Well said, Jerry.

JMHO.

Mark

RLT,



And that is for me just about the hardest thing to do. I think it is why Skirmisher chose to keep so much from me. I don't know how I would have reacted on D-day if he would have just told me everything, I might have just gone ahead and divorced.

So, if I can't even now say what I would have done, well as much as I hate to say it....it was as much my fault as his that he didn't want to tell.

It is hard though to learn that the person who you have been married to has really never been faithful to you. Skirmisher "dabbled" in infidelity from before we were married and finally ended up in a full blown affair.

Like you, I trusted him completely, which made it easy for him to lead a secret life. I honestly don't think he ever felt a bit guilty for any of his activities up until his PA in 2003.

Fortunately, I believe he finally sees the damage done and is working hard to be open and honest now.

Who

rlt, I was not going to post this at this time, but I feel I must.

Jerry (I value your opinion but do not agree, not at this time anyway)

How do we judge future behavior rlt? From past behavior. Until such a time that your WH has demonstrated for a good long time, that he is capable of being faithful and honorable, do not soften you heart. He has proven from the time you met him that he is a serial cheater and a liar.

He can change rlt, but it is going to have to be an entire change in character and his entire value system.

Usually it takes great pain and loss to effect a change of this magnitude for a person.

You are not in recovery, nor should you be. You should be in a stage where you are watching and distancing yourself from him until you have every reason to believe that he will not repeat his past behavior. Basically until his past behavior has changed. And this takes time, as Kayla and Mobey and others have said.

Even Pep said, and her husband had one affair, that she told him she would evaluate in six months and see if she wanted to continue in the marriage, and then after that another six months.

I would demand and yes demand a post-nuptial agreement, along with the lie detector test, along with counseling with Steve Harley....before I even considered softening my heart.

You love him rlt, you are hurting, but be smart okay? Do it the smart way. He can change, but you have to change too. You have to toughen up a little bit, until he demonstrates change through actions, and not through words. His words are meaningless and they are toxic at this point. I haven't read his thread because until he proves otherwise (for me at least six months of transparent honesty, remorse, repentence) he is a proven liar.

I'm so sorry to say this, but you can have a good marriage with him again, but he has got to change, and you are going to have to accept NOTHING LESS.

Please call Steve Harley and talk with him as soon as you can. Even if only one time and $185 will not be wasted.

I'm sorry to be so harsh, I don't want to hurt you.

Very sound advice.

RLT, I went to a marriage builder seminar once (not MB unfortunately) but the host and hostess' story stuck with me through the years. HE was the serial cheater and serial liar. She was devastated as you are. After living separate for two years, he finally came to her and asked for forgiveness.

She made it a condition that they sit down and talk. He had ONE final opportunity to come clean with her and to spill the beans... all of them. It took them two days to get through it all. But it wasn't until he came completely clean, no holds barred, and told it all, that they could begin their healing. She told us that it was the most painful experience of her life and it took her a very long, long time to finally forgive and to rebuild any trust. SHE decided to honor her vows, even when HE had stomped all over them and she had every right, even in God's eyes, to send him packing. She credits God with her strength. God can bring you peace and calm in the midst of this storm. You are His child and he cares about you and your breaking heart.

Her husband didn't stop with the telling though. HE was willing and did everything he could to make it right. I imagine had she thought of a polygraph, he would have done that too. HE did the work. They turned their marriage over to God and eventually they healed. Now they are giving seminars together to help others heal.

My point is whether you separate or not (which I agree with Clueless <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> that you shouldn't) if you want this marriage--the lies have to stop now. Whatever you need to prove his truthfulness, he needs to cooperate 110%.

If he's really a true man of God or wants to be now, he'll do whatever you ask to make it right. No more lies. The truth must be told... even if it's painful.

His friend... ugh... he's no friend to your marriage.

thanks, princessmeggy, I hope he reads this one.

He has told me before how he has turned his life over to God, but I don't know how he does this with all these lies still stuck under his hat. What does he think, God will just give a wink at him and let it go?

I am grilling him via email right now. I'm sure he is not liking it. But I agree with everyone else here, that only the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth is going to set him free, and it is the ONLY possible way that we can even think of a recovered marriage.

