Last June I accidentally discovered my wife was seeing someone. After the initial denials and the “he’s just a friend" routine she came clean and said he was more than that. It was an awful day. I couldn't sleep that night and mulled over my feelings. The next morning I gave her an ultimatum, stop seeing him or it was over between us. In addition, I demanded that she call him that very day and tell him it was over and that it was her choice - end of story. I also told her that if she ever heard from him or even accidentally saw him she must tell me, in order for me to feel trust in her. She agreed. I pleaded for the truth and all the truth. She told me they would just meet for coffee or a walk once a week for an hour or two. She told me that our relationship had gone stale, that she no longer felt passion for me but that she felt passionate towards him. Of course this hit me like a lightning bolt.

She did what I asked and told me that he seemed confused by her cutting it off like that but he agreed not to contact her. That day I found in her work bag his initial love letter from the end of March. I asked her about it and the fact that it seemed so intimate. I asked her directly if they had a physical relationship. She denied that absolutely. I resolved to repair our marriage in spite of the pain and confusion I had.... I loved her.

We were about to go on vacation in two weeks so I did my best to look forward to that. I reflected on my life and the state of our marriage every day. I realized that I had not been a good husband. I neglected her emotional needs; I was selfish, depressive etc etc. Of course, I never realized the rut our relationship was in over at least the last 3-4 years. On the other hand she never once told me that she was unhappy or that things should change between us. In this sense, I feel she is nearly as responsible for the breakdown.

After this rude awakening and upon deep reflection I resolved to change myself. I resolved to eliminate ALL my bad and destructive habits and attitudes. I resolved to enjoy the life I was leading and not to act like a victim of the world, laying blame etc. I told my wife I had decided to nurture my soul and become a new man. She noticed the difference. Amazingly, even I noticed. All of a sudden I had energy. I had enthusiasm. I really have a zest for life. I told her I couldn’t wait to go on our trip (and that was a 180 degree change from my former ways). We went away to Japan for three weeks with our teenage daughters. She remarked often that I was different and I told her about the energy I felt and the love I had for her. We made love almost every day (kids in separate hotel rooms). We had the time of our lives and she told me that it was the best vacation she ever had.

Of course all was not well. In Japan, at night, I would sometimes grapple with the pain of her affair and the fact that it’s end seemed too good to be true. At the airport on our return, I told her that I was nervous, that I was worried that he would try and contact her. She answered that he was a gentleman and wouldn’t. Of course two days into her return to work he emailed her. The contents of the email could only be described as ignoring her cut-off and inviting her to meet. Obviously he sensed I found out and I think he was ‘testing the waters’. She told me about it and asked if she could call him to re-affirm the breakup. I agreed. When she came home she looked shaken. She told me that he had gotten angry (called her names?) and hung up on her. That night I saw something that scared me. My wife had odd physical convulsions. She told me that she couldn’t sleep and it was as though something was trying to get out from under her skin. Clearly this was from the shock of what he had said. It deeply disturbed her. It also worried me deeply. If she had reacted like this there was more to their affair than she let on. The next day, he called her back at work to apologize for his behavior. He said he loved her, would never hurt her and wouldn’t contact her again. She told me this that night. However, the wife I had gone to Japan with seemed to be missing. In stead, I was with someone who seemed emotionally hollow, drained. When we talked she said that she was staying with me but that she needed time, that she wasn’t in the same place I was (feeling love and ready to go forward). I totally accepted that. We started to make time for each other, taking walks and so on..

The whole thing didn’t add up for me. On the one hand she was deep friends with that guy, even in love but on the other hand the level of her ‘withdrawal’ seemed to suggest more. I confronted her one day. I said I couldn’t believe that she clandestinely met someone for over two months and only had coffee and walks. She then said the just kissed on the cheek and cuddled. That was it for me. I told her that there was no reason to lie about pecks on the cheeks and cuddles and that she had to get serious about the truth. She reluctantly agreed and finally admitted that they were intimate. I felt twice betrayed. Once by her affair, but secondly by her continuing cycle of lies. The lies hurt much worse than the affair itself. She rationalized that she was trying to protect me. Protect me from what I asked… the truth??? She said she panicked, that when I found out we were about to go on holiday and she felt she couldn’t tell me. Fine I said. I was hurt again, much worse than before, but I would go on if she agreed to work with me. Her expression was ‘we’re turning the page’. It felt good at the time but I was skeptical. Could she close that door?

