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The Policy of Radical Honesty

Honesty and Openness is one of the ten most important emotional needs identified in marriage, which means that when it's met, it can trigger the feeling of love. But it's counterpart, dishonesty, is one of the five most destructive Love Busters. When spouses are dishonest, they destroy the love they have for each other.
But there is a third reason that honesty is crucial in marriage. Honesty is the only way that you and your spouse will ever come to understand each other. Without honesty, the adjustments that are crucial to the creation of compatibility in your marriage cannot be made. Without honesty, your best efforts to resolve conflicts will be wasted because you will not understand each other well enough to find mutually acceptable solutions.
Most couples do the best they can to make each other happy, at least for a while. But their efforts, however sincere, are often misdirected. They aim at the wrong target. Ignorance, not lack of effort, is often the most important cause of their ultimate downfall.
Couples are not only ignorant of ways to improve their marriages; they are often ignorant of the problems themselves. To avoid conflict, they sometimes deliberately misinform each other as to their feelings, personal history, activities, and plans. This not only leads to a failure to meet an important emotional need, and a withdrawal of love units when the deception is discovered, it also makes marital conflicts impossible to resolve. After all, how can you and your spouse solve a problem if your cards are not on the table?
To help you understand how honest you need to be to have a successful marriage, I have written the Policy of Radical Honesty. I call it "radical" because that's how many see my position on the subject. But I view my policy as simply advocating complete honesty in marriage. In our culture I guess that's a radical idea.
The Policy of Radical Honesty
Reveal to your spouse as much
information about yourself as you know;
your thoughts, feelings, habits, likes,
dislikes, personal history, daily activities,
and plans for the future.
To help explain this policy, I have broken it down into four parts:
1. EMOTIONAL HONESTY: Reveal your emotional reactions, both positive and negative, to the events of your life, particularly to your spouse's behavior.
2. HISTORICAL HONESTY: Reveal information about your personal history, particularly events that demonstrate personal weakness or failure.
3. CURRENT HONESTY: Reveal information about the events of your day. Provide your spouse with a calendar of your activities, with special emphasis on those that may affect your spouse.
4. FUTURE HONESTY: Reveal your thoughts and plans regarding future activities and objectives.
To some extent this policy seems like motherhood and apple pie. Who would argue that it's not a good idea to be honest? But in my years of experience as a marriage counselor, I have constantly struggled with the belief of many clients that dishonesty can be a good idea under certain conditions. Moreover, pastors and counselors themselves often advise dishonesty when a spouse has committed a particularly thoughtless act, such as infidelity. And many marital therapists warn against complaining, something that some consider one of the seven deadly sins of marriage. So instead of complaining, spouses often stuff their feelings and try to put a good face on a bad situation.
Granted, dishonesty can be a good short-term solution to marital conflict. It will probably get you off the hook for a few days or months or keep the problem on the back burner. But it's a terrible long-term solution. If you expect to live with each other for the next few years and still be in love, dishonesty can get you into a great deal of trouble.
Because there are so many out there who advocate dishonesty in marriage, I will describe the four parts of my Policy of Radical Honesty, and explain to you why I think they are so important in marriage.


