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Joined: Oct 2005
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I can tell you what the shrinks said to me, that I made a mistake and that there would have been other signs with my own sons if you know what I'm referring to. There was an investigation and my son was put through ******, and I can't say that was standing up for my son, I regret it to this day and I think it caused an emotional scar for him to have gone through this. I would NEVER ever put another child through THE SYSTEM knowing how it is without there being "more" because I can tell you NOTHING will become of it anyways, only more of a broken home, more blame, more resentment... I don't see people walking around naked in a home a child abuse and I can tell you NOTHING WILL BECOME OF IT if a report is filed, other then months of living ****** for parents and children. NOTHING will be proven here unless the "dude" confesses to more. I'd try ALL THINGS possible to discuss this with the other family and THAT is the recommendation of professional shrinks that KNOW the system... if it were my child and there were signs of sexual abuse that would be one thing, but I'd research careful signs of sexual abuse - and believe me someone walking nude isn't ENOUGH for any social worker, cop, judge to do a thing so why put a child through this? YOU DON'T know what I mean, and these people won't unless they DO MAKE THAT CALL. I'm all for child protection but believe you me, I'd never ever ever involve myself with what I call the NAZI'S... btw I wasn't even with my boy the weekend he had a few bruises, they never interviewed my ex although it was established that this happened with him, they came to MY home for an inspection as they called it, interviewed my boy knowing they had no proof, put him through serious trama, me too, and I talked to a lot of people about this - even the police agree this destroys homes and interaction between families. And very rarely can they prove abuse, and believe you me, having researched this to death, this dude walking around nake is PROOF of NOTHING. However if one really thinks there could be SEXUAL abuse, the only benefit would be a warning to the man, that's all that will become of this - after months and months of ****** getting through the system. Read up on signs of sexual abuse before calling them... that's all I"m saying. If there's SERIOUS concern, if the kids are not wanting to go back to this home - and if a child is being abused at this age, they'll say "no, I don't want to go home..." I don't know if they are saying that or not, if they are, that's DIFFERENT then what I'm saying here. Ok

Joined: Apr 2003
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Um...Horsey...my children were abused by a family member.

At the time, they LOVED their visits to the molester's house.

Their behavior didn't change for years, and when it did, it took MORE years to figure out what happened.

It's a a common fallacy that molestation always shows up right away. More often than not there are very few clues to it's existence when it's going on.

It's the years and years afterwards that suck.

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Also what I learned is kids at 3 and 4 are quite honest. Typically they don't defend their parents, they state it "as it is." As children get older they'll "cover" up for mom or dad, or perhaps for a boyfriend knowing they might make their mother mad. However kids if asked leading questions can change their story, they can answer the way "daddy" wants them to answer especially if hammered enough times.

If the child said something you have to go back to what was initially said before it was repeated over and over again. What did the little girl say EXACTLY? Was she really that worried about this or did dad and step mom add a lot of worry that she didn't have? One would then have to think back, were the children expressing worry about going home? What else did they say about this guy? Has he been mean to their mommy? Does he use language they are repeating? What other evidence is there besides step daddy walks around naked sometimes? I'm not saying take this lightly I'm just agreeing with the two shrinks I hired for the big bucks and I wish I had before calling in THEM - there would be other signs if there was abuse going on.... This is a touchy subject, and I'm sorry to fill everyone in on the facts, THE SYSTEM DOESN'T WORK. Yes there are cases where it does work, but in over 80 percent of cases that are filed nothing becomes of them other then what I'd consider in my own case HARASSMENT and of the wrong person. I'd never wish the system on anyone even innocent children - unless there is "more" then this... Innocent children don't need to go through child service and police investigations at this age, and what they say isn't "evidence" in court anyways. Even the sytem will tell you that, judges through out most anything a 3 or 4 year old says... poor little children, even if the man is wacko - and I'd hope not abusive to the point that one day there will be proof - not much can be done. That's all I"m saying.

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Horsey, as a teen I finally got the courage to report what went on in my house, and where I live, child protective services did nothing either. Let me tell you, going through that, even with no repercussions, put the molester on notice that this family was not going to put up with that any more. I think that was the only thing that saved my little sister from a lifetime of being molested, as other girls in that extended family were.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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Not every story has the same content nor the same ending- EVEN if they are about the same thing. My 5 year old niece was molested by her paternal uncle- in her grand parents' home.
She did not know that his behaviour was "wrong" he bribed her with candy, money, toys, etc... so he could""tickle her butt" as SHE told my Mom one day.... Yes we brought the system into it- he went to jail... she is recovering- and will be 15 next month- but yes- she does have some scars and subsequent ill behavious as a result... THERE were signs....unfortunately- her parents dismissed them as normal, okay things because it was "family".... DO NOT NEGATE ANY OF THE CHILD'S COMPLAINTS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


-not just 4myself anymore... for BOTH of us ...we survive together, or not at all....
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It's not "family" - it's Mom's live in stud.

It's not done in the context of safety and normalcy; like on a beach where bathers are casually taking off their clothes to go into the water. (That sort of thing happens in Europe and nobody bats an eye.)