We started to do things together on weekends. Cycling, hiking, spending time sharing household activities like gardening etc. She seems to have a great time and if you were to meet us you might think we are the perfect couple. We laugh and enjoy ourselves. Our family dynamic is also totally excellent.

The big ‘but’ is that she can’t be intimate with me and not just sex. Every sort of intimate gesture from touching each other gently, caresses (things most couples take for granted) are absent. I’ve noticed that in bed she avoids touching me. For example, if her feet or leg touches mine, she withdraws. (The amazing thing is that during her affair, she was intimate with me in every way and would never have acted like this). After reading about infidelity I’ve come to realize that she is in a mourning state.

One day she went away for a day meeting out of town. On her return, when I picked her up, she gave me a peck on cheek. I was stunned. In 20 years of knowing her (married16) she had never done that. I told her I was shocked but she didn’t really say much. The next weekend I asked her if the other man had ever contacted her again. There it was! She said yes, that a few days previous to her trip he had left her a phone message and an email asking that she speak to him, but she said that she didn’t. She also admitted that on the train she only thought of him. (obsessively IMPO). I was very hurt. Again he drove a wedge between our recovery.

Time has passed again and I have tried to get her to improve her communication with me. I told her that was so important that she communicate her state of mind so that I know where she is at. I sure do. She admits that I have changed (lost 40 lbs, complete attitude and behavior adjustment etc) but she can’t believe that it will last. She seems to only see the old me and wallow in the thought that the other man offered her a real change. She called it ‘another way’. She said that she isn’t leaving any time soon but I find it hard to get her to actively engage in re-building. I have printed out may of the articles from this web site and have asked her to read them. My feeling is that she might not believe in the long term change I present (in fact my radical change might even scare her) and worse, she doesn’t seem to believe that she can love me again. I told her that I am convinced we can build love and I can meet all her emotional needs. She is skeptical since our marriage was at such a low point that she basically gave up on it. Her disappointment with me in the marriage and her love for the other guy seems to be her focus. I keep chipping away cheerfully, and try and deposit as much as I can into her love bank it doesn’t look like it’s doing any good

My question is…..
When will I know that she is getting over the grieving for the lost lover?
When will she know? Will she ever know?
Does she have to try to actively re-engage with me first?

I try everything including talking about my failures in the marriage. I tell her I admit and take responsibility for all those things and that I want not to go back to our relationship, but I want a whole new relationship built on mutual happiness. I told her I was also dissatisfied in the old relationship and that this is our chance to redeem our 20 years together instead of having those years go to waste.

If only she could move from her ‘passive’ state.

It is going to take a long time and you must be prepared for that. She is going through withdrawal and every contact she has with the OM will be like starting over from zero. And you will make little to no progress on rebuilding your relationship while she is in withdrawal. It sounds like she got in pretty deep emotionally.

Have you exposed the affair? Is the OM married? Unfortunatly even if your WW wants the affair over it is not over until OM is out of her life forever.

By the way, nice write up on your situation. So many of us here have gone through the exact experience and emotions your wrote. I found myself nodding and saying, "Yep, me too".

It sounds like you are doing a lot of things right and have a pretty good Plan A running. Have you been visiting this site long?

Consider a call as soon as possible to the Harleys. They can answer your three questions and give you a plan to expedite it.

Thanks chrisner,

What do you mean 'exposed the affair"?
She's admitted it to me, I've discussed it with my best friend and she with hers. That's about it.

The OM is not married and I think that also appeals to her since it offers a clean, fresh new opportunity at life.