The Policy of Radical Honesty
Emotional Honesty
Reveal your emotional reactions, both
positive and negative, to the events of your life,
particularly to your spouse's behavior.
Some people find it difficult to openly express negative reactions. They may fear that their response will be interpreted as criticism. Or they may feel ashamed of their own reactions, telling themselves they should not feel the way they do. They may want unconditional acceptance from their spouses and consider that their negative reactions prove their own inability to be unconditionally accepting. Whatever the reasons, many spouses try to avoid expressing their negative emotional reactions.
While positive reactions are easier to communicate, many couples have not learned to express these feelings, either. This failure not only misses an important opportunity to accurately communicate basic feelings, but it also misses an opportunity to deposit love units. Whenever your spouse has made you feel good, if you express those feelings clearly and enthusiastically, you'll reward your spouse for having made an appropriate adjustment to you. That, in turn, makes your spouse feel good.
If you want to meet each other's emotional needs, and you want to overcome Love Busters, one essential ingredient is an honest expression of your emotional reactions to each other. What makes a marriage successful is your willingness and ability to accommodate each other's feelings. And without the facts about those feelings, an otherwise happy couple can become very unhappy as the events of life change.
The conditions that existed at the time of your marriage were partly responsible for the love you had for each other. Those conditions made it easy for you to meet each other's emotional needs, and tended to ward off Love Busters. They may have made you feel perfect for each other, because you did not have to do much to make each other happy.
But if you are like most couples, those conditions changed right after your marriage and have continued to change right up to the present. If you have not been able to adjust to those changes, you are probably very disillusioned about your compatibility. What had seemed effortless at first may seem impossible for you now.
But adjustment in marriage is not impossible. In fact, it may be quite a bit easier than you think. Because of the way your brain is put together, you have the ability to make remarkable adjustments to each other throughout life, as your environment changes. But in order to be successful, you must do four things:
First, you must realize that these changes will take place, whether you want them to or not. Many of the circumstances surrounding you cannot be controlled and will be changing constantly.
Second, you must stick to your goal of meeting each other's most important emotional needs, and avoiding Love Busters regardless of the change in conditions. A change can be very distracting, and can cause both of you to lose sight of your primary objectives in life. Don't let these changes cause you to lose sight of each other.
Third, you must be totally committed to making all of your decisions jointly and enthusiastically. Changes in circumstances require new decisions, and each must be made with each other's feelings in mind. Otherwise, the changes will leave one of you in the dust. Don't go on in life unless you are both on board.
And finally, in order to make the best decisions, you must be radically honest with each other about your emotional reactions to the changes in your lives. The best decisions take the emotional reactions of both of you into account simultaneously, but without an honest expression of those reactions, you will be missing the target.
While some couples may fail to make a successful adjustment after feelings are honestly explained, failure is almost guaranteed when the need for adjustment is never communicated. Always take each other's complains seriously. As I mentioned earlier, your emotional reactions are a gauge of whether you are making a good adjustment to each other. If you both feel good, you need no adjustment. If one or both of you feel bad, a change is indicated.
But let me also explain what honesty is not. It is not selfish demands or disrespectful judgments or angry outbursts.
Expressing a feeling is not the same as expressing demands. If you try to tell your spouse what to do, you are not revealing an honest feeling; you are making a demand. If your spouse does something that bothers you, the correct way to express it is simply say that it bothers you. The Policy of Joint Agreement would take over from that point to help you try to resolve the problem.
If you tell your spouse that he or she is wrong about something, you're not being honest, you are being judgmental. While you should be free to express your beliefs and opinions, you should respect your spouse's beliefs and opinions. If you try to "straighten out" your spouse, you are not being honest; you are making a disrespectful judgment. The expression of feeling should not carry judgmental baggage with it.
It goes without saying that angry outbursts are not expressions of honesty, either. When people have them, they often think that they are being honest, but that's their Taker trying to rationalize what is actually cruel and destructive. Whatever it is you have to say when you are angry is not worth saying. Keep that basic principle in mind so that you will keep your mouth shut when you feel angry. When you have recovered from your anger, it's safe to tell your spouse what was bothering you.
Failure to express negative feelings perpetuates the withdrawal of love units. It prevents a resolution to a marital conflict, because the conflict is not expressed. Negative feelings provide evidence that a couple has not yet achieved a successful marital adjustment. More work is needed.
But positive feelings not only offer proof for a successful adjustment, but they also provide a reward to the spouse that has been successful. Don't neglect to tell each other how you feel when you are happy.
Now we're ready to look at the second part of this Policy of Radical Honesty. This part faces the reality that history often repeats itself.


