I have a quick question--my bf is going through a problem with his ex, where he found out from his kids (4 and 3) that mommy's new BF walks in on them and goes to the bathroom and that they openly walk around hte house naked in front of his kids.
He feels strongly that this isnt appropriate, where she said "any childhood psychologist would agree its okay". and dismissed his argument.
I thik its very weird-the bf of the mom's has been around the kids about 8 months and she already moved the kids into his house.

Basically, is it okay, or even LEGAL for this guy to be nude in front of the kids?

Apprantely the daughter companid too that she will b brushing her teeth and he will come in to the bathroom and be naked and jump in the shower or whatever...

anyonw have an opinion or know the law behind this?

Carina, firstly, no matter what you do, you as a GF of an x will have very little leverage, and you’ll be blamed for anything that happens if you interfere.

As far as legal goes, I think that it is a very sad reflection on our society that people have to look to our legal system to determine how they should be behaving towards kids in their household, instead of doing what is right. The answer of whether it is proper to be naked should be found in their own upbringing, within their gut, and not within some statute.

Now, to answer your question: although I personally do not see anything wrong with members of nuclear family seeing each other naked, I understand that in the puritanically focused society of ours, for better or worse, this could be misinterpreted. Thus, it would make sense for your BF’s x’s BF to cover up even if he things that there is nothing wrong with it.

HI AG-
I thank you for your response. I know, I did put the legal Q out there...because this guy isnt even legally the step parent or anything and him walking around nude is just a bit odd...to me anyway. I couldnt imagine getting naked in front of his kids....so maybe me and the bf are prudes? tehee. You know, I am not getting involved..as in wouuld never say anything to her..I jsut know right now he is sitting at home, getting upset over this because he doesnt agree with it and she thinks its okay...and he feels like he cant stop it and he refuses (the bf) to see why this is a big deal.

NO WAY! --If it is something that makes his children uncomfortable- then no, it it not acceptable. Your BF has every right to request that his ex modify her BF behavior- or he can- and should contact child welfare to look into this situation. Does the ex's new BF have a past history or record of child abuse- or sexual abuse, etc.? They are your BF's kids- it is his responsibility to protect them- even if they do not live with him all the time...maybe there will be nothing ever to come of it- maybe there will be something happen- who knows? But if he does not do anything about it and something DOES happen to his kids by this new bf of their mom- the he will never forgive himself. Better safe than sorry. and again, I stress- if it is making his kids feel uncomfortable-- that is some kind of a RED FLAG......
Please.... a concerned and diligent parent can prevent child abuse. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

NO WAY! --If it is something that makes his children uncomfortable- then no, it it not acceptable. Your BF has every right to request that his ex modify her BF behavior- or he can- and should contact child welfare to look into this situation. Does the ex's new BF have a past history or record of child abuse- or sexual abuse, etc.? They are your BF's kids- it is his responsibility to protect them- even if they do not live with him all the time...maybe there will be nothing ever to come of it- maybe there will be something happen- who knows? But if he does not do anything about it and something DOES happen to his kids by this new bf of their mom- the he will never forgive himself. Better safe than sorry. and again, I stress- if it is making his kids feel uncomfortable-- that is some kind of a RED FLAG......
Please.... a concerned and diligent parent can prevent child abuse.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

My W used to walk around naked in front of my two boys when they were young and it made me uncomfortable. Perhaps its the result of the society we live in. She covers herself now with underwear but it still bothers me when she wears the skimpy type and "stuff" is visible. She believes in the naturalist way of life but I think that modesty is still prudent even today. Incidentally, my wife started covering up when my kids were about 4 as well.

It does not matter whether the BF or GF is walking around nude. The only thing acceptable in my books is if its all males or all females. I walk around in the nude all the time but I have two boys. If I had a girl, I would cover up.

Carina, this is what I hear you saying

Your BF's daughter has come to your BF to tell him that THIS IS NOT OKAY for her

Your BF thinks this is harming his kids (BTW I agree, you don't know if the guy is "grooming" the kids for further molestation)

He is home getting upset instead of taking action to protect his kids, sending his D the message that she will not get protection from her Dad when she has a problem.

So what do you do?

1. Take full care of D until this is worked out.

2. Ask your BF to have a talk with the mother and other BF and D together, with your BF there to make sure that your D is not invalidated. This is not okay for her. This "should" be enough for them to see that they are making a choice to make their D feel unsafe in her own home.

3. Have legal options to back up the kids' best interests.

Carina, if your BF continues to do nothing, I think you need to look at whether you have a moral obligation to those kids to let child protective services, even anonymously, know about this. You know better than anyone else that the part that the child feels okay to complain to the other parent about is only the tip of the iceberg.

Carina, I don't believe the issue is nudity in front of a nuclear family. I think the issue is that this 4 year old is being forced to endure circumstances that she is not okay with today, even after speaking up, and sets the precedence that she is not going to be safe at home in the future as well.

Why does this woman have custody to begin with? Why is your BF allowing this for one more minute?

