Hi all,
I posted this on the Just Found Out board, but since this board gets so much traffic, I'm repeating here. I've been reading this site for the past week, and have decided I could use some input from those who will give it to me straight.

October will mark my 12 year wedding anniversary. We do not have children. On 11/29/06 I found out my husband had been having an affair. I had to use his cell phone because mine wasn't working. There was a msg there that I listened to and it was the ow. So, big blowout that lasted a few weeks.

He was very remorseful, however I don't once recall seeing him shed a tear. Said he was at a bar one night and she came up and kissed him, and one thing led to another. Said he only saw her (for sex) once a month or so, but acknowledged they did talk on the phone a lot.

I immediately went online to print his entire phone records. He called her every morning on his way to work. And several other times throughout the day. The only reason I believe he could possibly have been telling the truth about how often they see eachother is that she lives an hour away, and his work schedule would hardly have allowed for him to get away to be with her.

I shared the information with a couple of my close friends, but nobody else. BIG mistake. I should have told everyone I know about it! Three weeks ago I came home late from work and he was sleeping. For whatever reason, I snooped through his cell phone. I had stopped doing that some time ago, but something told me I needed to look. Well, what'dya know...there was a text from him to her that very morning. Saying, 'how are you, what's up'. Very ironic that I caught it the very same day he initiated contact again, but thank God I caught it in time.

Upon confronting him this time I asked WTH he would do this to me again. His response? Stress. Money has been a huge issue for us for many years, and he says she used to be his escape from the stress of his every day life. He claims he does not love her, and "absolutely not" does he want to be with her. He claims over and over that he loves me and he wants to be with me forever. BUT he doesn't want to do what I ask of him (counseling).

Now I realize I was an IDIOT to not demand counseling the first time around. I can see quite clearly how I should have handled things. He wanted to brush it under the rug and forget about it, and I guess in a way I did too. It was too painful to think about it day in and day out, and in time I learned to forgive and I tried to forget. I began to trust him again, and just when I did...BAM...I got hit again.

He initially refused counseling. Says he doesn't believe in them. Well, really, I think he is just a chicken, thinking he will be attacked. We did marriage counseling 5 years ago for a couple of sessions...he was not keeping down a job and I got fed up and moved out. Went to counseling and worked things out, and he changed dramatically for the better. Things were going great. We finally were able to purchase a beautiful home 3 years ago. I thought things were going so great. But anyway...

My question is how to proceed from here. I know looking at it on paper, the answer seems an obvious LEAVE HIM! (especially since we don't have children). But it's so much easier said than done. I love him. Obviously I do or I would have left already. I told his Mom, who he is very close to. She was very supportive of me and gave him a big talking to, and his dad did the same. They do not approve of his actions, and the will support me in whatever I decide to do. I haven't told my family though. I know for certain they would never be able to forgive him, and right now that's more drama that I am prepared to deal with.

Reading Dr. Harley's book (SAA) was helpful, but I am struggling with the Plan A and Plan B. Although I see the validity of it, I'm not prepared to move out once I get to plan B. If I move out, it's for good. I'm not going down the separation road again. Or, if he's claiming he wants to stay and 'be with me forever', then are we in R? Honestly I know recovery only works if we BOTH work on the marriage. So, I guess I don't know where we are at right now!

I've scheduled a counseling appt on my own for next week, and he hasn't responded yet if he will join me. Ultimately I know in my heart if he refuses, there is no hope to save this marriage. I am the caretaker in this relationship, and I don't want to fix us on my own. I need him to give a little too, ya know?

If you're still reading, I thank you. I'm sure you know I could go on and on, but I'm trying to keep it short and to the point. Thanks in advance for any input you may have.

Kate

JustKate,

Welcome to MB, however, sorry to see you on this part of the site!

A's are addictive and your WH needs to commit to you there will be no contact (NC) forever. It the OW married too? You could expose to her BH. If they met through work you could expose there. I understand about your family, although you may want to selectively expose in order to have support for yourself.