The Policy of Radical Honesty
Historical Honesty
Reveal information about your personal
history, particularly events that
demonstrate personal weakness or failure.
Whenever you and your spouse make a decision together or try to resolve a conflict with the Policy of Joint Agreement, one factor that must never be ignored is your past. That's because mistakes and successes of the past often provide evidence of what's likely to happen in the future.
While many people feel that embarrassing experiences or serious mistakes of the past should be forgotten, most psychologists recognize that these are often signs of present weakness. For example, if someone has ever had an affair, he may be vulnerable to another one. If someone has ever been chemically dependent, he is vulnerable to drugs or alcohol abuse in the future. By expressing past mistakes openly, your spouse can understand your weaknesses, and together you can avoid conditions that tend to create problems for you.
No area of your life should be kept secret. All questions asked by your spouse should be answered fully and completely with periods of poor adjustment in your past given special attention. Not only should you explain your past to your spouse, but you should also encourage your spouse to gather information from those who knew you before you met your spouse. I have encouraged couples that are considering marriage to meet with several significant people from each other's past. It's often a real eye-opener!
I carry this Policy of Radical Honesty about your past all the way to the disclosure of all premarital and extramarital sexual relations. That's because those experiences are among your most important experiences in life, and your spouse should know anything you regard as important. Past sexual experiences also create a contrast effect in marriage, and it's inevitable that you will compare your spouse sexually with all other past sexual relationships. Knowing your sexual history can make present sexual problems much easier to understand.
I've had clients argue that if they tell their spouses about mistakes made decades earlier, their spouses will be crushed and never trust them again. Why not just leave that little demon alone?
My answer is that it's not a "little demon." If you've had an affair, it's an extremely important part of your personal history, and it says something about your predispositions. If you've had an affair in the past, your spouse shouldn't trust you -- I certainly wouldn't.
But what if you haven't strayed since it happened? What if you've seen a pastor regularly to hold you accountable? Why put your spouse through the agony of a revelation that could ruin your relationship forever?
I'd say you don't give your spouse much credit! Honesty does not drive a spouse insane -- dishonesty does. People in general, and women in particular, want to know exactly what their spouses are thinking and feeling. When you hold something back, your spouse tries to guess what it is. If he or she is right, then you must continually lie to cover your tracks. If he or she is wrong, an incorrect understanding of you and your predispositions develops.
Maybe you don't really want to be known for who you are? That's the saddest position of all. You'd rather keep your secret than experience one of life's greatest joys -- to be loved and accepted in spite of your weaknesses.
Some counselors have argued that the only reason people reveal past infidelity is because of anger. They are deliberately trying to hurt their spouses with that information. Or they might be doing it to relieve their own guilt at the expense of their spouse's feelings.
While it's true that the spouse usually feels hurt, and vengeance or feelings of guilt motivate some, whenever correct information is revealed, an opportunity for understanding and change is presented. That opportunity is more important than unhealthy motives or momentary unhappiness.
Some revelations may need to be made in the presence of a professional counselor to help control the emotional damage. Spouses sometimes have difficulty adjusting to revelations that have been kept secret for years. In many cases, they're not reacting to the revelation as much as the fact that they'd been lied to all that time.
Some spouses with emotional weaknesses may need personal counseling to help them adjust to the reality of their spouses' past. The saints they thought they married turn out to be not so saintly. But the most negative reactions to truth that I've witnessed have never destroyed a person or a marriage. It's dishonesty that destroys intimacy, the feeling of love, and marriages.
When a couple first see me for counseling, I have them complete my Personal History Questionnaire, which systematically reviews many of the significant events of their past. I ask them to share their answers with each other and feel free to ask any questions that would be triggered by them.
I offer you the same opportunity to investigate each other's past. I have posted that questionnaire for you to copy and complete. Simply click the name of the questionnaire in the previous paragraph and be sure to make two copies, one for both of you. Leave nothing out and be willing to pursue any line of inquiry that will help you better understand each other's past.