It is being done in an invasive way. What 4 yr old child wants to see Mom's f*ckpuppet parade his hairy [censored] and saggy dangling junk in the front while she thinks she is in her safe place - the bathroom? Tell you what: Had that been me, I'd have hurled my dinner.

Boyfriend's ex wife is really letting the kids down on this one. Boyfriend is too. That child is sending up flares. Not a joke.

And mind, I have no problem with nudity. The context here is all wrong.

edited to add: When I was 15, I lived for awhile with my Dad, his wife, and their babies. He used to get up in the morning to give me lunch money. One morning he was accidentally exposed (he wore boxers). I immediately asked him to put on pants before he came out of the bedroom. And he immediately went back in and pulled on some pants, and always ever after was careful. And he was my bio father.

It's simple respect.

Last edited by Bellevue; 09/18/07 09:06 PM.
Joined: Mar 2002
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horsey,

Quote
It's one thing to make allegations, it's another thing to prove it with no other evidence then a father "naked" going to the shower for goodness sake.

For goodness sake....this isn't a "father" at all...it's just some "dude". This is a live-in boyfriend ignoring a child's privacy in the bathroom, and the wishes of a bonafide parent. The REAL father of these children objects to his children being exposed to <dude nudity>.

He has a right to object because they are <his> children and it's his job to protect them from high risk environments.

And he has good grounds to object because children living in a home with their mother's boyfriends are a much higher risk group for physical and sexual abuse.

Sexual abuse is traumatic. The system that investigates it can also be traumatic. Both things are true.

So? The best thing to do is to prevent and minimize risk and avoid all that. And it's pretty easy....don't live with boyfriends....including naked dudes who are more interested in letting it all hang out than they are in acting with respect for both parents.

This isn't a beach or a swimming hole....this a bathroom where people ARE entitled to privacy if they so desire it. Even at the age of two....my little boy prefered privacy in the bathroom. I vote to get the naked co-habiting dudes away from the little kids.

I have no issues about nonsexual nudity between parents and children....that's mainly a cultural choice. I have a completely different yardstick for <dudes>. My German and Dutch friends are very open about nudity....but even they are very very mindful about who interacts with their children in that natural state. And they are also respectful around other people who don't share the same views about nudity. In a situation where molestation is 33 percent higher already.....why would anybody want to introduce a naked dude in the mix? Yikes <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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That it's 33 percent is SICK in itself. What does that say about American males? YUCK. I might be niave but I can't imagine what goes on, what social workers REALLY see, that made them so tainted to my own life... YUCK. Starfish you have great ideas, get the guy out but how, this is an ex, who's exwife is living with some guy, the kids are saying "boyfriend" was naked" and I can tell you NO ONE IN THE SYSTEM will be able to prove abuse on this. It's NOT ENOUGH.

Dear poster, plant a teddy bear with a voice recorder in this home before you call the NAZI"S. DON'T call those people without more unless you want your kids and everyone to be harrrassed to death with NO PROOF. They make teddy
with recorders. Yes I agree there are scuz balls out there, many of them... but lets prove the guys more then some dude running aorund naked. I do that.

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horsey,

You're talking about "charges" and I'm talking about "safety". Calling the "nazis" is not the only way to address the issue of a nude dude....and the goal is to make the kids safe....not put the naked dude in jail LOL. Here's some possibilities:

*Confrontation.....instead of arguing, have a parental meeting to discuss concerns. Explain how uncomfortable the situation has become and appeal to the ex-wife to reconsider her stance on this issue.

*Psychologist....The exW mentioned psychologists. I think it would be fairly easy to find a psychologist who can see the risk in thi situation. Even though most psychologists don't think non-sexual parental nudity is an issue....that isn't what this is about. Psychologists are the one's doing the research on at-risk kids....and any decent one will see the risk in this situation. Maybe a trained professional can get through to the exW if he cannot.

Dr. Bernard Ewigman from the University of Chicago did such a study which was published in the Journal of Pediatrics. His findings:

Quote
Young children who live with their mothers' boyfriends or other unrelated adults are 48 times more likely to die from child abuse, a study has found.

"It is not single parenthood per se that puts a child at risk," said co-author Dr. Bernard Ewigman of the University of Chicago. "It is the presence in the household of unrelated adults, usually a male boyfriend, that dramatically increases the risk."


Attorney....Pursue sole legal custody if the children are at risk. Just starting the process may create a change. It's possible to prove that one environment is better than another, or that one environment is more stable....without having to go after the dude who so far is <jes walking around nekkid>. This can be expensive....but the goal is safety more than change in custody....so just getting an attorney involved in a small way may give him some leverage to negotiate.

Man to man.....Sit down with nekkid dude instead of going through ex-wife and express concerns and make requests. Avoid punching him face and facing assault charges.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Ask Uncle Vinny to go "talk" to him.

Anyway....I think you're pretty narrowly focussed on proving abuse and the evils of the "system"....when there is alot of real estate between arresting the dude and encouraging him to cover up or better yet....move the kids out of that situation. Casual nudity alone is not grounds for child abuse.....but it is grounds for concern when the nude dude is mom's boyfriend who is living in the house with these kids. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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