My HB had an emotional affair with one of his co-workers in 12/27/2000. I found out by calling him and his phone automatically answered. I then heard them kissing and talking. I taped phone conversations and found out that all they did was kiss, thank God! My 1st baby was due in a week, so we worked it out. He was able to transfer to another job site. We then had baby #2 the same way as #1 with infertility assistance.

The second emotional affair was at the new job site sometime in 2004. It was with a co-worker who was stationed on base temporarily. She was then sent back to her home base in SC. He continued to talk to her day in and day out. I thought something was up and found her phone # on his cell phone bill. They talked many many times a day. I sent a text to her from his phone. To make a long story short, she ended up leaving a voice mail on his phone and at the end said "I love you". I confronted him and her and they ended it. I stayed because I was due with my third baby -conceived naturally (BIG SURPRISE)! Being that she lived in a different state, I felt no big threat. I do however wonder how it all got started and can't shake it. He states they were just good friends and exchanged numbers when she went back to SC.

The third emotional affair was 06/15/2006. We got in a huge argument. When he came home very late that night, I checked his phone. I saw that he had sent text to a girl that was with the group he was hanging out with that night. He bascially was swooning her in the text. Long story short, I played it cool and taped their conversations and found out only kissing was involved. This went on for a week. I did have to hear again him kissing another woman on the tape, which was horrible. That is as far as it went. They set up a date and I followed them. I caught her in the car with him. Confronted them both (it was ugly!). He couldn't deny anything this time. He did deny that he kissed her, but I had proof. He begged and cried for me to stay. I was so ready to go.

He would raise his voice in front of the children and they could feel the tension in the house. They started acting out and by that I felt guilty for leaving and not working it out. So, I stayed. We REALLY layed out all our emotions and were very honest with one another, so I thought this would be it.


A few weeks later we had to go on vacation with all my family. This was already booked a year ago. We had to act as though every thing was peachy keen, but I did not want to go! Well, we had sex and I got pregnant (I was on birth control)! I was due July 10, 2007.


Emotional affair #4. Yes, another one. I thought we were done with this, I am so sick for staying around for this. In June 2007 he was acting funny again. So, I check his cell phone records and see a consistent phone #. Sure enough he was talking to the girl 5 to 10 times a day. He was texting her too. It started 6/9 and the records went to 6/15. So, I had to wait until 7/15 to verify that the calls were continuing. Meanwhile, I had to act like everything was ok, so I wouldn't blow my cover. The anguish I had while having to give birth not knowing what was going on with him-her was horrible. Long story short...they met as a sales pitch. A client introduced her to him because she was selling lots. He claims he wanted it to be a surprise (constructing houses on the lots and selling them), so he deleted EVERY call they made to one another and EVERY text. I said I new the amount of calls made, etc. He then added that they hit it off and just started talking as friends. They spoke so many times a day that it disgusts me. I am so sick of this. If this would have went on longer it possibly could have lead to something more. She also sent him a picture of herself and her friends with the excuse of "set my girls up with your friends". I told him that this was just an excuse for her to show him how she was looking that night, but he doesn't believe me. She sent a picture of her and her husband (whom she caught in bed with HER best friend) on their motorcycles too. Of course I never seen these pictures, but was told this is what was sent. I called her without him knowing and she said the same story. He claimed all he did was praise me when I came up. She said he claimed we had problems. I just know there had to be major flirting in the phone conversations. BTW she lives over and hour away in another state.

Affair #1,2, and 4 started with the females being in distress over their husbands or boyfriend and my husband would be the "counselor" for them. That really disgusts me too. My husband LOVES to talk and is a GREAT listner and advisor. This DRAWS the women in. I just don't know what to do. I am disgusted that he would do this after ALL he promised after #3 affair. Now here I am with SO MUCH resentment built up towards him. He is such a good husband in ALL other ways and a MARVELOUS father. But his downfall is talking to these women. I told him that just talking to a woman will lead to her hanging on every word he says and falling for him. He agreed, but did it again! I am so angry now. I feel a HUGE distance between us. He is doing all he can to make things right, but I am on the defense. I don't want to be here for affair #5. This is ridiculous. How could he hurt my heart like this? He knew if I found out about #4 I would lose it. That is why he deleted every call. He claims they were innocently talking, but he would text her when around his friends (obviously so they wouldn't hear what he was saying). AND they had all day phone calls. OR he would "use" the bathroom and text her late at night a few times.