The Policy of Radical Honesty
Current Honesty
Reveal information about the events of your
day. Provide your spouse with a calendar
of your activities, with special emphasis on
those that may affect your spouse.
After six years of marriage, Ed discovered that it was easier to have a sexual relationship with a woman at the office than with his wife, Jennifer. As a result, he found Peggy a welcome solution to his sexual frustration. He spent time alone with her several times a week, and their sexual relationships was as fulfilling as he could have ever imagined.
Ed justified this infidelity by assuming he was doing Jennifer a favor by not imposing his sexual requirements upon her. Whenever Jennifer wanted to make love to him, he happily accommodated her, but she didn't feel a sexual need more than once or twice a month.
Ed didn't want to share information about his daily activities with Jennifer, since honesty would have ruined any hope of continuing this very satisfying solution. Moreover, the announcement of this relationship would have upset her. He still loved her very much and would not have wanted to put her through the grief of such a disclosure. So to preserve a temporary solution to his problem and to keep Jennifer from experiencing intense emotional pain, he felt that dishonesty was justified.
In good marriages, couples become so interdependent that sharing a daily schedule is essential to their coordination of activities. But in weak marriages, couples are reluctant to provide their schedules, because they are often engaged in an assortment of Love Busters. They may know that their spouses would object to their activities, so they tell themselves, What they don't know won't hurt them. They have what I call a "secret second life."
But there are many who really have nothing to hide; yet they feel the need for privacy. They are offended when their spouse asks where they've been or what they've done. They feel that their spouse should trust them, and not assume the worst.
I'm dead-set against privacy in marriage, because it creates an unnecessary barrier to problem solving. When you and your spouse married, two became one. That means that prior to marriage, you had no one but yourself to consider when you made choices, and now you have each other to consider. There should be no part of your life that is off limits to your spouse, because literally everything that either of you do will ultimately affect each other. Privacy breeds incompatibility because it represents a part of your life that is off limits to accommodation.
Even when activities are innocent, it's extremely important for your spouse to understand what you do with your time. Be easy to check up on and find in an emergency. Give each other your daily schedules so you can communicate about how you spend your time. Since almost every thing you do will affect your spouse, it is important to explain what it is you do.
If Jennifer and Ed had established a habit of exchanging daily information early in their marriage, his affair would have been almost impossible to arrange. And if they had negotiated with the Policy of Joint Agreement, his sexual problem would have been addressed and resolved.
Honesty is a terrific way to protect your spouse from potentially damaging activities. By knowing that you'll be telling your spouse what you've been up to, you're far less likely to get either of you into trouble.


The Policy of Radical Honesty:
Future Honesty
Reveal your thoughts and plans regarding
future activities and objectives.

After having made such a big issue of revealing past indiscretions, you can imagine how I feel about revealing future plans. They're much easier to discuss with your spouse, yet many couples make plans independently of each other.
Some couples don't explain their plans because they don't want to change them, even if their spouses express negative reactions. They feel that explaining a future plan may prepare the evening for war, and their spouses will successfully scuttle the plan.
Some don't explain their future plans because they don't think their spouses would be interested. There's nothing upsetting about the plan, so there'd be no point in revealing it.
But even if your plans are innocent, when you fail to tell your spouse your future plans, you're being dishonest. You don't really know what your spouse's reaction will be, and by failing to give advance notice, you may create a problem for the future. Besides, if you and your spouse are partners in life, your plans are important to both of you, whether your spouse feels that way or not.
You may feel your plans are best for both you and your spouse. Once your spouse sees the plan succeed, he or she will be grateful that you went ahead with it. Or, you may feel that if you wait for your spouse's approval, you will never accomplish anything. Perhaps your spouse is so conservative that if you wait for his or her approval, you think you'll miss every opportunity that comes your way.
Regardless of how you feel about revealing your plans, failure to do so will leave your spouse in the dark. While no love units are withdrawn at the time you're deceitful, they're almost sure to be withdrawn when your spouse realizes you've held back information. It also sets up the loss of more love units if your plans fails to take your spouse's feelings into account.
How many hours of waking time to you have at your disposal? Do you schedule any or all of that time? Do you and your spouse share your weekly schedules with each other before you commit yourselves to that time?
Since your schedule each week is part of your future plans, every hour you schedule should be discussed with your spouse before you firm them up. I suggest that every Sunday afternoon at 3:30, you and your spouse set aside one-half hour to go over your schedules for the coming week. That way you will not only know what each of you is doing that week, but you will have an opportunity to change any part of the schedule.
Of course, it would make sense for you to discuss your schedule on a daily basis, so that each new item could be reviewed as it comes along. But the reason that I suggest a final review on Sunday afternoon, is to get you into the habit of giving each other a chance to veto anything in either of your schedules that does not have your enthusiastic agreement. Get used to the idea that you simply cannot do something that your spouse does not like. And give your spouse an opportunity to react to whatever it is you are planning to do.
Now we will switch gears. So far, I have introduced Basic Concepts that help you make Love Bank deposits (Emotional Needs) and help you avoid making Love Bank withdrawals (Love Busters). But there is another topic that no couple should ever ignore, and that's how to negotiate. You already know that you can't make demands to get what you want. And you can't be disrespectful or angry. What's left?
What's left is thoughtful and respectful negotiation. Once you become skilled negotiators, you will not only find real solutions to your problems, but the very process of finding those solutions will be enjoyable for both of you.
But before I show you how to become skilled negotiators, I will show you why negotiating can be so tough in marriage.