The worst is the feeling that she has me over a barrel.
She knows I love her deeply, she sees me doing 200% effort ....but she can sit back and remind me of the faults I caused in our relationship, and never forgets to suggest the OM offers "a new way".

Sometimes I feel so used and hurt.
The pain is sometimes unbearable.

IAMME-
How about have her change her cell phone number, and e-mail addresses? That why he will not be able to contact her.

It is true, every time they have contact with the OP, they do become withdrawn, and conflicted. It would be best if he had no way to contact her.

The pain for you is real. It is hard. But she is still with YOU, she still chooses YOU.

I wish you well!

Ask her to write a no contact letter to the OM. Then YOU approve and mail it or email it to him. It should say that the affair was a very selfish mistake, and that she loves you, and wants no contact with him ever again for any reason.

All contact has to end for her to have feelings for you again. Although she thinks that the OM was a way to another life, it is just a fantasy, and exists only because of that.

Thanks all.

I don't need to ask her to write a letter. She met him briefly Aug 1 to tell him in person (she demanded this for her self respect and out of respect for him). At that meeting she told him that she chooses to try and fix her marriage and that he couldn't contact her anymore. He agreed.

What happened was that she met him originally over a period of several months, once a month in the context of a professional service that she provides in the heath care industry. The service wasn't for him but he accompanied a close relative to those meetings.

When he called her voicemail and emailed her weeks ago it was with the pretense (perhaps genuine) of getting information on that previous subject. My wife didn't return phone call nor email. The sad truth, as I told my wife was that any form of conversation with him would devolve into the ' I miss you so much' thing and would destroy our chances.

Recently I asked her the following. If I was a genie real magical power, and could grant her one wish, what would it be? She answered that she couldn’t decide between two. One wish was that we could go back about two years or so (start of the real decline in quality between us). The other wish was that she could get a small place of her own and be given the time to explore her feelings for the OM and me. She told me there is a real struggle between her head and her heart. The head says stay with me, work at fixing this mess. Her heart says go to the OM, because she thinks she is in love with him.

She also is struggling with the fact that I have changed so drastically. On the one hand she knows she doesn’t want to go back to the old me, the old way we were. On the other hand she knows that she felt she might love the OM and for sure it offered the perception of a fresh start, but she admits she hardly really knows him since they met only for a few hours at a time at most once a week. Finally, she knows she once loved me but she is confused by the ‘new me’. It’s almost like I am a third person to her, but one she is detached from and in her grieving state, unable to accept my deposits into her love bank.

Having said that, I keep depositing, I bring her real engagement and conversation. I show her love with a smile and always try to end the day in bed with a laugh or good feelings.

She has admitted to me that her disappointment in me crystallized through her affair. In other words, she didn’t know how much out of love she was until she ran into him. The affair gave her perspective on our relationship and now she says that her disappointment in me is so very deep that she doesn’t know if it can be overcome. My response to her was that it would be a huge tragedy to look at our relationship of 20 years ending like this. I offered her another vision. I suggested that what if we could re-build? What if she could feel love again? What if we could reach 80 yrs old and say “thank God we didn’t let this fail”.

I can only hope that in this way, and in my approach each day I can chip away that that canker on her heart. I have to keep faith in myself and in the power of love.

Her words sound very typical and aren't surprising. Sure, your love may have been dormant and needed rekindling, but finding that in the arms of another man is not the answer.

She's being selfish and a wayward. Recruit the Harley's. They're cheaper than lawyers.

The thing here to remember is that you need to be a strong man and not a weak weeping, whimpering ball of mush that she can trample on. That's easier said than done. She doesn't comprehend the magnitude of her betrayal or the horrible emotions on your end of knowing that this beautiful thing that was exclusive to you for all the years of your marriage was surrendered to someone else.

That's a horrible violation and one you have every right to be upset about. She can never understand that pain unless she goes through it herself. That's not encouragement for you to show her what it feels like. That's something she'll hopefully see when the fog lifts.

All you can do is continue to be the "new and improved" you. You're still the same man. You're just living up to your potential vs what you were doing before.