As far as whether to do Plan A /Plan B, most are advised to tell the WS to leave the home for Plan B, not the BS. From what I can observe in others here, you must be up for this mentally first, otherwise to execute a poor one can be more damaging to you than helpful.

Good Luck!

Hi again Kate,

My response from "Just found out"

Kate, Sorry you find yourself here, but welcome.

It's very possible he could dump the OW easily, without emotionally painful withdrawls. But if thats the case, why hasn't that already occured? In otherwords "If he doesn't Love this woman" and remains in contact. He obviously doesn't value your feeling too much?

I believe your first challege is to verify your H's commitment to your M.

Now is the time for you to set the rules which he either follows, or losses you.

The following would be a great start:

1. NO Contact - None, Nadda, ZIP. You need to make him write a NO Contact Letter from him to OW (that you read, and approve), YOU mail it "signature required".

2. Change cell number(s), email addee's, anything that can be changed to avoid contact from her.

3. Your WH must live life an open book in order to remove any doubts you may have. Online access to his cellphone, email, etc. He should be happy to provide you whatever you need to remove doubt.

Moving may not "fix" your problems, but if an option it might assist in starting fresh, and also put some distance between your WH and potential contact.

You might also consider moving your post over to the General Questions II forum. It gets alot more attention. As result you will see more responses.

Continue to read this site.

Hi JK,

Ditto the welcome. First and foremost, he needs to send a NC letter to the OW. You need to find out who she is and make sure you expose the A to her BH is she if married. Once you know who she is, then you can decide who else to expose to.

I would also make MC with a MC who is on board with the MB principles, a condition of staying with him.

If he is sincere in wanting to recover your marriage, you both have much to do here. If you have been reading here, then you already know the road ahead is very bumpy!

Good Luck

Who

He told me she is not married, but she lives with her ex husband for the sake of their 3 kids. How messed up does THAT sound? At first I thought he was making it up, but who could? The ow's xh was home when wh was there (so he says) and they lead separate lives. Whatever!

There are no MC in my area who are on board with the MB principles, based on my search. I will dig deeper to see if I can find one though.

If I asked him to, he would change his phone number. But there would always be the doubt in my mind that he could break no contact and she would get his #. The trust is gone!

I told him yesterday that I was tempted to call her or text her, and he said 'do you want to meet her?'. WHY would he ask me that? He said it jokingly, but deep down did he mean it? Did he really want me to meet her to completely expose her or something???? I don't get that one...

He sounds like a poker player, who expects not to get his bluff called.

The whole "she lives with her ex-husband thing" DEFINATELY needs confirmation.

WS will lie lie lie.

My wife made up the most outrageous lies, things that when I heard them at first seemed like they had to be true, because, as you just said, "who could make THAT up?!".

Call the "ex-husband". I bet you'll be surprised by what you learn.

Get the number and call the 'XH'. Never rely on second hand infomation, even if it is from your H.

My FWH told me that his OW's parents knew about he and she being together. I believe that he was telling me the truth, but they were not hit with the reality of what that meant. They lived in a nice little coccoon, away from their daughters misdeeds, not getting the full impact of what HER choices were doing to MY family. I'm sure some gas started to leak from the affair mobile after that call.

My XWW initially told me that the OMW was having her own affair.

LIE

This was done because of fear of exposure.

On the same evening I exposed and before I told my XWW I had exposed to OMW I was told OM came clean the night before and OMW had moved out with their S.

LIE

This was done because of fear of exposure.

When they open their mouths and make sounds you have to apply the following analysis:

Did it make any sense? If it did make some kind of sense it was a lie.

Did it not make sense, devoid of common reason or simple logic? It is “fog talk”, you will never understand it and it is probably still a lie.

Expose to her XH.

You might find out that her "ex" is surprised to discover he is divorced......they may still be very much married

because waywards

LIE

to each other and about each other.