Husband was unfaithful to me before and after our marriage, at least 7 times. I found out 13 yrs into the marriage. Trickle truth for an entire year. Several different d-days, so it was more like a d-year. Difficult recovery.



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RLT,

Ask him to start his own thread here. I understand what this feels like for you. I had every bit of progress I had made toward recovery ripped away from me in the blink of a eye just a few months ago. And why, so Skirmisher could feel like a tough guy to one of his friends.

He didn't feel very tough at all when I asked him to leave and he realized that he wouldn't be able to live on his freelance income. He ended up contacting a friend to ask for a job, which, BTW went no where. This so called friend hasn't even contacted him to see how he is doing.

Looking back, if Skirmisher hadn't listened and learned from the responses on his thread here and if we hadn't done the MC with Jennifer, I honestly believe that I would have filed for divorce by now. And when Skirmisher forlornly said he would have to live in his car, well I felt no pity or concern at all.

Mr. RLT doesn't get it yet, that is pretty clear. And until he gets it, he really has smashed your last hope of recovering. Someone here once said this about my FWH, and I think it fits. Mr. Rlt knows that he is hurting you and he doesn't want to. He just hasn't grasped that even tho the truth would have hurt, it was necessary.

I am so sorry.

Who


I am the BW,
He is the FWH
D-Day: 12/02/03

Recovered
WhoMe #1944364 09/25/07 01:57 PM
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Why is he under the impression that you need to explain yourself to him?

YOU are not the person whose lies and adulteries are creating a series of consequences.

You want and need the truth because you say so.

That is good enough for him or HE isn't good enough for YOU.

This is more manipulation and gaslighting and blameshifting.


Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once ~Shakespeare
WhoMe #1944365 09/25/07 01:59 PM
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I sincerely hope Mr. RLT will thoroughly read through Trueheart's Letter and the policies.

I also hope, per Who's advice, that he start his own thread.

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I sincerely hope he pulls his head out of his colon.

medc #1944367 09/25/07 02:15 PM
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RLT,

I have been following your thread and feel such sadness for you. I recently suffered a short false recovery and my H has since left our home and wants a divorce.

I have one thing to say to your WH:

There is NOTHING more important to a BS than total, complete, full, nothing-left-hiding honesty. It is only then that we can begin to put the pieces that never fit where they belong. It is only then that we can trust OURSELVES because we see how often our gut was right when your words and actions were full of deception. Tell her EVERYTHING. Exhaust yourself in sharing with her all that might be remotely relevant. HIDE NOTHING. Let her make the decision what to do with it. Fall face down on the ground emotionally before your wife and spiritually before your God. Only then, can anything be authentic between the two of you...the three of you...because God is in this marriage, too.

To you RLT, I feel your hurt. I ache for you. I must say, though, that at this moment you now have (for the first time), what I long to have. A H who is going to tell you everything and is willing to back it up with a polygraph. I would listen to everything he is going to share, and then I would BACK IT UP with the test. For the first time, you have the opportunity to have an authentic relationship, or at least the potential for one. Check his motives, check his spirit, check his attitude. I am not that experienced, but I am beginning to understand the idea of entitlement and WS attitude.

You certainly have every right to leave and never look back (as do I). But you also stand in a position that you never have before, empowered with the truth.


Happily married to HerPapaBear



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Mr RLT:

The point of asking her to explain herself to you is so that you can continue to invalidate her wishes and poke holes in her expectations and make her doubt her perceptions.

This is all to protect your ability to have a cake eating lifestyle.

Knock it off.

Accept your consequences.

Man up.

Quit hiding behind your wife trying to get HER to accept the consequences FOR you.

That is wimpy and despicable.


Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once ~Shakespeare
noodle #1944369 09/25/07 02:22 PM
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And don't forget about the no-contact letter you are going to send to OW. By the way, this is done out of respect for your wife, approved by and mailed by her.

There are several example's here, and if needed we can preview as well.

Last edited by weaver; 09/25/07 02:24 PM.
weaver #1944370 09/25/07 02:54 PM
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He did sent a NC letter back in January. But get this, in it, he said something like, "although we haven't seen each other for the past 8 or 9 months, there will be no contact ... blah blah blah.

That was a LIE, guys! They HAD been seeing each other just a couple months BEFORE!!!

So, OW probably knows I MADE him send the letter, and laughs it of as some kind of JOKE!!

What a fool they have both made of me.