Keep being positive. Keep having pride in yourself and in your role as a father. Continue to work on showing her you are a new and improved husband and father and that this horrible event showed you that. But she needs to understand that her actions aren't without consequence.

She won't understand that right now so don't keep throwing it in her face.

I never got as far as you. My ex never really agreed to work on our marriage, so you have some element of hope there. Listen to the advice on these boards. The greatest mistake you can make is to believe that you are different from everyone here. There's a reason why your story sounds familiar to most of us. We've been in your shoes. Some of us have recovered our marriage. Some of us lost it.

I made the mistake of thinking that my situation was unique and that my ex was different and I gave her the benefit of the doubt.

One year later and I find myself fighting for more custody of my kids and still trying to recover from the financial aftermath of letting her keep everything. I look back in shame because I rolled over and let her keep everything, believing that appeasement would help me eventually save my marriage.

Don't be me!

You still need to have her right the letter. If she is still in contact with him, the affair is not over. Also, you need to be very skeptical about what was actually said at that meeting. You can NOT take her word for what transpired. Do you know who this guy is? Or is everything you wrote based on what your WW told you? Do some digging on your own and find out this guy's name and you can expose it to his family. They may tell you to bugger off, but they also may believe in the sanctity of marriage, and will put pressure on the OM. You don't know unless you try.





Do you have access to her phone records and email accounts? It sounds like she is still wayward and deep in the fog, so she probably won't give them to you, but you could install a keylogger and try to catch her in a lie. The point being, she has given up the right to privacy. Affairs thrive in secrecy and to protect your marriage, you need to crush this affair completely.


Definitely do everything you can to not let her move out. Separation does not heal infidelity. It will only provide their relationship with more freedom.

I'm pretty new here, but just from reading the other posts, your wife seems like a textbook case for continued involvement in the affair. You can NOT believe her that it is ended. She almost assuredly speaks to him at work or even meets with him behind your back. I'm not saying that to be mean, just to be realistic.

It sounds like you are doing a good plan A, but take the other steps recommended on the MB forums. Expose this to anyone who can help put pressure on your wife to end the affair. Read the other threads here on exposure and you can prepare yourself for her reaction, but you will also know its necessary.

Good luck!

This is very foggy affair speak. The affair is still alive. NC for life with OM must be achieved or this cycle will never break and you will lose your marriage.

This is the classic "I need space to find myself.", in that airy, clueless, and vacant chant. She wants space to continue the affair without the inconvenience of your presence. You can never let this happen.

Get more intel on him and expose to his family. How about that close relative he had the meetings with? Are you really sure he is not married?


Your Plan A is confusing her and conflicting her. That is good. Keep doing this. Have you looked at the EN questionnaire? Have you identified her top EN’s?


She is in love with the fantasy and the infatuation. She has no clue who he really is. My XWW came to love her POS OM hiding in the back of dark bars and giving BJ’s in the back of a company truck. It’s a beautiful thing.



Blame shift to justify her unilateral decision to have an affair. But at least this is better than the old, "The affair has nothing to do with the marriage!"


And this new crystal clear perspective probably has her endlessly saying things like, “I’m not sure what I want” and “I don’t know.” and “I’m confused.” Wayward puke talk.

Ok folks,
here's what believe or I feel I know or.

I believe that the affair is over in physical fact. I believe she doesn't call him (can't verify since she uses the office phone at work). I don't think he calls her at work since it might prove embarrassing. He would have to go through her secretary and that wouldn’t look good (from her perspective). When the opportunity presents itself I’m going to ask her to have her voicemail number changed and ask her to set up a bounce rule with her work email. I can access her work email (that’s how I found out a lot about him) so I can say that since that time a while back he hasn’t messaged her.

Her feelings are another matter. I believe she’s pining for the OM and the excitement of the clandestine relationship.

