is a such thing as "detachment with love." That's what you need. But it doesn't mean withdrawing your affection, it means separating yourself emotionally from her drama. You need 2 get yourself in an emotional state where what she does next (good or bad) doesn't throw you for a loop, so you can respond rather than react.



Let it be her rock and hard place, then. You know what is right - fighting for your family and what you believe is morally right. Stand firmly for your principles.

-ol' 2long

Minor threadjack!

2long, you are in great form. Immensely enjoyed meeting you, and glad you had a safe and successful trip!

End threadjack!

reopen threadjack!

Hey SD! It was great meeting you, 2! Rest of the trip went well, except for a 2ple nights in a row where my so-tight-he-squeaks friend insisted on sleeping in truck stops. It was HOT, MUGGY, LOUD (thunderstorms and diesel engines running all night). We must have saved a few bucks, though! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

...loved that engineer thing you sent!

-EOT (End of Threadjack!)...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

HLV,

One of the more blantant lies in the email is this line:
"Then I carried it out so it wouldn't be
in your way"

This type of lie is told so that it makes the listener feel guilt about asking. It is couched within the sentence so as to make the event seem typical, and make the teller seem kindly. In reality, it is a jab at YOU - because you actually had the gall to ask and make her lie about what she was doing.

(I do linguistic analyses at work. Fun stuff...)

She might have seen a t-shirt with that slogan somewhere. Probably NOT at the place and time stated, as it does not fit, and when prefaced with "Seriously" in the particular syntactic context presented, likely a lie. The same goes for the use of the word "frankly" when she talks of the color of the negligee. She is attempting to make the sentence appear honest, when it is not.

Two self-deprecating notes ("as usual I overpacked" and "blonde moment") are meant as an attempt to feign taking blame for what she is trying to pass off to you as silly mistakes. This is a common tactic for liars. These are not silly mistakes, they were purposeful events, now being passed off as silly mistakes. Both lies.


The email is a lie. The only part that has some possible truth is that she saw some bikers in the hotel bar she went to.

Hope this helps.

SB

Well, expect her to go visiting her Grandma again.

You can do Plan A, but it includes exposure. So I would continue checking carefully.

HLV,

Don't quit spying. As Reagan said,

"Trust but verify."

In her case, don't even trust.

HVL... you doing ok?

No, not really <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So basically, you're not following any of the marriagebuilders plans or advice? You're going to do this 'your way', right?

I don't know what I'm going to do. Right now, I'm trying to hold myself together and keep from sinking into depression. That's my plan right now. I'm worn down. I'm tired. I'm drained. I'm not giving up but I need a break. I'm going out of town this weekend to try and refresh. I'll have to asses after that.

The correct response from you would be something like:

"I'm not going anywhere. I want us 2 be 2gether and focus on our marriage and family. I hope you want the same."


In spite of a lot of the wording you'll see here, you don't change. Your perspectives can change, though, and very definitely will after infidelity. Your W is focusing on these things that easily "guilt" you. Do not engage her in such conversations!


Yes, the odds are very much against you remaining 2gether as a couple so long as you follow her reasoning. Whether or not you "change" is none of her damned business! She screws herself over, and nobody else, by waiting around for you 2 become something she "expects" you 2 be, rather than enjoying and nur2ring who you really are.


You WANT her 2 be conflicted!


Wiskey Tango Foxtrot?


Now I'm upset. Tell your dad the whole truth (and everybody else, for that matter). Don't threaten, just DO IT because it's right.



And if she has nothing 2 be ashamed of, this won't affect her! (and they won't blame her either).


WRONG!!! You DID help the cause. Remember the bit about 'when the WS gets angry at something you do, it means you've done something RIGHT!"?


Here is one of those little hints that something is amiss. Why is it any of her business how you spend the time you agreed was yours? so long as you didn't lie 2 her? This reveals her selfishness.


Ultimately, that may be the right thing for you 2 do. But you've got a lot more pain 2 slog through before you can make a choice like that with a clear conscience.


Welcome 2 the early post d-day blues! Get a prescription for anti-depressants, if you feel you need 2.


Who's your counseling with?


She might just bring him home 2 meet the kids.


How did that go? Beware of smokescreens. My W did that kind of thing for several months after d-day, but she didn't give up contact with RM the whole time.


Don't make any changes, except in your knowledge and perspective. You can't become someone else.



You can't control her resentment. Only she can. You can only take steps 2 avoid doing things that might trigger it in her. But realize, right now, that while she's a WS, ANYTHING she wants 2 use as justification for resenting you is fair game, and it won't make any sense what those things are. They're really excuses and blame-shifts 2 throw you off the affair trail.


You do need 2 believe in yourself. And you need 2 realize that it isn't your lack of changes that's causing the distance between you 2, it's her choice 2 have an affair!


I'm going 2 go throw up now. She's got you doubting your own sanity. Cut this self-immolation crap out! Right now! Be a man and fight for your family!!!


You call that a pep talk?


Then just give up. Look, you just about have the bull by the horns, but you keep telling this bull what you know, what you're going 2 do, and asking the bull's permission 2 grab its horns!

I gotta go,
-ol' 2long