Now I stand here with 4 beautiful children, no money, no where to go, and no job. I have been putting resumes at there with affair #3 and now with affair #4, but no one calls. I am a stay at home mom. I don't want to put my children in daycare, espeically my newborn. These are the years with them I want to be around for constantly with all of their firsts. They are so young 6, 4, 2, and 2 mths. On the other hand, I don't want to be hurt anymore and lied to. I have admitted that I have played apart in the first 3 affairs by not being there for his emotional/recrectional needs. But affair #4 came from no where. We were not having any obvious problems. However, I complained about being lonely in June because he was working long hours. He was stressed from the hours and lack of money. I am tired of the anger and resentment inside of me. My brick wall is stacked even higher this time with him. Sorry so long. Any input will help.

Sorry you have been through all this. Sounds like your H has the KISA syndrome (knight in shining armor) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> .

Many do. The women they talk to are vulnerable or clever at spotting a KISA. Either way, they are prime for an A. The telling factor is that he is nice to them but has t/b mean to you. Yes, deceit to pursue to A requires he develop a lying forked tongue. OW in my case initially said the WS said nice things about me. Funny, then she later couldn't say anything but evil lies about me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> That is necessary for the OP and WS to justify their A.

Ok, go read SAA and HNHN, both are by Dr. Harley. Take the EN questionnaire from the questionnaire section above. Both of you take it, then call Steve H. You H has a problem HE needs to fix. In the meantime, those books will teach you how t/d a good plan A which will benefit you for life and him ONLY if he comes around.

take care,
L.

You are so correct. He does have the KISA syndrome. I have always said that even BEFORE the affairs. He has this syndrome with all family members and close friends. He does pick and choose who to use the syndrome on, but everyone knows he is there for it and calls on him.

I am currently reading HNHN. My HB actually purchased it and brought it home a few days ago. Although, he has not cracked it open yet. The EN questionnaire is in there too. I have thought about taking it, but I have a problem. I can do all this and patch things up in different areas, but WHAT about the resentment and memories. I can't even kiss him without the affairs popping into my mind. That is awful. We bascially skip on the kissing when we are intimate because HE knows it reminds me of them too. I LOVE kissing and this is a big damper especially for foreplay.

I know I can only be the one to decide to move on or stay. I am just so scared. What if I move on and want to come back? Then if I come back, I will wonder what he did while I was gone. I am darned if I do and darned if I don't. I just wish I could wipe my mind from the hurt and be happy with him again. He was supposed to be MY KISA.

Thanks for responding so fast, I needed to hear from someone.

Four young children, a wandering husband, a stay at home Mom...

Sounds familiar.

The problem with the situation is that you cannot practically go to Plan B, so Plan A doesn't work. He's taking you for granted.

My IC said to me, "You don't want to be in a marriage in which part of your job is to keep him from having another affair."

This is not MB advice. It is contrary to MB advice. It is my own plan, and all I can say is that I am not wasting effort on trying to reform him.

Shut him down. No intimacy. Follow the Policy of Joint Agreement. Don't do anything which is negative for you or him. You degrade yourself by having sex with a man you cannot be comfortable kissing.

He needs to make the effort to make your comfortable that he is faithful. That's his job, not yours. He needs to demonstrate a commitment to care, which he has not. Put the ball in his court. Be civil. Be courteous. Don't be intimate. He has a lot to prove to you.

Cherishing

Cherishing...that really was an eye opener with your statement of not degrading myself. We have not been intimate since 09/07, so that is not an issue right now. I will look up the Policy of Joint Agreement and check it out.

How can he deomonstrate commitment and care if he keeps repeating this? I am so scared #5 will happen.

Pooh,

It will happen if he faces no consequences. This site will give you tools to identify where the problems lie. It will also help you to identify your boundaries (what you are willing to put up with) and maintain them.

Unless he does some big time self exploration, he will continue to behave with entitlement, selfishness and self gratification at your expense. He does not know how to protect you or your M. He must learn.You cannot be the gate keeper.

You are not responsible for his behavior. He is. Are you going to spend the rest of your life trying to uncover all these EAs and PAs?

You don't need to be concerned about EA #5. It's probably already in the works. The EAs are a symptom. The problem is lack of care for you. He isn't following the Policy of Joint Agreement.

He is demonstrating lack of care and lack of commitment by what he does away from you, but what is he doing right in front of you? Focus on that.

What you can do is show care for him. Think back to what complaints he has made about you that are specific. "You don't care about me" doesn't cut it. Think about complaints that have to do with specific behavior on your part. For example, do you tend to run late? Do you leave dishes out overnight?

Drop all attempts at intimacy and focus on showing care by changing one habit per month. Back off from him.