I know some things about him. I know where he lives, I know where he works, I know about his life in some detail. I know that he has a physical handicap (that I will not describe) etc etc. My wife has a sense of admiration for him. Therefore any act like exposing him would be seen as aggressive behavior on my part and out of sympathy for him she would only want to get away from me. No. I’m not going after him.

Right now I need to bide my time UNLESS he moves on her again. Then I’ll be coming in with more severe demands (but presented oh-so-sweetly).

In the past week or so things seem to have calmed down a bit. Maybe I’m misreading the situation but I think things are on a slight upswing so that would confirm that the OM is not in touch with her.

So...
Assuming there is NC between my wife and the OM, what signs are there to tell me that her fog is lifting? I can't expect her to walk up to me and say"ok honey, I'm seeing everything clearly now".

In the last few days, she I sense more warmth, and I get the feeling that she's thinking about him less.....but I could be totally wrong.

We've talked about seeing marriage counseling but I don't want to go into that pre-maturely.

Anyone with some experience ?????

Ok here's my update.

We had another wonderful weekend. On Friday we started our beginers Ballroom dancing class (1hr). It was a riot! We were both unsure whether not only that we might not like it but that we might trip all over each other. My wife really got into it and no, we didn't step all over each others feet. I unfortunately had to go do something work related (I was dying not to). I dropped her off at home and I saw her pick up some of the MB 'concepts' pages I had printed out. I was happy she finally started to read them. When I got back home she was tired and ready to sleep. I didn't bring up the MB info, I could tell that she wasn't ready to talk about it...but she also didn't react against it.

Saturday morning, after breakfast we went for a hike in the local hills. This was also very enjoyable. I can see just how much my wife likes these activities and how I neglected to do them with her before the affair. The afternoon had us doing some work around the house (she also had some work she had brought home) before we were invited to dinner at close friends. Sunday morning, after breakfast we both went for a 2hr bike ride, again fun and healthy. More chores were on the agenda but in the late afternoon we went into town to buy a platter of sushi to take home. The sushi needed at least a half hour to prepare fresh and so we dropped into a nearby pub for a drink. We talked for over 45 minutes, about the pubs interesting local, photography, then she mentioned she might like to take a trip to NYC in a November. I indulged that notion and told her I'd love to.
We ended the night in bed watching a very interesting historical documentary. We always say goodnight with a kiss (no, not the super passionate kind, but on the lips at least).

What intrigues me and confuses me is that a week ago I asked her if I could have her commitment to try and rebuild our marriage. I asked her that I just wanted to know if she was willing to try and discover her feelings for me again, not that I expected some kind of promise nor guarantee, just if she was really willing to TRY.

She couldn’t answer me but a few days ago it came up and she said that she didn’t know if she could commit herself to that but that she was committed “to the family”.
My kids are teenagers but they still rely on us for guidance etc.

What I want to know is how can I in her mind be divorced from “the family” ?????
I am part and parcel of that family just like she is. I want her back with me emotionally but I can’t imagine our family without her. How can she be ‘committed’ to “the family” and not be committed to trying to re-build with me, her husband and the father of her children????

Any help is appreciated.

Your wife needs to find a new job.

She cannot remain in a job where she can have even incidental contact with OM. NC is NC for LIFE.

She does need to change her email/cell phone/etc... to prevent OM from contacting her in any way.

This has drug on this long BECAUSE of that intermittent contact. She KNOWS he's still interested in her, still pursuing her...and that all counts as contact.

And to answer your question about her "parceling you out"...that's typical wayward fog. Don't pay any attention to it.

Work your plan to rebuild your marriange. Have you read up on plan A and plan B here? It sounds like you're doing a 'modified' plan A. You're meeting her emotional needs, made the changes in yourself...but you've not exposed to everyone who could influence her to end the affair.

How do you KNOW that she's reporting all of his attempted contacts to you? Do you have anyway to VERIFY her trustworthiness at this point, or are you just relying on what she is telling you?

I think that you should seriously consider counseling...esp with the Harleys. If your wife HAS ended the affair, this is the time to start working a plan for recovery. They can help you figure out what plan to use, and how to implement it.