I have no issue with walking around nude in front of children of the same sex. For instance--a mother walking around nude in front of daughters, or a Father in front of his sons, but I have to stress--this should only happen when it's their OWN children. A bf living with the Mom is equal to a stranger, in my books. I think it's morally wrong, but I don't know how the heck you could control and/or stop something like that.

I think your bf has to consult with child services and find out their position on this.

This is creepy. And the little girl knows it. Time to fight for the kids.

Not a nuclear family or a bio family; a live-in boyfriend. The behavior is sexualizing the kids. There is no place that this little girl can be "private," even in the bathroom.

My mother remarried when we were 6 and 7. Our stepdad was extremely respectful of our privacy. I don't think he even stepped into the bathroom while fully clothed and while either my sister and I were in it, fully clothed, gazing into the mirror, while the door was wide open.

I never felt any creepiness with my stepfather. We weren't close, but I recognize that he was a good man, and I felt safe with him.

I hope your bf is going to fight for his children's safety and comfort.

A grown man being naked in front of a 4 year old girl is NOT OK. Some gigantic percentage of females are sexually abused. The statistics in terms of divorced mom's boyfriends are even more shockingly awful. This is a life altering disaster waiting to happen.

We can argue whether it is OK for bio dad who is married to bio mom to be naked in front of his 4 year old daughter. There is no argument that it is OK for an unmarried non-bio related adult male to be naked in front of a 4 year old girl.

I agree with ears-open. There needs to be a sit down between your bf, his ex and their D4. D4 needs to be supported and kept safe. Which means that SHE feels safe. If your bf cannot get his ex and her bf to agree to arrangements that allow D4 to feel safe, then your bf needs to get the legal system involved. Which would be unfortunate. Which is how he should pitch this to his ex.

And he probably needs to talk to his divorce lawyer right away. To determine what kind of documentation is required. Gonna be unpleasant for all involved to put D4 through the legal system. Hopefully ex-W and her bf will realize that and cooperate. I can just see ex-W and her bf denying it ever happened. Can you imagine how messed up D4 is going to become if her mom tells the judge that the guy never walked into the bathroom naked - even though D4 claims he did? D4 really needs her dad to man up and protect her.

Put it starkly. What if ex-W's bf molests D4? How will your bf ever live with himself knowing D4 warned him and he did nothing to protect her?

I think its wrong period.

So is this what it is coming down to? Someone who is naked in a house of his GF is assumed to be a molester?

Sorry that I am in the minority here. Yes, I think that the guy should cover up, but I think that there is a long distance between being naked and molestation. Should we assume that people who like to go to nudist camps or swim in the nude or suntan in the nude are all perverts? Let's not overreact and blown things out of proportion.

AG - normalizing exposure is not right and legally, the bf could be in danger of having police cuffs slapped on him and the mother losing all but supervised visitation.

Check out the legal definitions of molestation. Perhaps Canada is different, but here in most US states, it would mark the bf as a sexual predator FOR LIFE!

AG, I had a child molester stepfather who started his process when he was my mom's BF. I saw him do this to other girl children in the extended family as well. He didn't start with being nude in the bathroom with us, because we weren't 4 and it would have been obvious to us that it was not okay. He started with smaller things, like inappropriate touching and inuendo, that was confusing because it wasn't crossing a line in a big way, just small ways. So for a long time I was confused over whether to tell because I didn't want to make a big deal about nothing. And it was all blamed on us kids anyhow. But it got progressively worse and worse.

I am not assuming this particular man is a molester. But it is this kind of supposedly safe yet not safe grey area that molesters use to set kids up to doubt themselves and not tell when they should. The Courage To Heal by Laura Davis explains this pattern; it happens over and over again. Thank goodness Carina's BF's daughter did speak up. Many kids would not, especially seeing as the mother is calling it okay.

Like I said, kids only speak up about the things they are sure are wrong, because the fear of punishment and getting adults upset if they say something is wrong when it's not is so high. So there may well be other things going on in that house that the 3 and 4 year olds are too confused or scared to speak up about.

Also, on the board we know that these shack up relationships last what, 1-3 years on average? These kids' mother, with the way that she is willing to minimize her kids' concerns, is setting these babies up for a lifetime of being scared or worse of predatory men.

If the child needs for an adult to speak up for her, the parent not standing up for her (your boyfriend) is invalidating her and is neglecting her emotional needs.

My boy is 3-1/2, I walk around naked sometimes, and sometimes he sees me, he doesn't even care and neither do I. We still take baths together too. I'm a single mom though. Just go to Europe and see how less obsessed people are about their "natural" bodies...

What do you really know about this situation? Does he really run around the house naked or did the two kids at this age go into their bedroom while they were changing? It's fairly hard to keep a 3-4 year old from coming and going, and I don't think kids at this age realize privacy issues as much as you might think. Likely they'd walk in and not think much of it.