You have exposed. He didn't figure out this was his problem. Now all you can do is protect yourself emotionally and physically.

You asked how he can show care and commitment. That's for him to figure out. If his wife has disconnected from him emotionally and physically, he may decide to stop taking her for granted.

Cherishing

P.S. When my husband had his affair, the children were 8 months, 2 years, 5 years, and 7 years. I understand the agony. I understand the lack of ability to leave the situation. All you can do is remove yourself emotionally and physically. I didn't do that. I nearly had a nervous breakdown.

Cherishing....how long do I stay disconnected from him? What if my coldness towards him never goes away? That is not the type of relationship I want to be in. I know it takes time and someone suggested to give it six months to see how things go. But, like I said before, I am afraid of affair #5 starting.

If he has always been the knight in shining armor all his life, how can this be changed? I can't change his habits with being friendly with people. His WHOLE family is this way. They are always there to help EVERYONE out. Only this is getting him in trouble. I just don't know what to do. I can't change his personality in this area obviously. I can only expect him to not take it further then just being helpful with another female. But, this request is not being honored. I know what I need to do, but I am so sad to end it.

You mentioned your HB and how young your kids were with his OW. How long ago was that? Are you still with him? Was that the only affair?

It was his only affair. Our children are now ages 6 - 13.

You are trying to change his behavior when you can't. I did the same thing. My H also was very caring -- towards others. The care your H shows towards other women is lack of care to you.

You don't need to be cold towards him. Try very hard to meet his needs in ways that are not intimate, but don't be intimate -- emotionally or physically -- with him. Tell him that you want to work things out with him but need to be convinced that he isn't on to another woman. How will he do that? HE has to come up with a plan, not you. If you suggest anything, you'll be viewed as controlling, but I can say that it might be wise for him to come up with a plan where he is never alone with a woman. He can still be helpful to others, not just women when they are alone. He won't be kissing a woman if he is in a group. You need to keep quiet, though, and simply state that this isn't working for you, that you don't feel comfortable when he hasn't found a way to avoid getting into EAs with other women.

I am still with my H. Tonight he snapped at me when I interrupted him yelling at our 6 year old to finish her book when she was on W in the ABC book and I wanted her to finish. I was silent. I didn't argue. He let her finishe the book. He came later and apologized.

A friend of mine told me many years ago, "Don't run interference for his conscience." If you are running around trying to catch EAs, which I did as well, with two pre-schoolers in the car, well, then you aren't focused on caring for him and caring for your children. Also, you are turning this almost into a game for him. Will he get caught or not? End the game. It's not a game you want to be in. Back away from him until he is willing to work with you to make you comfortable.

What is the problem here is not his relationship with other women. It's his character of thoughtlessness and independent behavior. He wants to have fun even if it hurts you. It's immaturity. He can change his character by changing his behavior, but he has to want to do that. Right now, he seems to have no reason. You're still around, and you probably will be for the reasons mentioned above -- four young children, no job, a desire to have an intact home and no daycare for your children. He seems willing to stay with you. Let him.

Unreliable sexual fun with a female who is not the mother of his children may seem to be not so much fun if it means no intimacy with the wife and mother of children. If he can have both, he'll take both, obviously, since that is what he has done. If he can have only one, you'll see what he does.

Cherishing

You have such great advice. My HB has been making sexual comments to me and he patted me on my rear this morning. He just doesn't get it. I came out and told him Sept 2 that I was feeling very distant from him and that I am just really hardening up since this is the 4th time.

This morning he patted me on my rear again and I about lost it inside of myself. He is just being rude. He wants me to act like this one can be swept in the corner just like all the others. He went to give me a kiss goodbye and I backed up and said, No!. He said what? I told him he needed to stop showing me affection like that. He then ask why, what is going on? HELLO?????? Just arogant to what I am feeling even though I have explained it.

He leaves and calls me on the phone and asks what is going on. I review with him that I am still upset with #4 and that I don't want to be here for #5 to happen. He continues to say that I am making more out of affair #4 then what it was, that I am ridiculous, etc. I say if it were a FEW calls between him and the OW, then yes, I could swallow that. However, it wasnt just a few calls. It was day to day every other hour talk with the OW. I told him there was obviously more then friendship there. There was a NEED to talk to one another. I told him they talked as much as we talked in our dating years when we were teens pursuing one another. He again says I am mistaken and wrong. I told him I would like to separate for awhile. He can finish working on the house, put it up for sale, and we can see where it goes from there.

My head is just spinning. I feel so trapped.