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I want that F*** B*** Other Woman to know the TRUTH!!!

And she will. I will let her know it.

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Previous post to Mr. RLT from another poster......

Quote
There is NOTHING more important to a BS than total, complete, full, nothing-left-hiding honesty. It is only then that we can begin to put the pieces that never fit where they belong. It is only then that we can trust OURSELVES because we see how often our gut was right when your words and actions were full of deception. Tell her EVERYTHING. Exhaust yourself in sharing with her all that might be remotely relevant. HIDE NOTHING. Let her make the decision what to do with it. Fall face down on the ground emotionally before your wife and spiritually before your God. Only then, can anything be authentic between the two of you...the three of you...because God is in this marriage, too.


I'd like to add, be humble and not defensive in any way. You have nothing, relevant at this point, to be defensive about. However, RLT does. Let her get her anger out and then let her grieve while you love her through it. Get the book "How Can I Forgive You", by Janis Springs. Don't wait for extra money to come along, or wait for RLT to take care of it, and get this book. Skip you lunch for the next few days and get it please. You can help her tremendously with this book. That is, IF you want to help her.

Quote
To you RLT, I feel your hurt. I ache for you. I must say, though, that at this moment you now have (for the first time), what I long to have. A H who is going to tell you everything and is willing to back it up with a polygraph. I would listen to everything he is going to share, and then I would BACK IT UP with the test. For the first time, you have the opportunity to have an authentic relationship, or at least the potential for one. Check his motives, check his spirit, check his attitude. I am not that experienced, but I am beginning to understand the idea of entitlement and WS attitude.


This is sooooo true.


Husband was unfaithful to me before and after our marriage, at least 7 times. I found out 13 yrs into the marriage. Trickle truth for an entire year. Several different d-days, so it was more like a d-year. Difficult recovery.



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skip the OW for right now. Your H is the one that you should be worrying about...HE is the culprit here....HE deserves your wrath.
Focus on what you want to do and set a plan to make that happen. Your anger is not going to get you anywhere unless you channel it properly...

FOCUS.

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okay, medc. Forget f*** b*** ow for now.

I need to focus. I need energy for this.

mopey, we have that book. I gave it to him, but I don't think he read much of it.

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What a fool they have both made of me.

--------------------


NO! What fools they have made of themselves. The shame is all theirs. I will tell you though rlt, somehow your WH has gotten the impression that he is doing you a favor..."I chose you over her"...when in actuality him not losing you and his family up to this point has been a miracle. His sense of entitlement is obnoxious.

Now he is giong to have to prove his worthiness. Now as Noodle says, he will become a man or slink away in shame. Let's see which it will be.

I shouldn't post here on this thread anymore, as I cannot be gentle. I just don't have it in me, after reading this thread. Sorry rlt.

The others are doing great at it though.

Last edited by weaver; 09/25/07 03:04 PM.
weaver #1944376 09/25/07 03:06 PM
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weaver, I hit him, remember?

It's difficult to be gentle in this situation.

I am trying to be, but it's difficult.

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RLT

I am so so sorry for what you are going through. I dont even know what to say. I am just sick reading this.

Your H was not protecting YOU at all by not coming clean. He was protecting HIMSELF. It was incredibly disresptful of him to attempt to control what you can and cant know, to make decisions based on what HE feels you can handle. The fact that he has been honest NOW even looses some luster because of the *way* his honesty came to be. He was honest ( and I seriously question whether he really has been completely honest) simply because he had no choice.

I am so sorry for you, RLT. You have some very difficult choices to make. Let me say this. Please do not let fear decide for you. You say you are broke and thus, Mr RLT cannot leave? You are not responsible for arranging a comfy place for him to go to He is responsible for his actions and the consequences thereof. IF you want him to leave, so be it. He needs to figure that out.

You cant fix him, RLT. In trying to do so, to "fix" everything for everyone you are allowing the cost to rest squarely upon your own shoulders.

Please please, take care of YOU. Reflect back on your life with him. Is this really want you want? Dont you deserve better? I KNOW you do.


BS: Me, 43
FWH: 50
EA/PA with My Friend Jan-Apr 06
DDay: 4/29/06
NC: email 5/1/06

Recovering
JustKim #1944378 09/25/07 03:17 PM
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Can someone PLEASE try and explain to him that this revelation, though extremely painful, was necessary.

