Schoolbus,
Thanks for your reply. I have started doing that, though I been doing it without thinking. And you are right, he is resistant to it, if I move in too aggressively he would pull back from me. So it's almost like a tag game, I sneak in a hand on his arm, when we hug, I put my hand on his stomach, then I move back. I use to linger and he would say I was "pressuring" him. Now I don't look at him like he needs to return the gestures. Is that right thing to do?

Also how do you stop thinking things like the last time he was intimate, it was w/OW? Sometimes it makes my skin crawl and sick to my stomach. I've read Joseph's letter, it is so right on. Crumbs....that's exactly how I feel.

It is getting harder each day without progression on his part. I feel like we are room mates/buddies. He's never been overtly aggressive in this area, I've always been the one to make the "intimate" moves. Maybe that's part of the problem, I don't give him a chance to "chase" me, but what if he really just not interested anymore?

We have been talking more lately, though he still says he cares for her and he's worried about her b/c she doesn't have the support and if she does anything bad, he would feel responsible. He says how he really liked her kids, and how he helped her with her problems (drinking/depression meds/stress). Because I'm not "needy" like she is, he's not as worried about me.

He says there is "something" about her, what that "something" is, he can't put into words. He said "It's like he's addicted to her and her to him" and "how do you stop caring about someone just like that? Even before the EA and PA, they really were friends." What do you say to that? Anything I say would make me sound uncaring and cold (everything she isn't). So I just nod and gag in private!

Everyday brings conflicting feelings, I have successfully stopped LBing. I am very suspious of him, though I can't find evidence of contact. I read what you wrote about talking to OW. I've been thinking of doing that also, she was a friend of mine and if she's not had the support from anyone, she may welcome a "friend". What was some the method you use to talk w/OW?

My next question is how do I know when he's lying? He has a habit of chuckling when he's not telling the truth, though it's not consistent. I heard once (CSI?) that when a person is not telling the truth they look away and to the left(?), is that correct?

Tami,

He's about two months out from d-day, and I'm not sure how long they have gone no contact. So there is still the withdrawal issue for him. They were involved for a long time, at least a year EA, and then PA almost a year. It will take awhile for him to get her out of his system. He had an addiction.

The thing is that you need to remember that he had a fantasy about her. It was FANTASY. He will ultimately realize that when he comes out of the fog.

When I talked to the OW in my case she was very honest. I don't know about the OW in your case. My H's OW is a person who does not love many people - there was no emotional attachment between the two of them. It was a sexual affair without strings - they basically used each other as sexual playthings and excitement of the chase, nothing more. It was a game to them, something exciting, forbidden, and for her, something she does all the time. Her husband knows she does it, and lives with it. My husband was into porn and alcohol and was just

an idiot.

Anyway, when I talked with her, I called her and told her what I was feeling. I laid it out on the table, and told her how her behavior had affected me and my life. She began to cry. She was sobbing hysterically at one point, crying, "no,no,no,no". I talked to her three times on the phone. At one point, I told her I thought I was going to divorce him. She actually tried to talk me out of it, because she said he was a good man who did a very stupid thing, and that she was not worth worrying about. That this whole episode had gotten her to thinking about herself and her life.

I certainly hope so, but I doubt it.



Regarding the lying - people give off many body language indicators of lying. It depends on the dominant hemisphere of language, so I cannot tell you which direction he will look when he lies, sorry. I would need to be able to determine his dominance. MOST folks are left hemisphere language dominant. However, there is a small percentage of the population who are right hemisphere dominant for language. Those people would be left-handed; Not all left handed people are right hemisphere language dominant. There is actually only a percentage of those who are.

As far as if they look to the left or right, I believe that to be idiosyncratic, personally. While they might say it is based on dominant hemisphere control and the locus of control for lying resulting in looking this particular direction, I would say the research isn't quite strong enough yet. There are other variables, such as a person's dominant use of hemisphere to consider. For example if a person is a holistic, right hemisphere dominant thinker (although left dominant for language), he might look right while lying because his thought patterns are assisted that way. So, not everybody follows the rules.

But the good news is, you already know when he's lying. You sense it. Your instinct tells you when it doesn't "feel" right - you already have a built-in sensor system for lies.

Some cues are that he will make fleeting eye contact, not steady. He will look past you, not at you. He will talk more rapidly. He will offer way too much information without you asking - throwing in "afterthoughts" and odd little details, or way too little, despite your request for details.