Call the OW's man - today. Expose the affair.

And yes, change his cell phone number. Block her email address.

Have him write a "no contact" letter. You read it, YOU mail it.

Make him give you all of his passwords to all of his email accounts, everything.

Install a keylogger on your computer - do NOT tell him you are doing this.

He must account to you for all of his time - yes, he will will not like this, but too bad. You didn't like the affair, did you?

Order and read, together, "Surviving an Affair".

Other books that are pretty good: Relationship Rescue, After the Affair, Not Just Friends.

Do the Emotional Needs Questionnaire on this website - he does one, you do one.

Talk about the results of the ENQ together.

Then, you go into Plan A.

welcome to mb and sorry we all have to meet here..

i bet ow is still legally married and

they, meaning ow and your h, are lying...

Exposure really works, it will pop the bubble they are in...

ditto on the advice above

All I have is her cell phone #. I know the city she lives in, but I don't know her last name. Will do some sleuthing to figure out the info I need.

We don't have internet at home, otherwise I would have installed keylogger months ago. I know I would be able to get some good information that way. He has told me his yahoo email password, but he only checks his email once every couple of weeks...and I'm thinking he has perhaps created a second account and not told me about it. Because all that is in the one he gave me is junk mail.

My next step is to find a digital recorder for his car. Anyone know where to get a decent but inexpensive one???

Thanks for your responses all. I truly appreciate your opinions.

JK,

Walmart has some. I'm not sure of the quality.

Office Depot or Radio Shack will have a selection.

The voice activation feature is a must. I would look to spend about $50.00

There are some sites that "may" help you find phone info that are free. If that doesn't work there are other sites that "may" help you that cost money.

Free: normally effective for landlines, and not so effective for cellphones: zabasearch.com or Anywho.com

You might checkout the spying 101 thread on this page of the forum for other ideas.

-JKT

I used the web search Intellius , and did a search on the OW's name. I came up with her sister, and her mother and father. If you know her first and LAST name. I think you can also do phone number searches there. It cost me a small fee, but is worth every penny.

Circuit City has a large selection of digital recorders. Be sure it is a voice activated type. Practice with it before you deploy it so there are no surprises. Make sure any alarms such as low battery are on mute.

Understand there may be legal ramifications to putting it in his car.

Good info folks...thank you. I did read the entire Spying 101 thread and found some good info. We don't have a landline phone though, just our cell phones. I have his records, but it only shows outgoing calls. Sure wish they showed incoming. Bummer.

I've got a good place to start. Thanks again.

What cell service provider do you have?

I can go online at my Cingular/ATT account and see all the calls within the past 2-3 hours. I can sort the bill by numbers, download it in Excel, and go back for 12 months.

In 1/2 hour I was able to make a sortable 1-year record of their calls in Excel.

I could see their patterns and tendencies including how they would "ping" each other for the "all clear".

I have Verizon, and echo what Chrisner has posted. I could see all calls.

Are you talking about going online and looking at his records, or are you only talking about what you can view on the actual phone. You can delete the memory on the phone, even specific calls in and out. That is one of the reasons that I find having access to the phone a false sense of security. Now, having access to online records of calls in and out is better.

He has Sprint. I know his online password, and can view the previous phone bills. It shows the #'s dialed out, and it does show an incoming call, but not the #.

What I did do last winter is block her phone from being able to text him. I casually brought up texting last week and he said 'she doesn't text me so you don't have to worry about that'. When I asked why he said 'I don't know...for some reason her phone sends back her texts to me'. I had to laugh in my head because if only he knew....

I know he knows I check his cell phone when he's sleeping or in the shower, so I just feel as though he is deleting calls and text msgs. He's not THAT stupid. Which is why I don't want to tell him he has to give me open access to his cell phone. All he has to do is delete everything before I get to it.

I called one of his friends today and have confirmed that the ow is in fact divorced.