From my perspective, you're obviously dealing with a serial cheater...which is a much more dangerous animal than one that does it one time and learns their lesson.

I don't have much advice on how to recover your marriage in this case. I think you're probably better suited by protecting yourself and your children from his carelessness and callousness.

Go see an attorney...see what your state's laws are on divorce. Start seperating.

Serial cheaters often never change their ways. Some do...many don't. Given how many times he's been caught and still does it, the only way I can see him truly changing would be if some horrible consequence came out of his cheating that he wasn't willing to live with, like losing you and the kids.

Good points Owl. But, am I doing more harm then good if I move out to "think about things"? That is my fear. On the other hand, I do want him to feel and SEE an acutal consequence of his behavior. The only consequence there can be is losing me and the kids in his life everyday. I have threatened him with consequences in the past. That obviously does not put any pressure on him. So, I guess I am answering myself that I DO need to move out so he can FEEL it.

I don't recommend that YOU move out. You're not the one committing the adultery, are you?

He needs to move out.

It's all about the consequences of HIS adulterous behavior.

Advice? Divorce this idito, womanizing, philandering loser and find someone that will respect you, your marriage and your children.

When I metioned wanting to leave, he actually suggested that he leave. He said this would be easier since I would obviously have more stuff to move.

I am the one who said NO WAY because he is self-employed and works out of this house and has employees that come and go. Also, we moved in our house while it was still under contruction. So, alot needs to be done in the house before we can sell it (we need to sell it due to finances).

After our short conversation this morning, he said he wanted to continue it after the kids go to bed tonight. I said ok but we are just going to be talking in circles. I hated to be negative towards him, but it is the truth. What else is there to say?

This morning, I was reading a book called Homework Hassle by John Rosmond. I am sick and tired of pestering our 11 year old son to practice his trombone. You will see an analogy to your exposing EA #1 - 4.

From pages 12 - 13 of Homework Hassle

The basic question, over which there apears to be much confusion, is , "Whose homework is it anyway?"

It's Billy's, right? Right! Except no one's acting like it is. Billy's parents, teacher, and (in the junior high/high school version) guidance counselor have, without realizing what they're doing, and certainly with the very purest of intentions, appropriated responsibliity for Billy's school performance -- responsibiity which belongs to Billy. In so doing, they've taken Billy's problem -- his failure to do his schoolwork -- away from Billy and made it their own, emotionally and otherwise...

As things stand, Billy has absolutely no reason to change his ways. He's "off the hook." And as long as people continue to do for Billy what he ought to do (and is certainly capable of doing) for himself, as long as people continue feeling for Billy what he ought to be feeling about himself (mad, frustrated, guilty), he has complete permission to continue being irresponsible.

End of quote

I am not trying to downplay the absolute catastophe of what your husband is doing. I know the pain only too well. Next week, I have the fourth surgery in a month for a rare type of skin cancer. I will have a disfiguring forehead. People have commented how well I am taking it. This is NOTHING compared to the devastation of the affair. Of course, I don't tell them that, but it's the truth.

Anyway, what I see is that you are "running interference for his conscience", as a friend told me. This same friend told me, "He's your first teenager."

As it stands, the only problem for him with his EAs is you get upset, and obviously that's not enough for him to stop.
He still has you. He still can come to you.

This personality disorder stuff, this sexual addiction stuff,... I'm married to a guy who has hurt me emotionally and physically...I don't think there's anything wrong with him except immaturity. My 8 year old, last year, said something that I think is behind the behavior of many WSs, and it was just so refreshingly honest: "Mom, I just want to do what I want to do."

If you back off, you cannot be considered controlling. You cannot be called ridiculous.

The very best piece of parenting advice I have ever gotten is "Be sad, not mad." You don't need to be mad at him. You can just be sad. I'm sad. I feel sad that we're in this situation. I feel sad that I don't want to have sex with you because you have been unfaithful.

THE BALL IS IN HIS COURT.

Dr. Harley has told me that time after time after time, and I finally believe it.

Cherishing

Well, I waited and waited and nothing. He started watching the football game. I put the kids to bed. He fell asleep on watching the game. He woke up to put the dog out, then went upstairs to go to bed. So, I guess silence says it all from his point. I just feel so worthless.

I heard about a postnuptial in another post. Has anyone done one? If so, what did you put in it. You should complete one with a lawyer, correct? I should probably make a new post about this, but I will see what I get here first.

Forget the postnuptial. WS' don't read or think. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

If he keeps patting your behind....pinch his butte....hard. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Will share a story about something similar later. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.