And when you do go back and ask about the same thing again, "new" information that he "forgot" gets thrown in or "remembered" suddenly. Or, he will bring the subject up again, seemingly at random, and he will offer some little tidbit to clean up a detail. This is a telltale sign, by the way. Often to cover an important missed track.

SB,

Thanks again for your reply. I find human nature very fascinating, even while in the middle of going through this crap. I believe that HE thinks he's done NC. But they do on occasion work together. I know when I run into her unexpectedly it throws me into a panic, I can't imagine that he's able to even see her w/o feeling all those "fuzzy" feelings. I even broke out in hives later that evening.

I do think that he's not told me everything, I can't shake the feeling that there's more. Though I do feel that she's the one pursuing him. She knows he feels guilty about "leaving" her alone, so she uses her weakness to get to him. He's put himself as her knight and she's his damsel in distress.

He is left handed, but it sounds like it's a hit or miss. Unless you went to school to study this, it would be difficult for a layman to figure it out.

Though the eye contact part is very helpful. I have noticed that he rarely able to look at me directly and if he does it is fleeting. At first I thought it was because he was feeling "bad", but he avoids looking at me even if we talk about the weather.

He is good about not answering any questions directly. It usually take me asking several times the same questions before he gives me a straight answer. Like last night, after I ran into the OW (I made eye contact w/her--she didn't look away--she smiled at me!)I asked if they were done. He said what do you mean? I said "ARE YOU DONE W/HER?" He said he's already told me that he is. I asked if he's been in contact with her. He said that they worked together earlier in the week (he did call and tell me) and for about an hour tonight. Then he said that I was "freaking" out. Which is what he always says when he doesn't want to get into in. I asked him those questions calmly and in a steady tone.

What I don't understand is....if you have already been caught, your spouse is hurting, why continue the charade? I don't get the sneaking around now. I'm sure it was exciting, new and mind blowing b4 discovery, but now it's just cruel.

I just finish reading "Torn Asunder"--there's a chapter in there regarding WH who has disclosed the A, but unwilling to either end it emotionally or discuss it. It said that,basically to bring out the big guns (not ones w/bullets). WH doesn't understand what the BS is going thru so he/she can't know the damage they have caused to BS. So it says to tell WS a story putting the WS in the BS place, make the story brutal and very graphic. The key is to have the WS take a walk in the BS shoes. What do you think? It seems like there's a chance of it backfiring. My H had at one point accused me of having an A w/my friend Helen. I couldn't stop laughing, even in my pretend A I couldn't get a man to be interested! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I am going to talk w/him more about where we are at this stage in the game. I will watch his body language. I just wish he would just get a spine and come clean!

As far as talking to the OW, I still very tempted. Though I don't think she will be as honest as yours was. Last time I talked to her. She said "For what's it's worth I'm sorry for what happened. It wasn't planned, it just happened and neither of us knew how to stop it. We really were just friends before this happened. Now, not only have I lost my family, I've also lost a good friend (him or me?). I can never compare to you. You are the type of person I always wanted to be." Sorry,I had a moment of nausea. I sure this the type of crap she lay on H.

She's a wolf in sheep clothing and he's the idiot that chases after her.

Thanks again. I find your knowledge in this very helpful, but I'm sure it's very draining for you.

Take care,
Tami

Tami,

I don't find it draining at all. It's what I do. I think about thinking - strange job, I know. But that's what I do to get money......it's really hard to explain to other people! Especially when I try to explain to them that I try to TEACH people HOW to think. Now that part gets tricky - explaining it is hard enough, doing it is something else entirely.

I actually had a kid, for the very first time in my career, figure out what I was doing the other day. He looked at me and said, "How do you do this?" I said, "What?". He said, "How do you get into my brain like that and train me to do things? I even do it when I'm sleeping, and I wake up and do things differently!"

I was floored. He is 8 years old, and he is the first person who has ever been actually aware of the function of my job and has been able to so succinctly state it. I really was thrilled, though, because what I was doing had to be working.

I digress.

Have you ever given your husband a copy of Joseph's Letter?

He seems to have no comprehension of your side of things whatsoever. He is still very lost within his own world, and the constant contact with OW keeps him there.

Has he begun to look for other work? That would seem like a very important step.

Try to meet his need to be needed. It seems like he wants to feel necessary, to be a hero. Go to him when you are feeling needy, and let him help you. Lean on him, and ask for his support. He needs to see this hurt, and you need to start to show it to him sometimes.

Also, there has to be some stick to your Plan A - be sure that you are balancing things.

SB