And yes, I told him straight up, his friend is NO friend to our marriage. The guy meant well, I think. But he just has things all screwed up.

weaver,

I will carefully consider what you said to me.

thanks.

ok THAT'S IT
This Clueless person is about to change their user name from Shinethrough to Clueless.

I think it fits me actually. Much better than shinethrough, as I don't seem to be very sucessful at that lately.

What do you guys think? Is is OK?

All Blessings,
Jerry

Jerry,

No, don't change it. You do Shinethrough.

And you are NOT Clueless.

I wonder what would happen if you sat back and watched him for a while. Quit grilling, quit begging, quit forcing the truth out of him, then sit back and see what HE does.

It might give you an answer pretty fast about whether he's willing to do the work it takes to fix things. I tseems like he ought to be the one doing all the heavy lifting right now, and him making you dig details out of him is just more evidence that's not in his favor.

It seems like that's kind of the point of the in-house separation that you're doing .... giving you a chance to sit back and evaluate and decide if you're willing to stay with him based on what he's willing to do to fix the mess he made.

He knows what the paramaters are and the requirements .... isn't it time for him to show whether he's going to be able to live up to them without making you badger him?

-AmI.

AmI,

I think you are sooo right.

I grilling right now just to be able to help with my line of questioning in the polygraph.

After that, I'll quit with the grilling. But you know, it would be nice if he came to me every so often, WITHOUT the grilling, and just voluntarily give me information, if say, he remembers something. It would be nice if HE would come to me with something.

I am going to sit back here, soon. I will see what he does with his time alone, if he follows through with accountability meetings, posting here, etc.

I know I shouldn't, but in a way I feel sorry for him. In the end, though, if he can manage to pull his head out of his butt and keep it out, he'll be the better man for it.

Jerry - I only took exception to you telling me what I was thinking. Glad you're back. You are of course entitled to your opinion.

Religion can be as superficial as anything else in his life. It can be shoved in a seperate room along with other feelings.

Only his consistant action over time will prove whether he's trustworthy. I don't expect my wife to trust me at this point. I believe she will in the future though.

I'm going to give you a lovely gift wrapped clue...ok..ready..brace yourself.

The digging and begging and grilling...is NOT about information.

The hint is...it's about getting your needs met.

It's about validation.

Are you with me so far or shall we discuss it further?

There was a reason why I suggested that you not have interactions sans third party.

rlt,

I sent you an e-mail. My prayers are w/you.

BK. lest there be any doubt, You< I and MEDC, are on the same page.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Standing, can you resend email? I haven't got it.

Noodle, I know it's really not about information--it's about wanting to know what my life has really been all about. It's about slowly coming to the realization that my husband isn't even close to the person I thought he was. It's about letting go of the illusions.

RLT,
I have been reading your story and there are a few things that struck me. Honestly the first thing that came to me was your husband is bipolar. That may be way off base but knowing several bipolar people it just reminded me of them. There is a pattern here and there has to be something to it. It ISN'T you, he has serious issues he needs to deal with. Then the other thing that sticks out is that most (maybe all?) affairs happened while you were pregnant. Something about you being pregnant triggered something in him. Again, HIS issues. Is he seeing his own concelor to deal with his issues? If not, this will happen again.

I don't see bipolar with her H at all.

Morning Crap Chronicle from the RLT House.

We had a converstation this morning. We are both VERY distraught. This controlled separation is going to be difficult.

I am having a hard time processing all of the information on past affairs. It almost seems surreal to me.

During our conversation he told me that he had an appt. with a lawyer this morning. He says, among other things, he feared me using his secret cell phone account information (which he is unable to obtain, anyway) and polygraph results against him in divorce court. I told him we live in a no fault state, and that the courts could give a rat's a$$ about his adultery.

But the whole thing just sort of blew my mind. He's the one who put us in the horrible financial position. Now HE is posturing himself? As it stands, in this state, everything is divided straight down the middle, which means I would get half of his "cheating" bills. That's about as unfair as you can get.

It just blew my mind that he got the lawyer appt. He did say he would cancel it.