I get the distinct feeling that he thinks if this had never come out, we would be doing great right now. He keeps saying stuff like, he was just trying to restore his family. He came back to us. He chose me over her in the end. It's like he wants a medal or something.

He DOES NOT understand how devestating this lie is. He thinks he was protecting me. I think he actually still thinks that he was doing the right thing by keeping it from me.

Can someone gently, objectively explain to him what this is really all about?

He won't accept it from me.

I'm not sure any amount of explaining, by anyone, will do any good. You explain to and lecture and teach a child. Not a spouse.

You set a boundary -- you've said that you won't accept any more lies. You said it a long time ago.

He believes what he wants to belive -- that lying is acceptable and maybe even neccesary.

So, he chose to lie.

Now you choose to accept it or not.

You can keep doing his job (arranging the lie detector, trying to prove the truth, all the other heavy recovery lifting, etc.) and let him get away with his lying.

Or you can remove yourself from the liar (and all his excuses) and let him face his own consequences and make him do the heavy lifting and fixing of the problems he caused himself.


It's up to you to decide what action to take now. All the explaining and talking in the world isn't going to do you any good when you're both so far apart on what type of behavior is acceptable (lying or not).

AmIok #1944379 09/25/07 03:36 PM
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Can someone PLEASE try and explain to him that this revelation, though extremely painful, was necessary.

This is an opportunity for him to finally purge all the deceit, lies and ugliness from your lives and give YOU an opportunity to make a decision with all the facts Maybe you will leave him. Maybe you wont. The point is - you at least have the ability to make that choice. His actions have paralyzed you and have prevented any real intimacy from ever happening in your marriage.


Quote
I get the distinct feeling that he thinks if this had never come out, we would be doing great right now.

No, HE would be doing great. YOU would be back where you were, feeling like you are slowly going crazy, obsessing - pouring over his comptuer trying to get some shred of proof to back up what your gut was telling you all along

Quote
He DOES NOT understand how devestating this lie is. He thinks he was protecting me. I think he actually still thinks that he was doing the right thing by keeping it from me.

Protecting you from what? From knowing who it is you are married to? For not respecting you enough to even give you the truth? He was protecting HIM.


Quote
Can someone gently, objectively explain to him what this is really all about?

RLT- hon - You dont have to try to fix him. You dont have to focus on making things better for him.


BS: Me, 43
FWH: 50
EA/PA with My Friend Jan-Apr 06
DDay: 4/29/06
NC: email 5/1/06

Recovering
JustKim #1944380 09/25/07 03:48 PM
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RLT,

Why did you not hang up the phone on MrRLT's friend?

He has his opinions. Sounds to me that if you accept him yelling...being forceful with his "shoulds" in your life about your stuff...then you are doing that to yourself...which can show up as you telling yourself you are a fool for having not known what was intentionally hidden from you?

Doesn't make you a fool at all...nor does it make you crazy to have chosen to believe his words...now it's time to not believe his words. See his stuff as his own...his truth, not the truth. Takes a heckuva lot of self-deception to have A's...I know. I lived that way. Doesn't say one darn thing about you at all...says "I lie to myself, therefore I lie to others."

You kicking your own self serves a purpose...a destructive one...it's a pattern...you make different choices, you have a different life experience. Do you know now you can choose to not believe for yourself what your WH says...his stuff as his...don't take it into your own beliefs and make it true...that's your half. Doesn't mean you don't love...you don't believe...there's the difference.

You're getting great advice here...focus on yourself...what you're doing...and not doing. Setting your own boundaries takes the all or nothing out of this situation...which will greatly lessen your fear/pain right now. Breathe.

This isn't all or nothing...it's huge...absolutely...listen to YOURSELF...hear what how you're name-calling inside...isn't real or true, is it? Get to know what you allow and why...then you'll see your right-now with clearer eyes, a steadier heart, 'k?

LA

medc #1944381 09/25/07 04:15 PM
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To answer your question,
At the time of your post, I was on the phone with RLT, asking her what I could do, asking her to please eat, take a walk, to please take care of herself, to call me for anything, then I asked her to put our son (18) on the phone, and asked him to make sure she ate something. That's what I was doing.
Thank you, I appreciate all you are trying to do...


Me-FWH-48
BS-RLT-48
Married 28 years-3 children(S's 20,18&D-14)
In Recovery
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