If the children said this was going on was it because "leading" questions were asked? I don't even know that my boy understands the word "naked" enough to express that I walked in while he was brushing his teeth and took a shower! If someone asked him if mommy was naked in the room, whatever I don't think at this age he could explain this, I don't know about a four year old though. Definitely the three year old is too young to really explain things. However if one was to ask "leading questions" then he might say "yes" or whatever one wanted him to say...

I wouldn't jump to "child abuse" allegations and quite frankly there's no way to prove this anyways... open a social services case and they'll make your life and your ex's life living ******, let alone some interrogation of your children. If you are worried about "child abuse" I'd read up on it and the signs of it before proceeding with anything. Are the children saying they don't want to be around him? Are they wary of this person? Are there bruises? Read up on sexual abuse even online. It's one thing to make allegations, it's another thing to prove it with no other evidence then a father "naked" going to the shower for goodness sake.

Personally I'd document everything in your own records for now if this is all you have on them. But I can guarantee you'll need more then this as "evidence" that anything's going on in this home...

What I meant is there would be MORE SIGNS if there was CHILD ABUSE going on in this home. First and foremost the children wouldn't want to be there, if they came to your home they wouldn't want to go back if there was MOLESTATION or SEX ABUSE going on ok? It wouldn't be just a kid saying boyfriend was seen naked. Can the children even explain how often this goes on or if this happened once, the dude running around naked? Think of how tramatic it would be for children of 3 and 4 to go through investigations with social service workers about this? That itself would cause an emotional scar, and even more so if police interview these children. I'm not saying you shouldn't watch and be wary, and bring this up to the wife and boyfriend, but I don't know about calling child services... my brother and his wife went through this when the step mother called about something minor, their live was ******, hearings, lawyers, judges and nothing became of it. But I believe the entire family was emotionally scared by this event. I think the mother in law over reacted to something minor, there was no proof and she wound up being an alcoholic, never seeing the kids again. If you already have a broken home I can GUARANTEE this will break it to the point that you'll never have calm relations with the ex and boyfriend ever again. If there's nothing going on that's CHILD ABUSE or MOLESTATION which I wouldn't think if the kids are acting "normal" wanting to go back to that house - then I think you should try to keep this within the family. If you go down that road of child services you are going to learn much more then you want to know about the "system" and it's not just the other family that will be on their lists - it'll be yours too. And likely you'll have an inspection as well as them. And then guess what, the boyfriend/jerk can get back with calling anonymously, making your life living ******. You might learn here more then you want to know...

Horsey, I don't see this at all as part of the natural instinct of kids to not understand privacy and walking in on the parents in their bedroom


These are grown up who are invalidating a kid who is not okay with this nudity.

Horsey, you know your son from birth, know when he's not feeling okay, and adjust what you do to accomodate for that. This man is a new friend of only a few months, not a father, to these kids, and doesn't have that kind of intution with them. The kid is asking for this to stop and the mother and BF make excuses instead.

If your son asked you to stop, because it was wierd to him, would you insist that it was okay, and continue to force your nudity on him knowing that it was wierd for him? Or would you validate his concerns?

Horsey, it took guts for you to stand up for your son the way that you did when push came to shove. The same way any of us would. Why do these particular kids deserve less protection?

Really, Horsey, if it was your child, you'd read up on signs for child sexual abuse and wait for these signs to appear? For the irreparable damage to be done? Before he takes real steps to protect these kids?

AG,

I really get what you're saying. I've lived all over the world and I don't have a huge issue with most nudity. Conservatism about nudity is not just a "western" thing....take Italy for instance...very conservative. There are some places where I make exceptions....a child's discomfort is one of them.

But it's important to note that we aren't talking about parental nudity here or a trip to the beach....this is a live-in boyfriend....and unfortunately the research about sexual molestation in those situations is clear about the increase in risk. Yes, I think there is a long way between casual nudity and sexual molestation, but as someone who has been sexually molested...the first step definitely was....casually exposing himself to me and it escalated from there. He wanted to see me....and he wanted to be seen. Casual nudity is an easy way to achieve that.

I think it's important not to be too judgemental about people's views here. I know a few men who have been molested....but I know very few women who haven't been. That may account for the some of the disparity in views. It's easier to feel as though folks are making mountains out of molehills if you haven't experienced sexual abuse. If you haven't been molested....maybe some of this stuff doesn't really come up on your radar.


I don't want to over-react....but under-reacting may be just as dangerous. Cohabitation is a high risk situation for children, and I think a realistic and balanced approach that's designed with the best interests of the children in mind would be ideal. Consequently....I'd rather err on the side of protection for my children. If it were my children....no boyfriend would be living in the house with my kids....and he sure wouldn't be walking into the bathroom naked while my children were naked and vulnerable too....nope. Now....if we were on a beach in St. Maartin where most folks were nude....no biggie...but NOT where there is any real privacy that might put my kids at greater risk. Most sexual abuse occurs at home, and home needs to be the SAFEST place for kids. This guy needs to tuck in his johnson and let this little girl...who is NOT HIS little girl.... have some privacy in the bathroom!